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Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:41 am
by Jon Corby
I see Paul Zenon has been doing some good work sticking it to that hideous cunt "Psychic" Sally Morgan, in a Daily Mail article, on This Morning and also on BBC News, following several newspapers running with the story of audience members overhearing her backroom staff feeding her information via an earpiece.
I see also that she is preparing to launch some kind of lawsuit against somebody - what on earth could it be? Do you think it could be against PZ? Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:49 pm
by Gavin Chipper
Jon Corby wrote:Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
Presumably she already knows.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:30 pm
by Charlie Reams
Jon Corby wrote:Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
Nah. These frauds never take it to court because they don't want to be asked about their "powers" while under oath. Reminds me of
the Dawkins astrology interview (good bit starts at about 8 mins).
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:31 pm
by Lucy Gowers
Jon Corby wrote:I see Paul Zenon has been doing some good work sticking it to that hideous cunt "Psychic" Sally Morgan, in a Daily Mail article, on This Morning and also on BBC News, following several newspapers running with the story of audience members overhearing her backroom staff feeding her information via an earpiece.
I see also that she is preparing to launch some kind of lawsuit against somebody - what on earth could it be? Do you think it could be against PZ? Could she possibly win any kind of libel case?
She's apparently upset about this article (particularly the references to Peter Popoff):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/ ... ars-voices
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:06 pm
by Jon Corby
Is there anything particularly in that article she can contest Lucy, in your opinion? It pretty much just states the whole "some people said they overheard..." thing, then says "it's similar to Popoff...". Surely she can't contest this, it is similar, in that they're both scammers...?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:22 pm
by Brian Moore
Paul Zenon jumps several points in my estimation for his
sticking the boot in. Psychic Sally will have to fight the legal battle on several fronts now, if she thinks she's got a case - it's all over t'internet, including Youtube footage from her own video of her
removing an earpiece. And there was I thinking that mediums really could hear from the dead. Houdini tells me he's pleased.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:19 pm
by Charlie Reams
Excellent.
This is quite painful to watch.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:58 pm
by Brian Moore
Charlie Reams wrote:Excellent.
This is quite painful to watch.
Hahaha - equally splendid. She'd have had as much luck fishing for cod in the Sahara Desert. On the left hand side.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:31 pm
by Jon Corby
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:02 pm
by Jon Corby
I see she's now put out a statement explaining that she wears an earpiece for "stage direction" (?) despite vehemently insisting previously that she only wore a mic and "heard nothing through her ears" as if that were a ludicrous suggestion. (And yet her facebook page is still full of people who believe and don't care a toss for the lies and contradiction. I despair!)
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:03 pm
by Jon O'Neill
Jon Corby wrote:I see she's now put out a statement explaining that she wears an earpiece for "stage direction" (?) despite vehemently insisting previously that she only wore a mic and "heard nothing through her ears" as if that were a ludicrous suggestion. (And yet her facebook page is still full of people who believe and don't care a toss for the lies and contradiction. I despair!)
Your debates on there are amusing and futile.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:50 pm
by Jon Corby
Jon O'Neill wrote:Jon Corby wrote:I see she's now put out a statement explaining that she wears an earpiece for "stage direction" (?) despite vehemently insisting previously that she only wore a mic and "heard nothing through her ears" as if that were a ludicrous suggestion. (And yet her facebook page is still full of people who believe and don't care a toss for the lies and contradiction. I despair!)
Your debates on there are amusing and futile.
Heh, it was fun for a while, but it is actually scary how stupid some people are. My favourite was something like (said in all seriousness) "if she is being fed stuff through an earpiece, how do they suddenly know so much information about the person that Sally has picked out at random". I mean, how can you not have the brainpower to think about what would really be happening? Even if you don't agree with it or want to believe it, how can you be so wilfully stupid as to not even consider it?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:53 pm
by Brian Moore
Jon O'Neill wrote:Your debates on there are amusing and futile.
