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Maybe I should be in DC on apterous!
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Moderator: Jon O'Neill
Wait a second - you said it was 4 children last time...!Julie T wrote:(I Home Educate my youngest 3 children BTW, in case you hadn't realised the connection. )
Would your life have been better if you'd been eaten as a child?Charlie Reams wrote:No doubt there are circumstances where it's beneficial, but I can't imagine how greatly impoverished my life would have been if I'd been home educated.
Anyone see that documentary out Britain's smartest kids about 6 months ago? I'm not referring to the most recent one in February this year which was a bit shit.Charlie Reams wrote:No doubt there are circumstances where it's beneficial, but I can't imagine how greatly impoverished my life would have been if I'd been home educated.
Martin Gardner wrote:Kids need as much contact with other kids as they can reasonably get.
I guess that explains why Martin *had* his first girlfriend when he was about seven...Martin Gardner wrote:Kids need as much contact with other kids as they can reasonably get.
Oh fuck off lol.Neil Zussman wrote:I guess that explains why Martin *had* his first girlfriend when he was about seven...Martin Gardner wrote:Kids need as much contact with other kids as they can reasonably get.![]()
Yeah, I watched that documentary - they've done two so far right? There should be another one soon I think, the last one was in March and I think it's every two years. Oh yeah and it had the little asian kid who beat carol at the numbers. Or is that a different one? That woman who used to give her children presents if their child passed their 11+ (lol) and that awesome kid who was obviously the best (think he had a weird name) and yeah that kid who was quite good chess - he was "home-schooled", I think he was the one you mean and he had no friends his own age.Martin Gardner wrote:Anyone see that documentary out Britain's smartest kids about 6 months ago? I'm not referring to the most recent one in February this year which was a bit shit.
LOL!Jon Corby wrote:Wait a second - you said it was 4 children last time...!Julie T wrote:(I Home Educate my youngest 3 children BTW, in case you hadn't realised the connection. )![]()
Philip was bullied (by pupils and staff) and hated school. Robert and Henry do indeed have certain special needs. Although Henry is rapidly overcoming his speech difficulties and is not now officially SEN, Robert's autism and severe learning diffculties will affect him for the rest of his life, barring any miracles.Martin Gardner wrote:Anyone see that documentary out Britain's smartest kids about 6 months ago? I'm not referring to the most recent one in February this year which was a bit shit.Charlie Reams wrote:No doubt there are circumstances where it's beneficial, but I can't imagine how greatly impoverished my life would have been if I'd been home educated.
Some of them were home educated, and what it means is that while they may have an education that's more tailored to their individual needs, they miss out on a lot of important stuff. Obviously the fact that we all need to work with other people, have communication skills, learn to put others first. Kids need as much contact with other kids as they can reasonably get.
Julie, I think we've either discussed this on the forum or on MSN, so I know there are circumstances in your case. I'm not having a go at you - nor am I saying it's always a bad idea. If you have exceptionally bright or slower kids, they can really benefit from it, but I think as a parent you have to make sure that they make friends and have same-age contact outside of school.
IMO.
About as natural as flushing toilets. Do your kids get to use them?Julie T wrote:But really, how natural is it, to be closeted in a classroom with 30 other kids exactly the same age for 6+ hours a day?
Change isn't always for the better, Charlie.Charlie Reams wrote:About as natural as flushing toilets. Do your kids get to use them?Julie T wrote:But really, how natural is it, to be closeted in a classroom with 30 other kids exactly the same age for 6+ hours a day?
I'm with you - do what I can to be 'green' but nothing that compromises good sanitation. What's your washable sanitary protection? (Let's gross out this male dominated forum.Julie T wrote:Indoor flush toilets are hard to beat for efficiency and cleanliness, although I have heard of eco toilets which recycle the waste. Each to their own, but not really my cup of tea. Showering more often than bathing, sharing bath water, and using washable sanitary protection, is as green as I care to go in toileting habits.
I was a really early developer; I could read when I was 4, and was way ahead of everyone else my own age until my early teens when everyone else caught up with me. If I had been home educated, I probably would have done better academically, but what I learned from the kids was so much more valuable than anything I ever learned from a teacher.Martin Gardner wrote:Anyone see that documentary out Britain's smartest kids about 6 months ago? I'm not referring to the most recent one in February this year which was a bit shit.Charlie Reams wrote:No doubt there are circumstances where it's beneficial, but I can't imagine how greatly impoverished my life would have been if I'd been home educated.
Some of them were home educated, and what it means is that while they may have an education that's more tailored to their individual needs, they miss out on a lot of important stuff. Obviously the fact that we all need to work with other people, have communication skills, learn to put others first. Kids need as much contact with other kids as they can reasonably get.
Julie, I think we've either discussed this on the forum or on MSN, so I know there are circumstances in your case. I'm not having a go at you - nor am I saying it's always a bad idea. If you have exceptionally bright or slower kids, they can really benefit from it, but I think as a parent you have to make sure that they make friends and have same-age contact outside of school.
IMO.
Yes, I have a Mooncup, and also some Wemoon pads.Lesley Jeavons wrote:I'm with you - do what I can to be 'green' but nothing that compromises good sanitation. What's your washable sanitary protection? (Let's gross out this male dominated forum.Julie T wrote:Indoor flush toilets are hard to beat for efficiency and cleanliness, although I have heard of eco toilets which recycle the waste. Each to their own, but not really my cup of tea. Showering more often than bathing, sharing bath water, and using washable sanitary protection, is as green as I care to go in toileting habits.) I have a Mooncup. Love it! Long term bargain too.
Heck! Grateful to bullies. Difficult to know where to start on that one.Roxanne wrote:
I was a really early developer; I could read when I was 4, and was way ahead of everyone else my own age until my early teens when everyone else caught up with me. If I had been home educated, I probably would have done better academically, but what I learned from the kids was so much more valuable than anything I ever learned from a teacher.
