Poppies

[Mark James]

So FIFA have banned the England football team from wearing poppies on their jerseys. Is this really as big a deal as people are making out? If everyone stopped wearing poppies would that really mean that people didn't care or had no respect? How many people on the forum actually wear a poppy or aids ribbon or daffodil on daffodil day or any of these kinds of things? I think it's nonsense myself. Why do people invest so much in meaningless symbols (probably an oxymoron I know)? And will someone set up a thread called puppies or something that sounds vaguely familiar like with the chopsticks and cake forks threads?

[Joseph Krol]

I have a poppy on me right now. I guess it's really the donation that counts. The cost of the poppy probably is more than the financial benefit of their existence.

[Jon Corby]

10 x 10 x 10 x No!

[Jon O'Neill]

I wear one. That's about as far as my love for poppies goes.

[Brian Moore]

Robert Fisk wrote a nicely provocative article in The Independent. I can increasingly see his point. Poppies on the dancers in Strictly Come Dancing, Rachel sporting her designer poppy. I would be less inclined to agree with Fisk if there weren't the inflation in the poppy itself ("Look, mine's prettier than yours!"), the increasing length of time they are worn prior to the day, or the "You must be making a statement" tut-tutting if you don't wear one.

[Julie T]

FIFA are now allowing them to wear poppies on black armbands:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15666769.stm

Personally, I used to wear a poppy years ago, when almost everyone wore one. Nowadays I don't.

Remembering, and being grateful for, the huge losses of life in the world wars, is what is important. I teach my children the history of this throughout the year, as well as visiting war museums and memorials, and hopefully I'm passing on my values to them.

Especially as we have 2 family birthdays in early November, it seems unnecessarily solemn to make my children wear these symbols at this time, and we give to charity in other ways.

[Andy Wilson]

I don't think the boys in green will have them on tomorrow night http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irish-v ... 21108.aspx

[Peter Mabey]

I haven't seen anyone selling them this year - not surprising as one was mugged for her collecting box

[Lesley Hines]

See, that's what happens when you live in Harlow.

I can't see how they're a bad idea. Even if you're a screaming pacifist you should surely respect the people who have died during active service for their country. I've never seen them as any sort of symbol of the rights and wrongs of any wars we've entered into either; just a little visual reminder that's quite a powerful symbol.

Having said that I don't tend to wear one (although I do put money in the pot) just cos the pins are bloody irritating and I forget they're on clothes and wash them, wreck the washing machine, tear other clothes, stain stuff and have a general domestic fail. I really need a wife.

[Rhys Benjamin]

OK I understand that they drew the war for us and all that, but I see FIFA's reasoning. Next thing we know we'll have symbols everywhere for any major anniversary. Nice one FIFA. Again.

[Ian Volante]

The government should cover the costs of its current/former employees, and poppies should only raise funds for conscripts.

[Lesley Hines]

OK I understand that they drew the war for us and all that, but I see FIFA's reasoning. Next thing we know we'll have symbols everywhere for any major anniversary. Nice one FIFA. Again.

Drew which war? Poppies can't do anything And we do have symbols everywhere - just because you don't know you're looking at them doesn't mean they're not there. Go away and find out your local history and compare that to some of the older pub names in your area. "Ferret and Trouser Leg" was a major conflict in the War of Jenkin's Ear.

I think the most offensive thing about FIFA's decision is it's been taken to circumvent any risk of offending any sponsors. Always, always boils down to money.

[Martin Bishop]

I think the most offensive thing about FIFA's decision is it's been taken to circumvent any risk of offending any sponsors. Always, always boils down to money.

I thought the reasoning was their rule banning political statements on international kits. They don't want to let one through and set a precedent.

I wear one on my coat. If nothing else, it lets me walk past someone collecting for the poppy appeal without having to shout "It's alright, I've already paid!"

[Gavin Chipper]

OK I understand that they drew the war for us and all that, but I see FIFA's reasoning. Next thing we know we'll have symbols everywhere for any major anniversary. Nice one FIFA. Again.

I doubt that's the official Tory line.

[Julie T]

The government should cover the costs of its current/former employees, and poppies should only raise funds for conscripts.

I had a similar argument with 2 of my kids a few months back after they gave some money to a "Help For Heroes" collector, but I declined to contribute.

In the 2 world wars, men had little choice but to fight - I know they could be conscientious objectors, but by all accounts this was a difficult path to take.

Nowadays there is no conscription, so those in the armed forces are there by choice, and know the risks. My kids argued that we should still be grateful, because if no-one volunteered, there would have to be conscription even for small conflicts. My argument was, that if that were the case, since people would strongly resist conscription, governments would be less likely to go to war. Result!

[Rhys Benjamin]

OK I understand that they drew the war for us and all that, but I see FIFA's reasoning. Next thing we know we'll have symbols everywhere for any major anniversary. Nice one FIFA. Again.

I doubt that's the official Tory line.

[Richard Adams]

I hope the poppy is, for most purposes, redundant.

It's not a bad idea if people on TV wear one; it reminds us that this is the time of year to chip in to the Haig Fund, which I feel we all should. They gave their tomorrows that we might enjoy our todays, etc. I was born in 1963 and most of my generation have never been called upon to make a contribution to society like those who fell in the wars. We should regularly count our blessings. We've never had it so good.

But I don't really like to wear a poppy. I don't need to wear one to remind me whether I've remembered to chip in or not, and it's no-one's business but my own whether or not I have, and not my place to be part of any attempt to shame those who haven't into doing so.

Though, having said that, there must be plenty who don't; they only raise £40M or so, which is far less than £1 per head of the population. £1 isn't much. Collectively we hardly give generously.

A quaker friend of mine wears both the red and the white versions. Good for him. But I think, on balance, I'd rather he keep his coded messages to himself than broadcast them in this way.

But then I don't like tattoos, so what do I know? And I also make the mistake of trying to read the messages some people have have printed on their T-shirts, as if the message were supposed to be read, and to mean something.