And now Charlie's waded in. More entertainment. Of all the groups of people who are going to be impervious to reason and logic, I think Psychic Sally's supporters might be amongst the most resilient, mixing blind faith with stupidity.
Oh, I see you've come to a similar conclusion, Jon. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did. As I posted during a lively debate elsewhere "One can't argue with that sort of logic - so I won't."
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:56 pm
by Jon Corby
Brian Moore wrote:Jon O'Neill wrote:Your debates on there are amusing and futile.
And now Charlie's waded in. More entertainment. Of all the groups of people who are going to be impervious to reason and logic, I think Psychic Sally's supporters might be amongst the most resilient, mixing blind faith with stupidity.
Yeah, I've kind of given up after somebody asked me for proof that dead people can't talk to you. How can you even write that and not just go "oh, wait... yeah."
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:01 pm
by Jon Corby
Brian Moore wrote:Oh, I see you've come to a similar conclusion, Jon. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did.
I have to admit, I do enjoy those kinds of discussions though
We don't get them much on here, we have had the odd idiot of that kind of calibre, but they don't tend to last
that long.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:04 pm
by Brian Moore
Jon Corby wrote:Brian Moore wrote:Oh, I see you've come to a similar conclusion, Jon. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did.
I have to admit, I do enjoy those kinds of discussions though
We don't get them much on here, we have had the odd idiot of that kind of calibre, but they don't tend to last
that long.
Full marks for stamina. I haven't got the patience with people
that stupid. Still, I expect that they buy lots of Lottery tickets too, so I should be grateful for their contribution to society.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:14 pm
by Jon Corby
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:40 am
by Chris Davies
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:47 pm
by David Williams
So it seems we're unanimous that receiving information through an earpiece, and using it to appear to have abilities we don't, all in the name of entertainment, is wrong. Well, I can certainly go along with that. I'm a little surprised that Paul Zenon agrees, though.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:01 pm
by JimBentley
David Williams wrote:So it seems we're unanimous that receiving information through an earpiece, and using it to appear to have abilities we don't, all in the name of entertainment, is wrong. Well, I can certainly go along with that. I'm a little surprised that Paul Zenon agrees, though.
It's hardly the same level of deception though, is it? And anyway, I'm sure it's more for the benefit of the production team than Paul Zenon himself.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:10 pm
by David Williams
JimBentley wrote:David Williams wrote:So it seems we're unanimous that receiving information through an earpiece, and using it to appear to have abilities we don't, all in the name of entertainment, is wrong. Well, I can certainly go along with that. I'm a little surprised that Paul Zenon agrees, though.
It's hardly the same level of deception though, is it? And anyway, I'm sure it's more for the benefit of the production team than Paul Zenon himself.
Maybe not the same level, but it's the same deception, which rather leaves Paul Zenon open to a charge of hypocrisy. And I'm finding it hard to seethe with moral indignation at one while tacitly approving the other. I imagine Psychic Sally has thousands of dead people trying to get her attention, so a bit of surreptitious info about an audience member is a useful way of filtering out the time-wasters.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:01 pm
by Lesley Hines
David Williams wrote:it's the same deception, which rather leaves Paul Zenon open to a charge of hypocrisy. And I'm finding it hard to seethe with moral indignation at one while tacitly approving the other.
Sorry but I think they're completely different things. If anyone were to suggest seriously to Paul Zenon (or any other similar act) that their stuff was actual magic and not just some well-practised prestidigitation they'd laugh for a week and point out you'd be bonkers for thinking anything different. Plus they're not exploiting people who are both grieving and frighteningly stupid. Everyone knows illusionists create illusions - it doesn't detract at all from their shows as what they do is still really skillful and entertaining. If you're claiming to have supernatural powers you should at least have the common sense to keep your head down when someone points out you've got pants on fire.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:32 pm
by Gavin Chipper
Lesley Hines wrote:David Williams wrote:it's the same deception, which rather leaves Paul Zenon open to a charge of hypocrisy. And I'm finding it hard to seethe with moral indignation at one while tacitly approving the other.
