c4countdown

Player/Team Assignations
With 32 confirmed entrants, the apterous ratings have been taken (as of about 2:30am) and the players now line up with their teams as follows:




Group Draws
The draw for the group stages is the same as the official draw for the World Cup:



Each team will play each other team in their group once, so each group will feature six matches: AB, AC, AD, BC, BD, CD.
Top two teams in each group will progress to the knockout stages.
The World Cup's group stage runs from 11th June to 25th June, so we'll aim to complete all the group stage matches in these two weeks.


Beyond Group Stages
The knockout stages will again match those of the official World Cup - I'll publish them once the group stages have been decided, but if you want to know the group winners and runners up that are scheduled to meet, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_ ... kout_stage


apterous Gameplay (for Group Stages)
After some initial bandying-about of mad ideas for a football-style goals system, it's a more simple scoring that has been decided on.

Group stages matches will take place over ONE single custom game - 7 rounds in the format of LLNLLLN, scored with Winners Only scoring.
Winners Only scoring = whoever gets the longest word or closest numbers solution gets 1 point for the round, if both players match they both get 1 point.

The score at the end of the 7 rounds is the score that goes into the group stage league tables.
So if the score after 7 rounds is say, 4-4, this is a 4-4 draw, and although apterous will require the two players to finish the game with a tiebreaking conundrum, the point for whoever gets the conundrum will not count, and the game remains a 4-4 draw as far as the AWC is concerned.

Charlie has very kindled added Apterous World Cup as a new custom game format to make it easy to start the games.
Click on the player you are up against on the player list on the left. Click Custom Game (next to the normal Challenge <player-name> button). Click Apterous World Cup.

I blame Josh Hurst for this.

Matt Morrison wrote: apterous Gameplay
I'm still thinking about this - trying to maybe produce some weird way of doing short custom matches that count as goals if they match certain criteria... but if I don't have any groundbreaking and not-too-complicated ideas (suggestions gratefully received, preferably by PM) that will work well, it'll probably be best-of-3 9-round games. Stay tuned, still a few days for me to work on something!

Looks cool. Personally I'd just pick something and go for it, I'm itching to get started!

If you're interested in increasing the chance of upsets - why do best of 3?

Edit: Since we already have the summer open as a 'serious' tournament, I think you can get away with this tournament being a bit light-hearted. If you do short games to increase upset chances, this also means people haven't invested too much time in the whole thing.

Michael Wallace wrote:If you're interested in increasing the chance of upsets - why do best of 3?

This.

Just one game means if you under perform then tough luck. Also flat scoring evens it out making a mistake very costly, like in a football match sometimes. LLNLLLLNLL?

Thanks guys.

The OP has now been updated to give details of the game system we are going to use, at least for the group stages (possibly beyond).
It will be a 7 round LLLNLLN game, with Winners Only scoring, and the score after those 7 rounds is the final score that enters the league tables, so draws are possible.

Please scroll up and look at the bottom of my original post for more details as and when I can give them.

I'll publish a group stage fixtures/results grid before today is out, so we could begin as early as tomorrow on the group stage matches if people want to get stuck in. Exciting.

Matt Morrison wrote:I'll publish a group stage fixtures/results grid before today is out, so we could begin as early as tomorrow on the group stage matches if people want to get stuck in. Exciting.

Nice one Matt! At first i thought no flat scoring means less chance of an upset for an outsider like me, but then, 7 rounds with no conundrum is quite short, so I would hazard a guess that there will be a good few draws. I like that i'm the outsider in the actual world cup's so called group of death! Be careful, cos I've got the nukes...

Tell me more...

Matt Morrison wrote: It will be a 7 round LLLNLLN game, with Winners Only scoring, and the score after those 7 rounds is the final score that enters the league tables, so draws are possible.

This format, named "Apterous World Cup", has now been added to the bottom of the Custom Game menu.

Cool. Nice one Charlie. The games are so fast, we could nearly do this in one night... It would be quite cool if we all logged on at the same time, so we could watch the games we're not playing... we could at least have the first round sorted on the first night...

that said, it's unlikely all 32 will be free at the same time...

Charlie Reams wrote:

Matt Morrison wrote: It will be a 7 round LLLNLLN game, with Winners Only scoring, and the score after those 7 rounds is the final score that enters the league tables, so draws are possible.

This format, named "Apterous World Cup", has now been added to the bottom of the Custom Game menu.

Major love. Edited the OP to include this information along with more detailed "how to start a custom game" type stuff for the uninitiated.

Matt Morrison wrote: Winners Only scoring = whoever gets the longest word or closest numbers solution gets 1 point for the round, if both players match they both get 1 point.

If you'd like more football-like scores, perhaps if both players match in a round then neither should get a point. Moaning about dull 0-0 draws is part of the fun.

Matthew Tassier wrote:

Matt Morrison wrote: Winners Only scoring = whoever gets the longest word or closest numbers solution gets 1 point for the round, if both players match they both get 1 point.

