c4countdown

I know loads of people who have been on Countdown or enjoy Countdown have Asperger Syndrome, and I'd guess probably a bunch of people who use this forum. So... who does and who doesn't? To start this discussion off, I personally think I don't.

I have no medical reason for my social ineptitude.

I'm normal.

I think the only two c4cers are Jason Larsen and Stewart Gordon - am I right, guys?

If we extend it to the Countdown family then you could add in Jeffrey Hansford and John Davies.

Jon Corby wrote:I'm normal.

I doubt it.

Zef maybe or would he hate me for suggesting it?

100% no.

Interesting topic you've started here Mikey. In the 6 or so years I watched the show yes there have been a fair few people with Aspergers on the show, all the way from finalists to losing their first show. I'm openly admittant to having it. Personally speaking Mikey, I did see you play once or twice and I would be very surprised if you suffered from it.

Tom wrote:I would be very surprised if you suffered from it.

I don't think anyone suffers from it.

In some threads everyone suffers from it.

Jon O'Neill wrote:100% no.

He's got something.

I think it's interesting too. Partly because people with Aspergers are so fun (my experience of meeting Jeffrey Hansford was particularly awesome and one of the best bits about being in the finals in 2007) and partly because of everyone's odd attitude to it. I've noticed it on this forum - obviously the main purpose of internet forums is to have blazing and offensive rows with people you haven't met, so naturally Countdowners aren't going to back down from that. But there are some people who I reckon have Aspergers and who are continually heckled for their awkward comments. Most obviously when they haven't understood, for example, the irony of someone else's comment.
What I wanted to find out was 1) Whether the people I suspect of having Aspergers do in fact have it (or if they think they do) and 2) Whether that's a surprise or not to the people who so nonchalently flame them. Is flame the right word there? I was firmly on the side of people who really enjoyed watching Jeffrey in his octochamp round and I was kind of surprised to see that the discussion of his behaviour (which was fully aware of his Aspergers) ranged from delight (me) well past frustrated irritation (I can definitely sympathise) to aggressive dislike.
Also, Charlie, I wrote you a message but I don't think you got it, or if you did you didn't reply. Do you want my dictionary? Everyone else -ignore that bit.

Hi Mikey.

In answer to your first part: I found Jeffrey unpleasant. I have seen several Aspergers contestants who have been as charming, modest and affable as anyone, so I can't therefore conclude that his nature is entirely due to his condition. It probably plays a part, but then even the ASBO kid scratching my car's paintwork (wanker) could probably also have the cause of his behaviour explained by some shrink. Some people are just unpleasant, Aspergers or otherwise. I realise that's probably not very politically correct, but then again I'm not sure that being so entertained ("Partly because people with Aspergers are so fun") by somebody's mental condition is either.

In answer to your second part, I treat everyone's posts in the same way, regardless of who made them. If someone says something funny I'll laugh, if they say something stupid, I'll rip on them, be they reverend, drunken Irish man or sexy Countdown production staff member. As far as I'm aware, nobody has given us any reason to think anyone here requires handling with kid gloves.

Jon Corby wrote:Hi Mikey.

drunken Irish man

... why does this sound vaguely familiar?? Actually I have been sober for two days - I'd kill everyone in this library for a beer right now.

As for Jeffrey I have to type that I really enjoyed watching him on Countdown and it was an equal mixture of laughing at him and laughing with him. I only went off him somewhat when I heard about all the background shenanigans that never made it on to the TV. It really wasn't fair for some of the players to have to play in that environment and I am fairly sure that we won't have a repeat appearance from Jeffrey. There are quite a few people with Asperger's on this site - rather more than you'd think! I don't have Asperger's though, I am one of those natural jerks that no shrink can explain away.

Jon Corby wrote:
if they say something stupid, I'll rip on them, be they reverend, drunken Irish man or sexy Countdown production staff member.

Awww, I didn't think you felt that way about Damian.

I don't think I have it, although I fit some of the stereotypes. I can imagine that it might be an advantage for Countdown and Scrabble and similar - ability to memorise patterns and facts more easily than most people, and less likely to be distracted by social situations.

David O'Donnell wrote:There are quite a few people with Asperger's on this site - rather more than you'd think!

