Good idea for a variant?

[Ben Wilson]

The fact my previous ideas have been shit (with the exception of Hydra, which I still think would be fun) hasn't deterred me any...

Hyperomelette mark 2

As you'd expect, you'd pick between 4 and 6 or between 5 and 7 letters each turn... the catch is that you must use them all the letters- even if they're not in the same word.
For example, HEZF can become HAZE and OF. Normal stepdown omelette scoring applies (the fewer letters the better) but all letters in the selection MUST be used. The round is automatically forfeited if time runs out and there aren't words using all the letters. Obviously, the minimum number of letters used= 10 points.

Can involve strategy- PVVM can become SEMPERVIVUM in regular omelette, but in hyper omelette can become PERV and VIM or VIVE and MOP.

I can imagine this being a bitch to code but hey, Charlie's always asking for new non-YAKBV ways to play the game, right?

Numbers and conundrum are same as omelette but hyperised, something which is IMHO long overdue anyway.

Secondly...

Funky Numbers

You pick 8 numbers. The three large ones are 15, 20 and 25, and the small ones are 1, 10 and anything inbetween... including fractions, namely eighths and sixths, so a selection could look like '25, 20, 8, 9 1/2, 7 3/4, 3 5/6, 4 2/3, 3 3/8.' Targets can be 100-1999 inclusive, and you may only declare integers (scoring would be as normal). One additional twiddle I thought for this would be to ensure that if you any space that would be filled by a large number in a 3-large pick would be replaced by an integer (like the sample selection with the 8 replacing the 15).

For once, I may actually be onto something here. Needless to say, both of these variants will be included in the pot for the COLIN exhibition game.

[Mark James]

Actually this probably isn't a very good idea but how about a variant where the letters that weren't used to make the winning word carry over to the next round?

[Liam Tiernan]

Actually this probably isn't a very good idea but how about a variant where the letters that weren't used to make the winning word carry over to the next round?

I think that variant already exists. It's called ScrabbleTM

[Steve Balog]

How about a Prisoner's Dilemma variant where if the players offer the same word, they both get zero.

Maybe extending on this -- for letters, if both people declare the same word, only the person who found it faster (typed it in the "enter your words" box) gets points. Or, perhaps this can go for the same length -- first player who got a valid word of that length gets points.

Numbers -- Same idea, only the faster solve gets the points: You'd push the end early button to "declare" a solve like in the conundrum (the input box pops up immediately), and only the first person to get the target gets points. Same for 1, 2, etc. off. If you "declare" one-off, etc. You'd still get the input window immediately but the other player would essentially get the full time to get it spot on.

Conundrums already work like this, so there's no point in changing it

[Mark James]

How about a call my bluff style of game. In round one player one finds a word from the selection and declares the word length x which may or not be the actual length of the word they found. Player two then has to say whether they think the length of the word is +, - or = x If player two guesses right they get they points otherwise player one scores. Round two it's roles reversed. For numbers games player one would declare either exactly, within five or within ten and player two would have to call it. Conundrums would just be normal.

[Ryan Taylor]

How about a call my bluff style of game. In round one player one finds a word from the selection and declares the word length x which may or not be the actual length of the word they found. Player two then has to say whether they think the length of the word is +, - or = x If player two guesses right they get they points otherwise player one scores. Round two it's roles reversed. For numbers games player one would declare either exactly, within five or within ten and player two would have to call it. Conundrums would just be normal.

I think Charlie's said before somewhere that he likes new variants to reach out into areas of the lexicon that others don't, which this variant wouldn't. The idea's cool as a little extra game but it would be nothing more than a bit of fun.

[Joseph Krol]

How about a call my bluff style of game. In round one player one finds a word from the selection and declares the word length x which may or not be the actual length of the word they found. Player two then has to say whether they think the length of the word is +, - or = x If player two guesses right they get they points otherwise player one scores. Round two it's roles reversed. For numbers games player one would declare either exactly, within five or within ten and player two would have to call it. Conundrums would just be normal.

I think Charlie's said before somewhere that he likes new variants to reach out into areas of the lexicon that others don't, which this variant wouldn't. The idea's cool as a little extra game but it would be nothing more than a bit of fun.

With this in mind, why not make one where the letter frequencies are inverse, e.g. 5 Es, 12 Us, 10 Qs, etc. Or would this just fail?

