c4countdown

Inter Milan and AC Milan play each other in the champions league. They famously share a stadium. Away goals don't count any more but if they did there could have been a chance that someone could be knocked out on away goals while playing in their own stadium. Was wondering if this had ever happened before?

Mark James wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:29 pm Inter Milan and AC Milan play each other in the champions league. They famously share a stadium. Away goals don't count any more but if they did there could have been a chance that someone could be knocked out on away goals while playing in their own stadium. Was wondering if this had ever happened before?

I'm not sure if Roma have ever played Lazio

Edit this
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soc ... 21834.html

Mark James wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:29 pm Inter Milan and AC Milan play each other in the champions league. They famously share a stadium. Away goals don't count any more but if they did there could have been a chance that someone could be knocked out on away goals while playing in their own stadium. Was wondering if this had ever happened before?

I think this happened the last time they met in Europe. 1-1 and 2-2 or something like that.

How can teams share a stadium? Aren't there ever fixture clashes?

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:28 pm How can teams share a stadium? Aren't there ever fixture clashes?

It can't be that difficult to keep fixtures apart. Man Utd and Man City never have home games on the same day. The police wouldn't allow it.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:28 pm How can teams share a stadium? Aren't there ever fixture clashes?

There have been many instances of ground sharing in England.
Charlton Athletic shared with West Ham and Crystal Palace in the 80s

When Gary Fahrenheit was devising his temperature scale, what's with the random placing of the 0?

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:09 pm When Gary Fahrenheit was devising his temperature scale, what's with the random placing of the 0?

I believe 0 degrees Fahrenheit was defined as the freezing point of a salt + water solution of a certain concentration, which can stay liquid much colder than pure water can. This is also why doing that YouTube challenge of putting salt and ice on your hand for X minutes is such a bad idea.

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:09 pm When Gary Fahrenheit was devising his temperature scale, what's with the random placing of the 0?

Water and ammonium chloride mixture freezes at 0 degrees F

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:09 pm When Gary Fahrenheit was devising his temperature scale, what's with the random placing of the 0?

I thought the intention was that 0 to 100 was the range between likely minimum and maximum possible temperatures wherever he lived. But he then needed to find something measurable that roughly coincided with those. Body temperature was handy for 100. I'm guessing there wasn't any great accuracy involved initially. The whole idea of measuring temperature could have been a novelty, and most people probably thought it was pointless.

Seems like he missed an obvious trick, though. Coulda been the ubiquitous one with a bit more forethought. Silly Gary.

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:23 pm Seems like he missed an obvious trick, though. Coulda been the ubiquitous one with a bit more forethought. Silly Gary.

Fortunately for him there was one thing Andy Celsius didn't think of.

I like a tuna sandwich and I like pasta dishes but I gag at the smell and taste of a tuna pasta dish.
It could be a cheese and pineapple type thing but sweet and savoury combos make more sense when not liking them together but tuna and pasta sounds OK on paper.

What is it about peanuts that can be so damn deathy? Why's it not like that with turnips, marzipan, fish fingers, watercress, etc?

Can ghosts be sarcastic?

Do worms faint? If not, why not?

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:54 am What is it about peanuts that can be so damn deathy? Why's it not like that with turnips, marzipan, fish fingers, watercress, etc?

There are other things as well. A friend of mine nearly died (went into cardiac arrest) as a baby when he had a vaccination because it had egg in it, and it turned out he had a massive egg allergy. Interestingly he's allergic to tree nuts as well, but not peanuts (even though it rhymes), because apparently peanuts definitely aren't nuts, let alone tree nuts. But that's also weird - that you have these two things that seem like they're the same thing but definitely aren't but also are both potent allergens but in different people (well probably some people are allergic to both).

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:55 am Can ghosts be sarcastic?

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of sarcasm in the sitcom. I'm not sure how realistic it is though. Perhaps true ghosts just go "Wooooooo", and that might be harder to do sarcastically.