If you'd like more football-like scores, perhaps if both players match in a round then neither should get a point. Moaning about dull 0-0 draws is part of the fun.

A nice idea. But part of the reason I ended up choosing what I did was to keep it simple - to make the games very easy to look at and instantly say "that was the score".
Although they'd look more football-y if matching counted as 0 each rather than 1 each, it requires more thinking and as the group results would still end up the same, it has to be seen as unnecessary complication.

Group D:

Germany 7 - 6 Ghana (1-0)

I (incorrectly) assumed Stuart would have a 6 in round 4, a decision that ultimately cost Ghana a surprise draw

Morribund.

England?! Of all the bloody teams!

Eoin Monaghan wrote:England?! Of all the bloody teams!

But for 3 ratings points, you would have been France.

When you put it like that...

What a Knockout Game if Kirk comes first and Innis second in their groups, or vice versa!

By the way Matt, this a phenomenal thing you have done here, thanks very much.

Thanks Marc for the idea too.

Eoin Monaghan wrote:By the way Matt, this a phenomenal thing you have done here, thanks very much.

Thanks Marc for the idea too.

I'm surprised nobody thought of it sooner.
kudos to Matt for bringing this to life so soon.
AWESOME

Eoin Monaghan wrote:England?! Of all the bloody teams!

We couldn't have an actual Englishman representing England. It just wouldn't be right!

FORZA ITALIA!!

Can we have a Player and Goal of the Tournament thingy?

Best goal would be best word and Top Player would not necessarily be the winner, but the person who surprised many.

Golden Pencil?

for the knockout stages, if there is a draw, how is this separated. My idea was to have an extra 4 rounds (as in extra time) and if there is still no winner a conundrum attack, where each player takes it in turns. Instead of going for the same conundrum they have individual conundrums, one after the other, at the end of that if there is still no winner then sudden death.

Just musings really!!

Lloyd Pettet wrote:for the knockout stages, if there is a draw, how is this separated. My idea was to have an extra 4 rounds (as in extra time) and if there is still no winner a conundrum attack, where each player takes it in turns. Instead of going for the same conundrum they have individual conundrums, one after the other, at the end of that if there is still no winner then sudden death.

Just musings really!!

You're pretty much bang on with my thinking, Lloyd.
Extra time would probably be an additional LLNL. Conundrum shoot-out would be 10 conundrums I reckon (like 10 penalties), obviously with sudden death individual conundrums after that if its tied after 10!

Do people think the Round of 16 (the first knockout stage after the group stages) should still be 7 rounds of LLLNLLN, or maybe extended to 9 round LLLNLLLNL?

If this was adhered to, the structure could continue in such a fashion:
Group Stages - 7 round game - LLNLLLN
Round of 16 - 9 round game - LLLNLLLNL > extra time 4rds LLNL > 10 penundrums
Quarter Finals- 12 round game - LLLNLLLNLLLN > extra time 5rds LLNLL > 10 penundrums
Semi Finals - 16 round game - LLLNLLLNLLLNLLLN > extra time 6rds LLNLLN > 10 penundrums
Final - 21 round game - LLLNLLLNLLLNLLLNLLLNL > extra time 7rds LLNLLNL > 10 penundrums

Positive feedback, etc.?

I kinda like the idea of it being LLLNLLN all the way through - like I've said before, there's a 'serious' tournament on the horizon, so why not keep this in the spirit of the cup? The World Cup Final is just as long as a group game, after all.

Matt Morrison wrote:

Lloyd Pettet wrote:for the knockout stages, if there is a draw, how is this separated. My idea was to have an extra 4 rounds (as in extra time) and if there is still no winner a conundrum attack, where each player takes it in turns. Instead of going for the same conundrum they have individual conundrums, one after the other, at the end of that if there is still no winner then sudden death.

Just musings really!!

You're pretty much bang on with my thinking, Lloyd.
Extra time would probably be an additional LLNL. Conundrum shoot-out would be 10 conundrums I reckon (like 10 penalties), obviously with sudden death individual conundrums after that if its tied after 10!

Do people think the Round of 16 (the first knockout stage after the group stages) should still be 7 rounds of LLLNLLN, or maybe extended to 9 round LLLNLLLNL?

If this was adhered to, the structure could continue in such a fashion:
Group Stages - 7 round game - LLNLLLN
Round of 16 - 9 round game - LLLNLLLNL > extra time 4rds LLNL > 10 penundrums
Quarter Finals- 12 round game - LLLNLLLNLLLN > extra time 5rds LLNLL > 10 penundrums
Semi Finals - 16 round game - LLLNLLLNLLLNLLLN > extra time 6rds LLNLLN > 10 penundrums
Final - 21 round game - LLLNLLLNLLLNLLLNLLLNL > extra time 7rds LLNLLNL > 10 penundrums

Positive feedback, etc.?