[Steve Balog]

every other round being QZUUXQAIC would be fun

Every letter having an equal chance might be a bit better: from what I can tell there's a bunch of words that can't come up in a normal game, if the goal is to hit "new" parts of the dictionary.

[Jordan F]

This might be hard to do, but had an idea in my head for something called Multi. How this would work is that during the letters round, your goal would be to declare as many valid words as possible in 30 seconds, and you can declare any length from one to nine. If you get any incorrect words however, your entire selection is invalid, and you would still score the same per round. Numbers would be TBD, possibly that you get all unique numbers and can use each number as many times as you want. For the conundrum, they would be conundrums with two possible solutions, and you have to declare both. Again, rough idea, very well might not form into anything.

[Mark James]

This might be hard to do, but had an idea in my head for something called Multi. How this would work is that during the letters round, your goal would be to declare as many valid words as possible in 30 seconds, and you can declare any length from one to nine. If you get any incorrect words however, your entire selection is invalid, and you would still score the same per round. Numbers would be TBD, possibly that you get all unique numbers and can use each number as many times as you want. For the conundrum, they would be conundrums with two possible solutions, and you have to declare both. Again, rough idea, very well might not form into anything.

Hmm, sounds familiar:

How about a variant like boggle where you have a minute to find as many words form the selection of nine letters as you can. Points are awarded for length of word, say 1 point for 3,4 and 5 letter words, 2 for 6 and 7 letters, 3 for 8 and 5 for 9. If both contestants declare the same words they're cancelled out and score zero(except for 9's maybe?).

I do like your idea though that all your words become invalid if you declare an incorrect word. And the two possible conundrums is good too. However using a number as many times as you want doesn't work. You can just make a one and then continuously add it on till you get to the total.

[Jordan F]

Had not thought of that with the numbers, that's a good point. Numbers by far would be the hardest thing to do with this, all of the ideas in my head, including now that one, seem to be at not a reasonable level.

[Peter Mabey]

You can just make a one and then continuously add it on till you get to the total.

A possibility is to be restricted to at most six numbers, so if you want to use one twice, you'd have to omit another.














You could only

[Lesley Hines]

I've been pondering this for a while: what about a completely anarchical numbers format where you can use decimals and exponentials etc. to be able to get to the target? So if you've got a 2 there's also a ^ function for squaring numbers, and if you're as dim as me and often try to enter a *3/4 sequence out of order (or similar) you can still use the x.75 intermediary as long as the final result is correct.

[Mark Deeks]

An otherwise conventional 15 rounder variant that has no E's in the deck.

[Steve Balog]

For now, one can play Hyperletters attacks and just agree to pick 6 vowels and not declare any words with Es in them which is kind of close.

Like, you might have some rounds with more letters but it still hits that part of the dictionary.

[Ben Wilson]

Octogoat.

Has the advantage of also having eight letters like Octorock.

[Charlie Reams]

Octogoat.

Has the advantage of also having eight letters like Octorock.

All these things will happen eventually, it's just a question of rolling them out gradually so they don't get boring, and occasionally figuring out something interesting to do with the numbers.

[Ben Wilson]

Latest idea- Apterous 'Fusion', basically combining elements of lockdown and aegilops.

In letters rounds, you pick 11 letters, but the catch is that letters 2 & 3 and 9 & 10 are 'fused', basically meaning if used in a word they must be used in the order in which they came out or not at all. For example, the selection V E R M U E P S V I M would yield the 11 letter SEMPERVIVUM, whilst the selection V E R M U I P S V E M wouldn't.

In numbers, you get seven numbers, but numbers 6 & 7 are fused (the distribution of numbers would be the same as the standard variant). For example, 100 2 3 5 7 4 2 would become 100 2 3 5 7 42.

Conundrums would basically be as they are always- letters rounds with unique 11-letter solutions.

This is similar to what my much-hyped and endlessly-scrapped 'funky' variant would have been, only less shit.

[Hugh Binnie]

Latest idea- Apterous 'Fusion', basically combining elements of lockdown and aegilops.

This sounds awesome.

[Andy Platt]

Will apterous ever incorporate team games into the interface (whether it be 2v2, 3v3 etc, or even an 'expert challenge' style system where several low rated players would team up to take on a single high rated player)?