Is this based on your own diagnoses or other from the horses' mouths?

Kirk Bevins wrote:

Jon Corby wrote:
if they say something stupid, I'll rip on them, be they reverend, drunken Irish man or sexy Countdown production staff member.

Awww, I didn't think you felt that way about Damian.

I didn't think Damian was a drunken Irishman either.

Kirk Bevins wrote:Awww, I didn't think you felt that way about Damian.

You need to pay more attention then!

Martin Smith wrote:I don't think I have it, although I fit some of the stereotypes. I can imagine that it might be an advantage for Countdown and Scrabble and similar - ability to memorise patterns and facts more easily than most people, and less likely to be distracted by social situations.

Having met you, Martin, I'd have to type that it's highly unlikely that you have Asperger's. You can maintain eye-contact and have an understanding of idiomatic humour. Though, who knows (probably a doctor), the only people I have met, with Asperger's, have had a fairly serious version of the disorder - more like Jeffrey - and have needed round the clock care.

David O'Donnell wrote:Though, who knows (probably a doctor), the only people I have met, with Asperger's, have had a fairly serious version of the disorder - more like Jeffrey - and have needed round the clock care.

I would have thought those with autism may need round the clock care, but Asperger's is a milder form where people can generally get on with life but are poor at social interactions.

There are some who say that everybody's on the autistic spectrum somewhere, even if it's nothing apparent.
My 13 YO son is autistic, but also has severe learning difficulties, which is a whole different kettle of fish.
I'm just mildy unsociable, and also find it difficult when people say things different from what they mean and expect you to decode it.

Julie T wrote:which is a whole different kettle of fish.

You've lost me there. Care to decode?

Hee, hee! The irony wasn't intentional, honest!
I meant sarcasm and downright lying really, that makes me feel unconfortable, even if I have managed to understand the real meaning.

I also have Asperger's (according to the psychologist). I am not going to elaborate on that.

I'd just call myself kinda socially retarded and quite unsociable. I dunno I'd probably be in that place between autistic and "normal". But I agree with what Jon Corby said, you shouldn't like somebody just because they've got aspergers - Jeffery Hansford was a dickface. I don't see how you can deny that.

Charlie Reams wrote:I have no medical reason for my social ineptitude.

I dunno if this was a joke but I think everyone would agree you were one of the most likeable contestants in last series and the funniest as well.

I'm fairly certain I would have been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome if it had been fashionable when I was a child. But it wasn't, so I escaped the attentions of the educational psychologists. Someone at work had a son who was diagnosed with Asperger's who had a lot of the same eccentricities as me.

The main thing about a child with Asperger's (and I'm not talking about serious learning difficulties here, just mild conditions such as may have been seen in certain Countdown contestants!) is that it should make as little difference as possible. If the child has Asperger's, then he's going to have to live in the normal world with other people, so he's got to be taught how to do it. Specifically, if he can't empathise with other people's emotions and has no tact whatsoever, that's fine; but he needs to be taught that other people have feelings and that he should respect them, even if he can't understand them. Any suggestion of "he's got Asperger's, make allowances for him" just makes things worse.

David Roe wrote: ... but he needs to be taught that other people have feelings and that he should respect them, ...

Yes, David,
but that would be nice for every human to adopt.

Very true. Everyone needs to learn that, it's just easier for some than for others.

"The main thing about a child with Asperger's (and I'm not talking about serious learning difficulties here, just mild conditions such as may have been seen in certain Countdown contestants!) is that it should make as little difference as possible. If the child has Asperger's, then he's going to have to live in the normal world with other people, so he's got to be taught how to do it".

That's easier said than done though. I had the right support as a child and now I'm just like anyone else and have gainful employment and a fairly decent life. I totally agree with having to learn to live in the real world with other people. Not as many people were as fortunate as I was and some people I've known with AS get admitted to their local autism trusts or similar and get the chance to exercise the traits/behaviours that are deemed as odd or deemed as socially unacceptable which in my view, these people should not condone as the rules of the normal world are unwritten and should they continue to use these traits i.e pedantry and narrow interests then they usually will only last 5 minutes.