Not that I'm playing, but I would have all matches the same length, as in football (finals aren't longer than normal games). Also it might be a bit late now, but I wouldn't have 7 rounds. I'd want it to be an even number for a "game of two halves". Extra time would also be symmetrical.

Michael Wallace wrote:I kinda like the idea of it being LLLNLLN all the way through - like I've said before, there's a 'serious' tournament on the horizon, so why not keep this in the spirit of the cup? The World Cup Final is just as long as a group game, after all.

Cool, I'm alright with that then. Good reasoning too.

LLNLLLN for all matches.
Pick Apterous World Cup in the custom game menu.

After group stages, a draw (as before, judged after 7 rounds, not including apterous-enforced tie break conundrum) will lead to extra time of LLNL.
This will need to be set up as a Full Custom game, with alternating picking, which isn't hard at all, but ask me via PM if you need a hand or check out the appropriate bit on the apterous help section.

If still equal after extra time, penalties will be in the form of 10 conundrums. The sudden death 11th-and-onwards conundrum(s) WILL count to settle it if still tied.
Again, the ten conundrum game will need to be set up as a Full Custom game.

I'll repeat this information when the thread for the Knockout Stages opens.

Gavin Chipper wrote:Not that I'm playing, but I would have all matches the same length, as in football (finals aren't longer than normal games). Also it might be a bit late now, but I wouldn't have 7 rounds. I'd want it to be an even number for a "game of two halves". Extra time would also be symmetrical.

Yeah, good points. Too late of course, but yeah 8 rounds LLLNLLLN or LLNLLLNL (I like the idea of finishing on a letters round because they tend to be less 'obvious' and thus more of an exciting finish) would be a good choice for next time round. Mind you, in a football match extra time is an extra 1/3 of a match of course, not an extra 1/2 so for that to fit you'd need to do 6 rounds (over too quick) or 12 rounds (slightly too long in terms of making upsets less likely).

Anyway, all a learning process and we'll have 2 years to get it right for the next Euro Championships

*sob*

Any reason it's 10 penundrums rather than 5? Not that I mind, but you know.

just with the penundrums bit, would it be more interesting if player 1 goes for the first conundrum, player 2 for the second, vice versa, more like real penalties. It is just a bit different from a standard conundrum attack, and levels the playing field a bit against seasoned conundrum players vs ordinary conundrum players

Good idea Lloyd.

Lloyd Pettet wrote:just with the penundrums bit, would it be more interesting if player 1 goes for the first conundrum, player 2 for the second, vice versa, more like real penalties. It is just a bit different from a standard conundrum attack, and levels the playing field a bit against seasoned conundrum players vs ordinary conundrum players

That sounds cool but it introduces a lot of volatility in terms of the conundrum difficulty, which I can imagine being super annoying.

How about an award for the best match report too? Sort of like the Fair Play Award.
Although we should probably set a word limit given how verbose some people are!

Lloyd Pettet wrote:
just with the penundrums bit, would it be more interesting if player 1 goes for the first conundrum, player 2 for the second, vice versa, more like real penalties. It is just a bit different from a standard conundrum attack, and levels the playing field a bit against seasoned conundrum players vs ordinary conundrum players

That sounds cool but it introduces a lot of volatility in terms of the conundrum difficulty, which I can imagine being super annoying.

Thats part of the penalty lottery, and could favour or hinder either person

Charlie Reams wrote:Any reason it's 10 penundrums rather than 5? Not that I mind, but you know.

I just thought 10 as there are 10 penalties in the standard penalty shootout...

Lloyd Pettet wrote:

Charlie Reams wrote:

Lloyd Pettet wrote:just with the penundrums bit, would it be more interesting if player 1 goes for the first conundrum, player 2 for the second, vice versa, more like real penalties. It is just a bit different from a standard conundrum attack, and levels the playing field a bit against seasoned conundrum players vs ordinary conundrum players

That sounds cool but it introduces a lot of volatility in terms of the conundrum difficulty, which I can imagine being super annoying.

Thats part of the penalty lottery, and could favour or hinder either person

...but then I like Lloyd's idea. The difficulty changes could swing either way, and is quite penalty-shootout-like in its unpredictability. The two players could agree on who goes first before the first penundrum is taken, and what happens happens. May the best AND luckiest team win.

Of course, everyone will have to be fully hands-off-keyboard when its their opponent's shot, and resist all normal conundrum urges. Also some could arguably not want to deliberately not answer conundrums as it might skew their stats?

Overall, probably best to just canvas more opinion here, and we'll see what most people like the sound of by the end of the group stages.

It just seems like the kind of volatility which is annoying rather than fun.

Honduras are out already.

So, stuff it.

Charlie Reams wrote:It just seems like the kind of volatility which is annoying rather than fun.

Yeah. Hmm. I'm easy, but I do agree with you now that if it is just normal conundrums then 5 rather than 10 for sure.

Now I'm ready to take on Argarnertina in the second round.

Ben Wilson wrote:Now I'm ready to take on Argarnertina in the second round.

YES! YES! YES! This is awesome!