Probably a bitch to program, like, and there would be lots of things to consider in advance (letters & numbers scoring, conundrum logistics, player limits, use of bots, how players and teams are picked, teamchat windows, how to handle disconnections, etc... stuff I'd certainly be willing to sit down and think about further, btw, if the apto management is interested...), but it does seem to be a pretty popular idea among other players.

[Charlie Reams]

Will apterous ever incorporate team games into the interface (whether it be 2v2, 3v3 etc, or even an 'expert challenge' style system where several low rated players would team up to take on a single high rated player)?

Probably a bitch to program, like, and there would be lots of things to consider in advance (letters & numbers scoring, conundrum logistics, player limits, use of bots, how players and teams are picked, teamchat windows, how to handle disconnections, etc... stuff I'd certainly be willing to sit down and think about further, btw, if the apto management is interested...), but it does seem to be a pretty popular idea among other players.

I can't say never but it's unlikely. It would require such a huge overhaul of the server, client, database and website that it would be virtually a whole new game to write, apart from all the difficult conceptual problems that you've highlighted already. If only I'd thought of it three years ago, ho hum. There are some, let's say, more collaborative features in the pipeline which will hopefully scratch that itch amongst the player base.

[Adam Gillard]

Will apterous ever incorporate team games into the interface (whether it be 2v2, 3v3 etc, or even an 'expert challenge' style system where several low rated players would team up to take on a single high rated player)?

I can't say never but it's unlikely. It would require such a huge overhaul of the server, client, database and website that it would be virtually a whole new game to write

If people are really itching for multiplayer games, then they could do the unthinkable and actually meet apterous people in real life for a game. I played a game in the bar at the Ramada Manchester Piccadilly against the 3 Pendletons and a Barnes at the next table. Alternatively (this doesn't involve meeting people in real life), people could decide upon teams in the apterous main chat, then one person could challenge a person from the other team to a practice game (or a rated game if no-one involved is too fussy about their ratings). Each team could confer in their own private chat window. You could even make it 40s per round or something if you think more time is needed for conferring. The main problem with this as I see it is that it would require honesty from both teams as to who exactly is playing. Might try it now to see if people want to give it a go.

Edit: I played a normal 30s 15-round rated game against Norm and Milo. Appropriately, the darrenic max for R1 was TEAMED. Norm and Milo didn't report any problems arising from the numbers rounds. There was one letters round where Milo got the 9 but Norm didn't see in time that he'd written it in the chat window, but Norm said it would just take some getting used to checking the chat window as well. The other problem in this case was that Milo, who was spectating, couldn't see the clock running down. The final numbers round was just a case of Norm forgetting to make a declaration. The conundrum could pose an obvious problem in that the spectator(s) would be left behind a bit and their teammate might buzz in immediately with an incorrect guess or something. Milo said that the conundrum might actually pop up slightly earlier for spectators, but I'm not sure that this is the case.

All in all, there were no major problems with playing multiplayer this way. I suggest people try it for themselves and see what they think.

Edit 2: There was also a bonus for Milo in that he couldn't see my chat.

[Andy Platt]

What Charlie said

OK cheers, interested to see what the collaborative ideas would be.

What Adam said

What's real life?

[Matt Morrison]

Edit: I played a normal 30s 15-round rated game against Norm and Milo.. etc.

Old.

[Adam Gillard]

Edit: I played a normal 30s 15-round rated game against Norm and Milo.. etc.

Old.

Yes I vaguely remembered Team Dent. I suppose the idea was scrapped for good reasons though, hence the makeshift multiplayer thingy that worked quite well.

[Ian Volante]

Will apterous ever incorporate team games into the interface (whether it be 2v2, 3v3 etc, or even an 'expert challenge' style system where several low rated players would team up to take on a single high rated player)?

I can't say never but it's unlikely. It would require such a huge overhaul of the server, client, database and website that it would be virtually a whole new game to write

meet apterous people in real life for a game.

ew

[Matt Bayfield]

Latest idea- Apterous 'Fusion', basically combining elements of lockdown and aegilops.