Straight out having Aspergers gifted me to become a series runner up at a young age, though I was naturally gifted and if I didn't have AS would have probably become a series finalist at around 21/22, AS gifted me to do it 5 or so years earlier and the reason for that is my memory, I could remember most things DC and contestants came up with that I didn't, added it to what I already knew and I never studied a word list or picked up the dictionary.

I have been asked countless times, would all people with AS be good at Countdown because of memory? some would not do so bad, others wouldn't be able to do it at all. I've seen several people on the show with AS when I watched the regularly back in the days, some did very well, others lost their first game or maybe won one or two.

Julie T wrote: I'm just mildy unsociable, and also find it difficult when people say things different from what they mean and expect you to decode it.

Just be glad you don't have to live with my girlfriend then.

Gavin Chipper wrote:Zef maybe or would he hate me for suggesting it?

I've always thought he has some sort of paranoia disorder (yes, seriously).

Oh, I'm pretty obsessive, I generally obsess over something for a period of time then move onto something else, the reason for which I'm surprised that I still watch Countdown and play Scrabble even though I started when I was 17 and I'm now 25, so that's the longest "obsession" I've ever had. Still I wouldn't say I'm autistic, I'd like to think I pick up on social things quicker than most people, if you ever read Ronnie O'Sullivan's autobiography*, his description of his "additive personality" is not too far away from my personality.

*It's very good and it's not all about snooker.

I was diagnosed in October 2001.

Having spent a little time with Mikey I'd say he was about 15% Aspergers, depending on the day.

I reckon I'm about 7. But I might be wrong. About everything.

Actually, thinking about it, Mikey does have extreme social skills - to the extent that they are almost a super-power - so would that make him ineligible for Aspergers?

Cheers!
Rory

rubsley wrote:Having spent a little time with Mikey I'd say he was about 15% Aspergers, depending on the day.

I reckon I'm about 7. But I might be wrong. About everything.

Actually, thinking about it, Mikey does have extreme social skills - to the extent that they are almost a super-power - so would that make him ineligible for Aspergers?

Cheers!
Rory

Maybe he's completely asocial but his savant abilities have enabled him to pick up on the finest details of socialising and has since become a socialite of the highest order despite not even being able to recognise people's faces.

rubsley wrote:Actually, thinking about it, Mikey does have extreme social skills - to the extent that they are almost a super-power - so would that make him ineligible for Aspergers?

Cheers!
Rory

It would depend if they were taught or acquired naturally. Females with Asperger's do tend to be more adept at 'masking' the condition than males and have a more even profile of abilities in this area. Girls with the condition seem to be more able in the realms of social play, too.

A useful PDF document can be found at http://www.aspergerfoundation.org.uk/in ... _girls.pdf

Katherine Birkett wrote:A useful PDF document can be found at http://www.aspergerfoundation.org.uk/in ... _girls.pdf

Interesting read, it certainly challenged my perception of Asperger's as a mostly male thing, although statistically that is true.

Charlie Reams wrote:

Katherine Birkett wrote:A useful PDF document can be found at http://www.aspergerfoundation.org.uk/in ... _girls.pdf

Interesting read, it certainly challenged my perception of Asperger's as a mostly male thing, although statistically that is true.

I've heard that females with Aspergers are more likely to go unnoticed than male cases, simply being regarded as quiet or shy.

Ross M wrote: I've heard that females with Aspergers are mone likely to go unnoticed than male cases, simply being regarded as quiet or shy.

With me, it was always said that I was 'slightly autistic' or had 'autistic tendencies' (Educational Psychologist's report in 1984 when I was 7) and nothing more concrete was substantiated through my school years. I was FINALLY diagnosed aged 24 in 2001!

For me, life hasn't moved on since I left sixth form nearly 13 years ago. All of my schoolfriends back then have got rapidly maturing careers, many now have children and have gone on to travel the world. It's almost as if I've been kept in stasis since 1996. Asperger's gave me a fear of something that the operation I had in November removed from my life permanently. Hope this isn't too yucky, but it was my own menstruation. Employers wouldn't take me on as I'd need to shut myself down and go off sick for 5 days to 'cope and get through' what was for me a very frightening thing. I never have had a regular cycle so never knew when these five days would be. For all of my time since leaving sixth form, I've lived off Income Support, Disability Living Allowance and sporadic Jobseeker's Allowance. Basically, benefits. I had the hysterectomy to make my life functionally, socially and behaviourally easier.