Sorry but I think they're completely different things. If anyone were to suggest seriously to Paul Zenon (or any other similar act) that their stuff was actual magic and not just some well-practised prestidigitation they'd laugh for a week and point out you'd be bonkers for thinking anything different. Plus they're not exploiting people who are both grieving and frighteningly stupid. Everyone knows illusionists create illusions - it doesn't detract at all from their shows as what they do is still really skillful and entertaining. If you're claiming to have supernatural powers you should at least have the common sense to keep your head down when someone points out you've got pants on fire.
Exactly. It's not hypocrisy for a stage magician to not use real magic and not claim to, and and the same time complain that someone who is claiming to genuinely speak to dead people isn't actually doing so.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:38 pm
by David Williams
I didn't accuse Paul Zenon of claiming to be able to perform magic. I pointed out that he (and every other inhabitant of Dictionary Corner) has information fed to him through an earpiece, which is concealed from the audience.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:41 pm
by Gavin Chipper
David Williams wrote:I didn't accuse Paul Zenon of claiming to be able to perform magic. I pointed out that he (and every other inhabitant of Dictionary Corner) has information fed to him through an earpiece, which is concealed from the audience.
You were being too subtle for the likes of me. Very good.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:45 pm
by Graeme Cole
David Williams wrote:I didn't accuse Paul Zenon of claiming to be able to perform magic. I pointed out that he (and every other inhabitant of Dictionary Corner) has information fed to him through an earpiece, which is concealed from the audience.
Are you sure the DC guest has an earpiece? I know Susie does, but I'm not sure the same is true of the guest.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:12 pm
by Lesley Hines
Does that then mean I've just inadvertently accused the producers of exploiting the viewers, who are frighteningly stupid?
I don't think it makes any difference, although tbf most DC guests say more 'we' found, rather than 'I', or will credit Susie, and the odd exception will give their own actual declarations. Even so, what they're claiming isn't beyond the bounds of possibility, whereas Psycho Sally is. Also she's being paid handsomely for it from people's own pockets when they'd be better spending their money on a bit of grief counselling or donating it to Cruse. The worst thing is she perpetuates the belief, she's not helping people to come to terms with their loss. Sick and wrong.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:26 am
by Brian Moore
Graeme Cole wrote:Are you sure the DC guest has an earpiece? I know Susie does, but I'm not sure the same is true of the guest.
From the way that some DC guests mangle the pronunciation of words fed by Susie, my guess is that they don't have an earpiece - leading to the comical spectacle of some of them trying to appear clever by saying a long word, but giving away that they have no clue whatsoever what they are reading off Susie's piece of paper. If they have got an earpiece, it would mean that they can't even repeat what they have been told.
At least Paul Zenon pronounces the words right on the whole, even if he never admits that they are not his discovery.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:00 am
by David Williams
Lesley Hines wrote:Does that then mean I've just inadvertently accused the producers of exploiting the viewers, who are frighteningly stupid?
I don't think it makes any difference, although tbf most DC guests say more 'we' found, rather than 'I', or will credit Susie, and the odd exception will give their own actual declarations. Even so, what they're claiming isn't beyond the bounds of possibility, whereas Psycho Sally is. Also she's being paid handsomely for it from people's own pockets when they'd be better spending their money on a bit of grief counselling or donating it to Cruse. The worst thing is she perpetuates the belief, she's not helping people to come to terms with their loss. Sick and wrong.
I think you're still confusing two issues here. There's the cheating, for different ends but by pretty similar methods for Dictionary Corner and Psychic Sally. And there's the whole life after death thing. Your second paragraph looks like an inadvertent attack on organised religion!
