Thursday 23rd October 2014 (Series 71, Prelim 71)

[James Robinson]

Now it's time for an all-out APTOBATTLE

Enjoy.

Countdown recap for Thursday 23 October 2014.

C1: Champion Jonny Rye (2 wins, 190 points.) An Apterite and Politics & French student at Southampton University, although he's originally from Loughborough, Leicestershire.
C2: Challenger George Ford (Pryn). An Apteforumite and 6th Form student from Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire. He loves anything to do with maths, and his favourite film is the 1998 classic, π.
DC: Susie Dent and Dave Myers.
RR: Rachel Riley.
OT: Other words or solutions.

R01: D N R U E O T G E
R02: S M A I E L R A N
R03: 50, 10, 6, 3, 10, 5. Target: 213.
TTT: AMPARENT - "You don't need to be a parent to show how much you love your sun"
R04: E A V T L R N E A
R05: G D T E A I D A S
R06: 50, 75, 25, 100, 8, 2. Target: 318.
R07: T P T E O A L S O
R08: V T W N A O E K O
R09: 75, 50, 100, 5, 9, 7. Target: 935.
TTT: TOKENBAN - "Think number 10, think brown"
R10: N S U F S E R I C
R11: W H G A E A Y D S
R12: D R P B I O E S C
R13: R S L O E I X T E
R14: 25, 2, 5, 8, 1, 4. Target: 849.
R15: I W A N T P O R K (conundrum)


And now a brief interlude before our main feature:

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Enjoy the show.

Round 1: D N R U E O T G E

Jonny: TONGUED (7)
George: UNDERGO (7)
DC: GRUNTED (7)
OT: DEUTERON (8)
Score: 7–7 (max 8)

A couple of decent 7's to start with today, but there was a darrenic 8 missed by all here.........

A DEUTERON is the nucleus of a deuterium atom, consisting of a proton and a neutron.

Round 2: S M A I E L R A N

Jonny: MINERALS (8)
George: MARINAS (7)
DC: MANLIER (7) MARLINE (7)
Score: 15–7 (max 16)

Jonny takes the first lead with his darrenic MINERALS.

Round 3: 50, 10, 6, 3, 10, 5. Target: 213.

Jonny: 213. ((50 - 10) x 5) + 10 + 3 (10)
George: 213. ((10 - 6) x 50) + 10 + 3 (10)
Score: 25–17 (max 26)

Nothing too tricky for our young guns.

Teatime teaser: AMPARENT -> PERMATAN

Round 4: E A V T L R N E A

Jonny: TAVERNA (7)
George: ETERNAL (7)
DC: RELEVANT (8)
OT: LEVANTER (8) VALERATE (8)
Score: 32–24 (max 34)

Nice 7's, but 8's a missing from the contestants once more...........

A LEVANTER is a strong easterly wind in the Mediterranean region.
VALERATE is a noun derived from valeric acid, another name for pentanoic acid, a colourless liquid fatty acid present in various plant oils, used in making perfumes. (Chemical formula: CH3(CH2)3COOH)

Round 5: G D T E A I D A S

Jonny: -
George: AGISTED (7)
DC: STAGED (6)
Score: 32–31 (max 41)

WOAH! WOAH!! Jonny completely blanks, and George takes full advantage with his darrenic 7, but the gap is still a single point........

Round 6: 50, 75, 25, 100, 8, 2. Target: 318.

Jonny: 318. ((75 / 25) + 50) x (8 - 2) (10)
George: 318. (((100 x 75) + (50 x 8)) / 25) + 2 (10)
Score: 42–41 (max 51)

Well, Jonny does a nice and straightforward method, and then George almost nonchalantly says that he has a different method, and then goes all the way up to 7,900, before coming back down to the target.

Dave talks about his early career as a student of fine arts.

Round 7: T P T E O A L S O

Jonny: PETALS (6)
George: APOSTLE (7)
DC: POTATOES (8)
Score: 42–48 (max 59)

Well, George is now leading the way thanks to his APOSTLE, but it's really spud-u-like for us, as the brilliant POTATOES are available as an 8.

Round 8: V T W N A O E K O

Jonny: AWOKEN (6)
George: NOVATE (6)
DC: TOKEN (5)
Score: 48–54 (max 65)

A 6 apiece for our contestants, and this game is still finely balanced.

Round 9: 75, 50, 100, 5, 9, 7. Target: 935.

Jonny: 935. (100 x 9) + 50 - (75 / 5) (10)
George: 935. (100 x 9) + (7 x 5) (10)
Score: 58–64 (max 75)

Another perfect pair of numbers solves here. Still too tight to call this one, a 6 point lead with 6 rounds left........