With that off my back and consigned to the dustbin, I have only the Asperger's, Dyspraxia and my numerical dyslexia to make my jobhunting a bit more difficult. But there are strategies that I've built up over the years to cope with my many difficulties. Even now there isn't enough general public awareness of these disabilities. When I say I have Asperger's, Dyspraxia etc, many, many people's faces draw a blank. With the economic crisis being so bad, I cannot see myself getting a job even this year as there are far more experienced, sociable, more mature people than me. I don't stand a chance of getting in work. My benefits come under a review next month, and I am really getting worried over this.

Ideally, my job would be where I work alone so I don't have to participate in confusing cross-colleague banter and small talk. Alone without distractions as Dyspraxia and Asperger's can manifest itself in the form of difficulty concentrating. I would love to train to be a Disability Awareness Instructor and freelance columnist for magazines, Internet sites and newspapers.

Katherine, I don't feel equipped at the moment to respond in detail to your extremely moving post, but all I would say at the moment is that, on the basis of this evidence, you could certainly write for a living with little or no training required. I wish you all the very best of luck.

With that off my back and consigned to the dustbin, I have only the Asperger's, Dyspraxia and my numerical dyslexia to make my jobhunting a bit more difficult. But there are strategies that I've built up over the years to cope with my many difficulties.

I have also been officially diagnosed with dyspraxia. Although I haven't been diagnosed as having AS (and seriously doubt I have it), there is apparently an overlap between dyspraxia and AS.

Ideally, my job would be where I work alone so I don't have to participate in confusing cross-colleague banter and small talk.

I can definitely relate to that.

Matt.

Does Susan Boyle have Asperger's, and what would she be like at Countdown?

I, as you might have guessed from my appearances on the show last month have Asperger syndrome, but I don't think it has been a hindrance to my life compared to other people who might have had it. Although, I do slightly blame my Asperger's for not letting me get through my accountancy course, since I couldn't take all the information in and with me being the only one with Asperger's I had to make do with a Level 2 AAT certificate. Not too much use!

Well, at least there's always Countdown on the telly! Good fun for the Asperger lot!

Just think what the world would be like if Countdown never existed

P.S. I know that last bit is slightly straying onto a different subject, but just think about that for a second or two!

Derek Hazell wrote:Does Susan Boyle have Asperger's, and what would she be like at Countdown?

She does have unspecified learning difficulties due to oxygen deprivation at birth.

Derek Hazell wrote:Does Susan Boyle have Asperger's, and what would she be like at Countdown?

I was thinking when she came second to the winning act

"This is Hansford Vs Beevers but in the form of Britains got talent!!"

JackHurst wrote:

Derek Hazell wrote:Does Susan Boyle have Asperger's, and what would she be like at Countdown?

I was thinking when she came second to the winning act

"This is Hansford Vs Beevers but in the form of Britains got talent!!"

Lol. Can you explain how Craig is represented by a large troupe of black dancers? Or perhaps you'd better not . . .

Derek Hazell wrote:Can you explain how Craig is represented by a large troupe of black dancers? Or perhaps you'd better not . . .

Posts like these are why we need a "like" button to express the lol factor

There are some who say that everybody's on the autistic spectrum somewhere, even if it's nothing apparent.

I think this is very true, and also that as intelligence, and particularly logical/mathematical ability goes up, the trend is for people to be further onto the spectrum....... Personally I would say I am further across than most - I don't make friends easily (although that's partly probably because I'm a self-confessed geek and have no interest in popular culture) and am rubbish at reading people's emotions or understanding how they will react. I am quite grateful in some ways that I grew up before Aspergers, and dyspraxia which I am pretty sure I do have, became widely known and was labelled as anti-social and clumsy instead and left to grow out of these characteristics .... my experience at the time was that when I was about 15 my classmates seemed to grow up and finally started realising I was normal and OK after all and I made a few friends but maybe I don't see it quite like that looking back!

Just for interest have any other Countdowners had a similar experience to me.... of doing an 'are you dyslexic?' test and scoring 8/10, the only two I said no to being 'do you have trouble spelling' and 'were you late learning to read'?