I was bullied horribly in infants school, and I'm actually grateful to the kids that bullied me. Without them telling me why no one liked me, then I would still be the girl whose only friends were the smelly boy and the girl who ate tissues.
So basically, even with really bright kids, I think the benefits of going to school outweigh the costs.
I definately wouldn't say the same for kids with learning disabilites though; my boyfriend's mum teaches a year 4 class with one girl with downs syndrome, whose parents insist that it's best for her to be in school with normal kids her own age, even though she gains absolutely nothing from being taught that way and the closest thing she has to friends are the kids who have given up trying to stop her from following them around.
Unfortunately Julie, thats just the way it is (things will never be the same, awwwwww yeah)Julie T wrote:Heck! Grateful to bullies. Difficult to know where to start on that one.
I suppose the main point IMHO is that, even if you feel it was a positive experience, encouraging bullying causes emotional and physical pain to lots of kids, even to the extent of suicide.
And not exactly good for the mental health of the bully either.
And why should you have learnt to conform to what others expected of you? Why shouldn't you have been encouraged to find friends who accepted you for who you were?
Yep. Adopting that attitude allows you to stomp around going "hey I'm like totally free-thinking me" while having a totally shit life because you can't interact with other people. Human relationships are about give-and-take and by insisting on always "being yourself", you basically refuse to participate in half of that contract. I know because it took me longer than most people to work this out. The only adult I know who really lives by that moral works as a gardener, because despite his intellect no one can bear to work with him.Dinos Sfyris wrote:The moral "Just be yourself" is probably not the best approach in a lot of social situations, right or wrong as it may be.
Surely neither of them said that. I can relate because I was bullied pretty heavily in school and also ended up being taken out of school. It sort of taught me to be tough and from being an incredibly shy child I became a really outgoing teenager and when we moved house I changed school and basically between the ages of 10 and 19 had a non-stop laugh for 10 years. It's really no contradiction to say that something that's initially negative can have positive consequences later on. I don't think Dinos was taking it lightly, i just think his argument definitely works, and Charlie didn't even mention it, did he?Julie T wrote:So do Dinos and Charlie think that teenagers who commit suicide because of bullying are simply collateral damage?
And bullied children, who get taken out of the situation, often get along fine with a different, less vile, group of children.
Henry, who often used to cry at school, now has loads of friends, some Home Ed, some schooled.
He's very far from a freaky loner.
Delete "simply", I think. There will always be some who can't cope with their environment and there will always be some who are so insecure they can only interact by bullying. Teachers should do more to prevent bullying from escalating, but there is very little they can do now that any attempt at discipline is likely to be termed "abuse" or "assault".Julie T wrote:So do Dinos and Charlie think that teenagers who commit suicide because of bullying are simply collateral damage?
Martin Gardner wrote:between the ages of 10 and 19 had a non-stop laugh for 10 years
Not what I said at all. Suicide is a very serious subject. I certainly don't condone bullying but it's a fact of life. I think its great that there's helplines etc for people traumatised by bullying but you can't just shield a child from it and pretend everything will be ok. They have to know how to deal with it themselves. I'm living proof. After a very sheltered existence at a private primary school I was very much myself but once I got to comp I was very miserable. I'd be constantly tormented by bullies which I'd had little experience with before, because of my hair, the way I spoke, the way I acted. I didn't know how to adapt and just hoped it would eventually stop. Everyday they'd hurl abuse at me or worse, and I was scared and had no idea what to do. It probably didn't help either that I was an only child with no strong male role model. I only wish as a child I'd been more self-aware and that instead of being coddled and told not to retaliate when I was upset, someone had just told me "If someone does that to you again, kick them in the balls." Thats the kind of advice kids need. Show a bully you won't take it and they'll back off.Julie T wrote:So do Dinos and Charlie think that teenagers who commit suicide because of bullying are simply collateral damage?
I was counting inclusively!Kai Laddiman wrote:Martin Gardner wrote:between the ages of 10 and 19 had a non-stop laugh for 10 years
I thought you had given up with the jokes.
That's such a poor argument. It's like saying "JulieT drives a car, so does she think that people who get run over are simply collateral damage?" Whatever course of action you take, bad things will happen to someone. You have to weigh up the numbers.Julie T wrote:So do Dinos and Charlie think that teenagers who commit suicide because of bullying are simply collateral damage?
You were fat in school? I find that really hard to visualise.Michael Wallace wrote:I managed to avoid being bullied at school, despite being fat, having (really) thick glasses, and being clever.
because who I was, was a completely tactless, insensitive, selfish, self-centred, greedy, intolerant, boastful, bitchy, snobbish, smarmy, smartarse teacher's pet who lashed out at people and threw epic tantrums whenever I didn't get my way. I don't think it's any great tradgedy that I conformed to society's expectations of trying to be a nicer person.Julie T wrote: And why should you have learnt to conform to what others expected of you? Why shouldn't you have been encouraged to find friends who accepted you for who you were?
I found that a cure for being bullied was a punch on the nose. I also found that when you get hit, it doesn't hurt till long afterwards.Charlie Reams wrote:You were fat in school? I find that really hard to visualise.Michael Wallace wrote:I managed to avoid being bullied at school, despite being fat, having (really) thick glasses, and being clever.
This might help.Charlie Reams wrote:You were fat in school? I find that really hard to visualise.Michael Wallace wrote:I managed to avoid being bullied at school, despite being fat, having (really) thick glasses, and being clever.
Whats that in your paws raccoon boy?Michael Wallace wrote:This might help.
That certainly is one unhappy raccoon.Michael Wallace wrote: This might help.