In letters rounds, you pick 11 letters, but the catch is that letters 2 & 3 and 9 & 10 are 'fused', basically meaning if used in a word they must be used in the order in which they came out or not at all. For example, the selection V E R M U E P S V I M would yield the 11 letter SEMPERVIVUM, whilst the selection V E R M U I P S V E M wouldn't.

In numbers, you get seven numbers, but numbers 6 & 7 are fused (the distribution of numbers would be the same as the standard variant). For example, 100 2 3 5 7 4 2 would become 100 2 3 5 7 42.

Conundrums would basically be as they are always- letters rounds with unique 11-letter solutions.

This is similar to what my much-hyped and endlessly-scrapped 'funky' variant would have been, only less shit.

At the risk of pissing on Ben's Cheerios, this sounds slightly too contrived for me, especially the Numbers round.

However, somewhat hypocritically, I did have a similar idea, so here's one for Ben to rip into:

Pissingitdown (working name, couldn't care what anyone calls it)

Letters
You pick n letters. Each player then has to find the longest word which uses the letters only in the order which they appear. For example, if n were 15, you might receive the selection M A P E D T O R I G E A L O S. In this case, I think the max is MADRIGALS. Longer words such as GLAMORISED would not be valid, as A only appears to the left of the L, etc.

Numbers
You pick p numbers, which are displayed conventionally, with the large numbers on the left. Each player then has to get as close to the target as possible, but only using numbers in the order in which they appear (left to right). For example, if p were 8, you might receive the selection 100 25 7 6 4 5 7 10, and the target 780. I could then make 780 as follows: (100+25)x6 + (4x5) + 10. I can imagine that in many numbers rounds, it would not be possible to hit the target exactly, which might give the Numbers experts something to think about.

There is a slight problem here, in terms of use of the numbers interface. If you solved a game with ax(b+c), you would possibly have to type this into the box. Using the clickable numbers, you would have to click b and c and the equals sign, before a. It might require some clever coding to work out whether a solution entered by clicking the numbers, obeyed the rule that the numbers must be written out in order, left to right.

Conundrums
You see a selection of n letters. The conundrum solution is the unique valid word which is spelled out left to right, and is 9 characters long. To make this harder, the inserted rogue letters would typically be common letters. It may even be possible to code an algorithm to make the n-letter conundrum look as close to other words as possible.


Riders:
(a) I don't know what the optimum n and p would be, to produce good gameplay.
(b) In Hebrew Letters rounds and Conundrums, you'd have to use the letters from right-to-left.
(c) If someone else has already thought of this idea, I apologise for the unintended plagiarism. I have had a scan through this thread, and couldn't see the idea elsewhere.

[Matt Bayfield]

Oh, and incidentally, if anyone could explain to me what YAKBV means (since it appears five times in this thread, and I'm still none the wiser), that would be appreciated. I've even googled it, and the only semi-relevant hit seems to be that YAKBV plus a blank yields no longer word than YAKBV.

[Phil Reynolds]

Oh, and incidentally, if anyone could explain to me what YAKBV means (since it appears five times in this thread, and I'm still none the wiser), that would be appreciated.

Yet Another Kirk Bevins Variant?

[Matt Bayfield]

Ta Phil. That makes sense.

[Thomas Carey]

Latest idea- Apterous 'Fusion', basically combining elements of lockdown and aegilops.

In letters rounds, you pick 11 letters, but the catch is that letters 2 & 3 and 9 & 10 are 'fused', basically meaning if used in a word they must be used in the order in which they came out or not at all. For example, the selection V E R M U E P S V I M would yield the 11 letter SEMPERVIVUM, whilst the selection V E R M U I P S V E M wouldn't.

In numbers, you get seven numbers, but numbers 6 & 7 are fused (the distribution of numbers would be the same as the standard variant). For example, 100 2 3 5 7 4 2 would become 100 2 3 5 7 42.

Conundrums would basically be as they are always- letters rounds with unique 11-letter solutions.

This is similar to what my much-hyped and endlessly-scrapped 'funky' variant would have been, only less shit.

At the risk of pissing on Ben's Cheerios, this sounds slightly too contrived for me, especially the Numbers round.

However, somewhat hypocritically, I did have a similar idea, so here's one for Ben to rip into:

Pissingitdown (working name, couldn't care what anyone calls it)

Letters
You pick n letters. Each player then has to find the longest word which uses the letters only in the order which they appear. For example, if n were 15, you might receive the selection M A P E D T O R I G E A L O S. In this case, I think the max is MADRIGALS. Longer words such as GLAMORISED would not be valid, as A only appears to the left of the L, etc.