Teatime teaser: TOKENBAN -> BANKNOTE

Round 10: N S U F S E R I C

Jonny: FISSURE (7)
George: INFUSES (7)
DC: INFUSERS (8)
Score: 65–71 (max 83)

Ouch, very unlucky there on George's part, as he forgets to stick the R in his INFUSES, for the darrenic 8...........

Round 11: W H G A E A Y D S

Jonny: headways
George: WASHDAY (7)
DC: HEADWAY (7)
Score: 65–78 (max 90)

CONTROVERSY ALERT!!!

Well, George has a good WASHDAY, but Jonny is going headways all over the place, or is he............

Have a judge for yourself: the first meaning is fair enough to rule HEADWAY out of being pluralised, but there's nothing saying the 2nd one can't be, even though Susie says it should say "count noun" before it, but with it saying nothing before it, why can't it be pluralised

Definitely one for the debating board........

Susie's Origins of Words talks about the origins of "stiff drink".

Round 12: D R P B I O E S C

Jonny: PRICED (6)
George: COPIERS (7)
DC: PERIODS (7) CORPSED (7)
OT: PERCOIDS (8)
Score: 65–85 (max 98)

Well, George is starting to pull away thanks to his COPIERS, and a bigger lead would certainly make the HEADWAY/s decision less of a talking point.....

A PERCOID is a fish of a large group that includes the perches, basses, jacks, snappers, grunts, sea breams, and drums.

Round 13: R S L O E I X T E

Jonny: TOILERS (7)
George: LOITERS (7)
OT: ESTOILE (7) LEISTER (7) LOERIES (7) RETILES (7) SEXTILE (7) STERILE (7)
Score: 72–92 (max 105)

Plenty of 7's in this round, but George knows he only needs 1 point to win the game.

A LEISTER is a pronged spear used for catching salmon.
A LOERIE is another term for the turaco and the go-away bird.
In astrology, a SEXTILE is an aspect of 60° (one sixth of a circle).

Round 14: 25, 2, 5, 8, 1, 4. Target: 849.

Jonny: 849. (((8 x 4) + 2) x 25) - 1 (10)
George: 849. (((8 x 5) - 4 - 2) x 25) - 1 (10)
Score: 82–102 (max 115)

Well, a simple 1 large numbers appears, giving the win to George, but to remove all dubiousness about HEADWAY/s, he'll need to make sure that Jonny doesn't get the conundrum........

Round 15: I W A N T P O R K

Jonny buzzes on 16.5 seconds to say PAINTWORK which is correct.
Final Score: 92–102 (max 125)

Well he might want pork, but I wonder if Jonny will feel that there is a sense of injustice in relation to HEADWAY/s. I think that will be debated for ages to come, but for now I want to comment on a fantastic game between 2 talented players.

Jonny was certainly unlucky to be up against George, but he held his own for most of the game, and to only lose by 10 points is more than commendable.

Join Antony tomorrow, for what will hopefully be a less controversial game than today's edition.

I'll be back on Wednesday, and hopefully, so will George.

Till then, have a great weekend, and bye for now.

Statistics Corner

Jonny:
Total score - 92
Raw score - 104
Total % of max - 74
Raw % of max - 83
Total average score per round - 6.1
Raw average score per round - 6.9
Number of maxes - 8

George:
Total score - 102
Raw score - 109
Total % of max - 82
Raw % of max - 87
Total average score per round - 6.8
Raw average score per round - 7.3
Number of maxes - 8

Further summaries are at:
http://cdb.apterous.org/series.php?series=71

[George Pryn]

Whittlesey not Wittering hehe

[James Robinson]

Whittlesey not Wittering hehe

Hehe, couldn't quite hear it when I was watching earlier, so looked up Peterborough, and remember the "Witt" bit, just the wrong one.

But, cheers anyway.

[Gavin Chipper]

Round 11: W H G A E A Y D S

Jonny: headways
George: WASHDAY (7)
DC: HEADWAY (7)
Score: 65–78 (max 90)

Final Score: 92–102 (max 125)

How do people normally deal with DC errors in recaps? I'd base the max on what is "objectively" there, making it 126. In many cases, there are DC beaters that no-one mentioned on the show. How do you know that Susie didn't find the word but silently disallow it to herself? If we are bound by decisions made on the show, we can only really allow what's actually been declared!

[James Robinson]

Round 11: W H G A E A Y D S

Jonny: headways
George: WASHDAY (7)
DC: HEADWAY (7)
Score: 65–78 (max 90)

Final Score: 92–102 (max 125)

How do people normally deal with DC errors in recaps? I'd base the max on what is "objectively" there, making it 126. In many cases, there are DC beaters that no-one mentioned on the show. How do you know that Susie didn't find the word but silently disallow it to herself? If we are bound by decisions made on the show, we can only really allow what's actually been declared!