There is a programme on next Tuesday night which may be of interest to some of you. Called "The Autistic Me", it focuses on three young men with differing types of autism, and is described by the Radio Times as an "excellent documentary". 9pm BBC3.

...

Although I've never been diagnosed with it, I'm sure that it is the reason I have never found the secret of chatting up, so all the girls I've ever fancied have married someone else before I'd even begun to approach them.
It's likely that the problem was exacerbated by the circumstance that at the outbreak of war, I was taken from my boys' school, and sent to a mixed one, where a gang of girls ruled my year. Furthermore I was then living with my grandparents and maiden aunts, so had nobody I could speak to about the problems of puberty.

Speaking of Asperger's - I find it strange that this seems to have become the "main" reason for it not being a good idea to extradite Gary McKinnon (computer hacker guy). I suppose they saw it as something worth trying but much of the press seem to have swallowed it. Of all the reasons not to extradite him, this surely does not rank near the top.

Derek Hazell wrote:"excellent documentary". 9pm BBC3.

Something looks very wrong about having 'excellent documentary' and 'BBC3' in the same piece of text.

I have been diagnosed with dyspraxia, and that probably explains most of my problems. Actually, reading the Wikipedia article on it makes me more sure that it explains 90% of my problems. My co-ordination is especially poor (even my typing, and I'd dread to calculate how many hours I've spent typing) - "clumsy to the point of knocking things over and bumping into people accidentally" as the Wikipedia article puts it. I am also quite over-sensitive to a lot of sounds and feelings - I can't stand the feel of nylon, for example. Weak muscle tone (which causes physical tiredness quickly and emphasises the poor co-ordination) is another thing peculiar to dyspraxia rather than Asperger's which I definitely have.

Peter Mabey wrote:Although I've never been diagnosed with it, I'm sure that it is the reason I have never found the secret of chatting up, so all the girls I've ever fancied have married someone else before I'd even begun to approach them.
It's likely that the problem was exacerbated by the circumstance that at the outbreak of war, I was taken from my boys' school, and sent to a mixed one, where a gang of girls ruled my year. Furthermore I was then living with my grandparents and maiden aunts, so had nobody I could speak to about the problems of puberty.

That's a sad story Peter, and just goes to show how so many of us can find various different supposedly easy or day-to-day activities and social occasions hard, even those of us who have no reason to believe they're on the autistic spectrum.

Maybe this little story from today's Metro will make you smile "Playboy boss Hugh Hefner and his three girlfirends will appears in an advert for Guitar Hero. The 83-year-old will star alongside his lovers Crystal Harris and indeitcal twins Karissa and Kristina Shannon."

There's James Robinson (spoilers thread, 22 April), apologies if he was mentioned earlier in thread but couldn't be arsed checking back right now.

Gavin Chipper wrote:Speaking of Asperger's - I find it strange that this seems to have become the "main" reason for it not being a good idea to extradite Gary McKinnon (computer hacker guy). I suppose they saw it as something worth trying but much of the press seem to have swallowed it. Of all the reasons not to extradite him, this surely does not rank near the top.

It was part of the general angle that McKinnon is a "vulnerable" person, who might be unable to get a fair trial if, for example, US interrogators strongarmed him into a confession. That's not so unreasonable, in my view.

Charlie Reams wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:Speaking of Asperger's - I find it strange that this seems to have become the "main" reason for it not being a good idea to extradite Gary McKinnon (computer hacker guy). I suppose they saw it as something worth trying but much of the press seem to have swallowed it. Of all the reasons not to extradite him, this surely does not rank near the top.

It was part of the general angle that McKinnon is a "vulnerable" person, who might be unable to get a fair trial if, for example, US interrogators strongarmed him into a confession. That's not so unreasonable, in my view.

He has already confessed so I am not sure why this would concern you. Also, although he would stand trial in the US it has been suggested that any sentence would be carried out in the UK.

David O'Donnell wrote: He has already confessed so I am not sure why this would concern you. Also, although he would stand trial in the US it has been suggested that any sentence would be carried out in the UK.

He hasn't confessed to what they want him to confess to. He still says he was just looking for aliens.