Incidentally, isn't "come to terms with" a strange expression? It literally means arriving at a negotiated settlement, but we use it to mean facing up to something that can't be changed - the complete opposite.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:50 am
by Mark James
David Williams wrote:And there's the whole life after death thing. Your second paragraph looks like an inadvertent attack on organised religion!
Lets hope it was. Religion is wank. Although something tells me David is on a wind up here.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:18 pm
by Lesley Hines
Mark James wrote:David Williams wrote:And there's the whole life after death thing. Your second paragraph looks like an inadvertent attack on organised religion!
Lets hope it was. Religion is wank. Although something tells me David is on a wind up here.
Beat me to it
It wasn't actually what I was thinking at all, although now you come to mention it...
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:21 pm
by David Williams
Wish I'd known what Corby was up to on Facebook so I could have debated it with him. Some of this stuff would be gold dust there. Not enough idiots round here these days.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:29 pm
by Brian Moore
Mark James wrote:Religion is wank.
I think "wonk" is the word of the moment - deployed to good effect by Phil Hammond on Question Time on Thursday. It left Andrew Lansley lost for words.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:22 pm
by Jimmy Gough
If anyone's read or watched Brighton Rock: Psychic Sally reminds me of Ida Arnold so much.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:37 am
by Charlie Reams
I really enjoyed that. Obviously I was expecting some angry replies since that was the whole fun of it but that was the best one. I like how she's tried to turn the Sally Moron thing back on me but it doesn't make any sense. Heeheehee.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:38 am
by Brian Moore
I see Jon's been back in action.
Is there a reason the most vitriolic and brainless defenders of PS on that page are women? (Oh dear, that sounds horribly sexist - sorry.)
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:16 am
by Jon Corby
Brian Moore wrote:I see Jon's been back in action.
Is there a reason the most vitriolic and brainless defenders of PS on that page are women? (Oh dear, that sounds horribly sexist - sorry.)
Haha. Do you know why I went back? I got some fan mail from 5 different strangers who were "loving my work" on there. What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:36 am
by Brian Moore
Jon Corby wrote:Brian Moore wrote:I see Jon's been back in action.
Haha. Do you know why I went back? I got some fan mail from 5 different strangers who were "loving my work" on there. What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.
A bit like a porn star, then.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:05 am
by Jon Corby
Brian Moore wrote:Jon Corby wrote:Brian Moore wrote:I see Jon's been back in action.
Haha. Do you know why I went back? I got some fan mail from 5 different strangers who were "loving my work" on there. What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.
A bit like a porn star, then.
Hahaha, pretty much, yeah!
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:15 am
by Brian Moore
Jon Corby wrote:Brian Moore wrote:Jon Corby wrote:What can I say, I'm all about giving the people what they want.
A bit like Sally Morgan, then.
Hahaha, pretty much, yeah!
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:51 am
by Jon Corby
I've now been booted out, and every one of my insertions has been removed from history like it never happened.
(Just like when I was a porn star.)
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:34 am
by Michael Wallace
Jon Corby wrote:I've now been booted out, and every one of my insertions has been removed from history like it never happened.
(Just like when I was a porn star.)
Guess you didn't see that one coming.
Also, I have only just read this thread after seeing mention of PS on FB. Very amusing, would read again.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:46 am
by Jon Corby
Michael Wallace wrote:Guess you didn't see that one coming.
Just like when I was a porn star.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:07 am
by Matt Morrison
Jon Corby wrote:Michael Wallace wrote:Guess you didn't see that one coming.
Just like when I was a porn star.
You reminded me of
The Gush for some reason.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:13 pm
by Ben Wilson
Jon Corby wrote:I've now been booted out, and every one of my insertions has been removed from history like it never happened.
(Just like when I was a porn star.)
Wow, not only can she not read the future, she can't even read the past with any accuracy...
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:46 pm
by Jon Corby
Ben Wilson wrote:Wow, not only can she not read the future, she can't even read the past with any accuracy...
hehehe, very good!