Since it has been disallowed, I take it out, and HEADWAY and WASHDAY are the only 7's, there are no other beaters.

[Jon Corby]

How do people normally deal with DC errors in recaps? I'd base the max on what is "objectively" there, making it 126.

But surely then you'd have to also award the points to Jonny as well?

It's been said before that while there is no definitive word list, the concept of a max is slightly woolly anyway.

[Gavin Chipper]

How do people normally deal with DC errors in recaps? I'd base the max on what is "objectively" there, making it 126.

But surely then you'd have to also award the points to Jonny as well?

It's been said before that while there is no definitive word list, the concept of a max is slightly woolly anyway.

It is woolly, but think the less clunky approach to the max score is to apply some set rules regarding words rather than use those rules unless the word happens to be declared in which case go by Susie's judgement. The actual score is just what the show awards so you wouldn't give Jonny the points. Also what do you do if as happened quite recently DC declare a singular where it's a mass noun that you would think could be pluralised and there's a spare S? It's not an explicit judgement but it's clear what they think.

[Jon Corby]

The actual score is just what the show awards so you wouldn't give Jonny the points.

Eh? Am I misunderstanding here? So if Jonny maxed every other round, you'd want the records to show that he scored 118/126, but on inspection you'd find that he actually declared the word you're saying he missed?

[Gavin Chipper]

The actual score is just what the show awards so you wouldn't give Jonny the points.

Eh? Am I misunderstanding here? So if Jonny maxed every other round, you'd want the records to show that he scored 118/126, but on inspection you'd find that he actually declared the word you're sayng he missed?

Well, you'd have an asterisk or something saying that dictionary corner messed up, not that he missed it. What would you do in the very unlikely event that the uniquely correct numbers solution was disallowed? What about if HEADWAYS was an available beater in an earlier or later round but no-one spotted it? What if it was in the previous or next game?

[Jon Corby]

The actual score is just what the show awards so you wouldn't give Jonny the points.

Eh? Am I misunderstanding here? So if Jonny maxed every other round, you'd want the records to show that he scored 118/126, but on inspection you'd find that he actually declared the word you're sayng he missed?

Well, you'd have an asterisk or something saying that dictionary corner messed up, not that he missed it. What would you do in the very unlikely event that the uniquely correct numbers solution was disallowed? What about if HEADWAYS was an available beater in an earlier or later round but no-one spotted it? What if it was in the previous or next game?

Correct numbers solutions don't get disallowed you big ninny. If HEADWAYS was an available beater but nobody spotted it, we'd either count it or not depending on whatever dictionary was being used by the recapper. This is the whole point, there is no definitive word list, so the whole max game concept is woolly, because it's whatever Susie* decides at that precise moment in time. She changes her mind from show to show, and is allowed to do so. Deal with it. Without having Susie judge every possible word for every round, we make a best guess. Where she has made a decision though, that has to be included, it's madness not to. You're mad. Mad, I tells you.

* - is it actually Susie's decision, or somebody in her ear? Who has the final say? I've never been clear about this.

[Gavin Chipper]

Correct numbers solutions don't get disallowed you big ninny. If HEADWAYS was an available beater but nobody spotted it, we'd either count it or not depending on whatever dictionary was being used by the recapper. This is the whole point, there is no definitive word list, so the whole max game concept is woolly, because it's whatever Susie* decides at that precise moment in time. She changes her mind from show to show, and is allowed to do so. Deal with it. Without having Susie judge every possible word for every round, we make a best guess. Where she has made a decision though, that has to be included, it's madness not to. You're mad. Mad, I tells you.

* - is it actually Susie's decision, or somebody in her ear? Who has the final say? I've never been clear about this.

Now you've really done it. When you buy my rail ticket for COLIN (thanks in advance for doing that by the way), I'm going to pay you back in individual pennies.

Also with these insults and this display from you, you could be looking at two years in prison sharing a cell with Richard Brittain. Enough time to learn the meanings of ODONTAL, BIOPOT, OMMIT, SALONEEN and GANDISEEG.

But anyway, you're saying that if HEADWAYS was in the recap dictionary and in got disallowed, you wouldn't count it as a max, but then if it was available later in the same game and nobody mentioned it, you would count it?

Also I think it is Susie that makes the decisions. Maybe sometimes Damian says something in her ear if he disagrees, but from the way she says stuff, it seems as though it's her.

[Jon Corby]

But anyway, you're saying that if HEADWAYS was in the recap dictionary and in got disallowed, you wouldn't count it as a max, but then if it was available later in the same game and nobody mentioned it, you would count it?

Nah, the sensible thing to do would be to continue to disallow it until such time that Susie makes another judgement on it and deems it valid. If the recapper remembers, that is.