Numbers
You pick p numbers, which are displayed conventionally, with the large numbers on the left. Each player then has to get as close to the target as possible, but only using numbers in the order in which they appear (left to right). For example, if p were 8, you might receive the selection 100 25 7 6 4 5 7 10, and the target 780. I could then make 780 as follows: (100+25)x6 + (4x5) + 10. I can imagine that in many numbers rounds, it would not be possible to hit the target exactly, which might give the Numbers experts something to think about.

There is a slight problem here, in terms of use of the numbers interface. If you solved a game with ax(b+c), you would possibly have to type this into the box. Using the clickable numbers, you would have to click b and c and the equals sign, before a. It might require some clever coding to work out whether a solution entered by clicking the numbers, obeyed the rule that the numbers must be written out in order, left to right.

Conundrums
You see a selection of n letters. The conundrum solution is the unique valid word which is spelled out left to right, and is 9 characters long. To make this harder, the inserted rogue letters would typically be common letters. It may even be possible to code an algorithm to make the n-letter conundrum look as close to other words as possible.


Riders:
(a) I don't know what the optimum n and p would be, to produce good gameplay.
(b) In Hebrew Letters rounds and Conundrums, you'd have to use the letters from right-to-left.
(c) If someone else has already thought of this idea, I apologise for the unintended plagiarism. I have had a scan through this thread, and couldn't see the idea elsewhere.

C is correct.

A suggestion (Probably a bit crap but oh well): Something where you get lots of letters (about 27) and you have to make the longest word who's letters are in the selection IN THAT ORDER, e.g. from the selection ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ the best I could come up with was AEGILOPS.

Edit: Just realised AEGILOPS isn't in, but you get the idea.

[Matt Bayfield]

Ha, inevitable! Ta for the shout though, you can take credit for that one then.

[Charlie Reams]

Oh, and incidentally, if anyone could explain to me what YAKBV means (since it appears five times in this thread, and I'm still none the wiser), that would be appreciated.

Yet Another Kirk Bevins Variant?

Originally it was Yet Another Kirk Bevins Vehicle, but yours works too. I coined it to denote things which the same people would be the best at, and while there's nothing wrong with celebrating excellence, there's also nothing exciting about having 50 leaderboards showing the same 5 people in every permutation. I'm always more excited by things that give other people a chance to shine. Unlimited is maybe the greatest success in that respect, which I think Ben Wilson can take the majority of the credit for.

[Steve Balog]

If you wanted to play 2 vs 1 type games, etc, you can always use a voice-chat program like Skype if you want more real-time feedback from the spectating player than just a IM chat. At least for me, meeting people in real life to play might be a bit of a stretch

[Phil Reynolds]

Oh, and incidentally, if anyone could explain to me what YAKBV means (since it appears five times in this thread, and I'm still none the wiser), that would be appreciated.

Yet Another Kirk Bevins Variant?

Originally it was Yet Another Kirk Bevins Vehicle, but yours works too.

Haha. I'd actually assumed it was "Yet Another [something beginning with K]-Based Variant", but couldn't think what the [something beginning with K] might be, so invoked the Name of Kirk instead, thinking I was making a smart joke.

[Thomas Carey]

Also, how about a variant a bit ike the A-M and N-Z one but it does it with obscurity, e.g 11 piles of:

E
A
I,O
R,S,T
N,U
D
L
G,M,P
B,C,F
H,V,W
J,K,Q,X,Y,Z

If there are too many consonants, all but the E pile, A pile, I,O pile and N,U pile are blanked. Same with excessive vowels. Might want to split the N,U into 2 seperate single-letter piles.

[Thomas Carey]

Can we have a new variant please - dosen't have to be original, maybe something like Octogoat (which someone's alreday mentioned) - because I've got an idea for a tourney which eeds 25 different variants and we only have 23.

(Yes, I know, 23+1=24, but asking for 2 would be greedy. And I can use the time to get signups.)

[Charlie Reams]

This thread has been superseded by the new ticket system. I'll migrate old variant ideas to the ticket system in the next few days.