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:05 pm
by Lesley Hines
Bah! Gutted! Was enjoying that but reading it on my phone only allows me to back 50 posts. I was going to go back and read it when I some time today at machine. Still, my mum brought me up that it's not nice to laugh at the village idiots. (If they're begging you to though I was prepared to make an exception
)
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:03 am
by Brian Moore
Lesley, I see that your one post in the Corbythread (TM) hasn't been deleted, despite the fact that it's intelligible and properly punctuated. (Though perhaps your being a woman counts in your favour.)
Incidentally, the Guardian are
still on the case, even if it's not new news.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:06 pm
by Jon Corby
Sally's latest post on her
Facebook page (which I'm blocked from posting on):
"Went to see Paranormal Activity 3 this afternoon. Luckily I had John and Daren next to me as I was so scared! I jumped the whole way through! xSx"
You'd think she'd be kind of used to that sort of stuff.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:37 am
by Phil Reynolds
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:52 pm
by Jon Corby
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:18 pm
by Phil Reynolds
Love the comment from R2D2.
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:25 pm
by Michael Wallace
So how does this work? The Daily Mail have to prove she was faking, right?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:02 pm
by Jon Corby
Michael Wallace wrote:So how does this work? The Daily Mail have to prove she was faking, right?
*shines Lucy Gowers shaped symbol into the night sky*
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:58 pm
by Lucy Gowers
Jon Corby wrote:Michael Wallace wrote:So how does this work? The Daily Mail have to prove she was faking, right?
*shines Lucy Gowers shaped symbol into the night sky*
Arf.
Sally would have to prove that the article is defamatory of her. The definition used by the courts of whether something is defamatory is that it must "tend to lower [her] in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally".
Once she's done that, Michael's right that the Mail/PZ must either prove the truth of the article or show that they can benefit from one of the defamation defences (eg that it's fair comment or it's subject to qualified privilege because it's in the public interest).
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:06 pm
by Jon Corby
Holy crap, the symbol works!
Thanks Lucy. How do you see it panning out? I know OFCOM issued new guidelines including the following:
Psychic readings cannot stray beyond the carefully circumscribed area of entertainment and should never be presented as reliable, substantiated or offering anything other than a form of entertainment.
but I assume that doesn't directly apply (or can it all be intertwined - some shows are filmed for TV etc?) Isn't the counter-position to Paul's that she is what she claims (and therefore in breach of the regulations)? Or am I oversimplifying and/or missing the genuine point of contention?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:48 am
by Lesley Hines
Lucy Gowers wrote:Sally would have to prove that the article is defamatory of her. The definition used by the courts of whether something is defamatory is that it must "tend to lower [her] in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally".
That's really interesting. The problem I guess is that right-thinking members of society are likely to think what she does is bunkum anyway, no?
Man, I so hope they can prove the truth. Some of these creeps want outing. It's just a shame there are people (some of whom I know personally!) who will continue to believe for evermore that it's somehow wrong to be cynical.
Quotes from several friends who have seen her live:
"Yes, but she's amazing. When you're there you absolutely know she's speaking the truth." Like, dur. Of course she is - that's why she has researchers.
"She knew everything about [some dead relly of one of their friends] and didn't speak to anyone. It was great cos [friend] really wanted to hear from them." "Did friend discuss this on the way in?" "Oh yes, it was why we went."
"You either believe or you don't."
*Bangs head against wall*
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:54 am
by Lesley Hines
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:57 am
by Michael Wallace
So what is the standard excuse for not proving your abilities if you're a psychic? Is it just that their powers are a bit random so they might not work all the time?
Re: Paul Zenon vs Psychic Sally
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:05 pm
by Mark James
Michael Wallace wrote:So what is the standard excuse for not proving your abilities if you're a psychic? Is it just that their powers are a bit random so they might not work all the time?
I've heard that some are afraid to prove it conclusively because the powers that be wouldn't like it and they'd be experimented on or killed or something.