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:55 am Do worms faint? If not, why not?

I don't know.

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:55 am Do worms faint? If not, why not?

I assume you mean earthworms, although I doubt the answer is different for other worms.

Fainting is when blood pressure drops, giving insufficient blood to the brain.

Lots of good wormy facts

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~rlenet/Earthworms.html

Weirdly doesn't mention brains, but they have five hearts!!

Other sites suggest that "cerebral ganglions function as a simple brain". I suspect worms do not faint, but in any case are not intelligent enough to know if they did.

It's quite difficult to tell one end of a worm from the other. Probably doesn't matter much unless you want to kiss one, in which case you'd need to know whether you were being romantic or sycophantic ...

Well now you've just made it weird.

I thought a worm was going to go one way but then it went another way so they can feint.

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 12:05 pm Well now you've just made it weird.

Happy to help.

Why do tennis players apologise when they hit a return and it clips the top of the net for a winner? For me, this is the equivalent of an in off the post in football, or a double in snooker,

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:32 pm Why do tennis players apologise when they hit a return and it clips the top of the net for a winner? For me, this is the equivalent of an in off the post in football, or a double in snooker,

It's just one of those "etiquette" things that seems to have been grandfathered in. A football player would look strange if they apologised for an off-the-post (who would they apologise to, exactly? the keeper? In any case, the keeper is already beaten at the point that the ball goes in off the post, so it's not really made a huge difference - more like a ball just clipping the line in tennis). Snooker players often play doubles intentionally and I'm pretty sure if a snooker player benefits from a fluke, it's considered etiquette to hold their hand up to apologise.

I admit that it is a bit odd - I play tennis and I'm never really sorry for my flukes (I might feel a bit bad if it comes after a long rally that my opponent worked hard in, but ultimately I'm going to feel relieved that I won the point), in the same way that my opponents aren't sorry for their's. Everybody knows this, so it's really just a formality that is done out of convention as opposed to any rational thought.

You don't normally see it for, say, a drop shot that just sneaks over. Touching the net doesn't make a lot of difference there. It's when a shot an inch higher would be an easy return from the back of the court, an inch lower would be in the net, but that precise unintentional shot is a winner. It's more of an acknowledgement that a bad shot has been rewarded, not really an apology.

Compare it to a hole in one at golf. Obviously lucky, but it's what you were trying to do. Unless the ball would have gone forty metres past, but hit the flag and dropped in. And then you probably would acknowledge that to your opponent.

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:32 pm Why do tennis players apologise when they hit a return and it clips the top of the net for a winner? For me, this is the equivalent of an in off the post in football, or a double in snooker,

More like a fluke in snooker than a double

Yeah, it's the fluke thing. If a football goes in off the post it's not quite the same. It's just that someone has kicked the ball at the very edge of the acceptable range to score. A ball hitting the net and scraping over is completely unintended.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:05 pm Yeah, it's the fluke thing. If a football goes in off the post it's not quite the same. It's just that someone has kicked the ball at the very edge of the acceptable range to score. A ball hitting the net and scraping over is completely unintended.

A wicked deflection is the same as a fluke but that's a team game so doesn't compare.
Same with golf and a hole in one not comparable to a flukey net cord as its a point won.

Also, do tennis players apologise when they hit an opponent with the ball?

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:11 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:05 pm Yeah, it's the fluke thing. If a football goes in off the post it's not quite the same. It's just that someone has kicked the ball at the very edge of the acceptable range to score. A ball hitting the net and scraping over is completely unintended.

A wicked deflection is the same as a fluke but that's a team game so doesn't compare.
Same with golf and a hole in one not comparable to a flukey net cord as its a point won.

Also, do tennis players apologise when they hit an opponent with the ball?

If it's likely to have hurt, yes. In the same way you'd apologise if you spilt your coffee on someone. I once had someone thwack a first serve right in to my shoulder, and you can bet they did for that

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:04 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:11 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:05 pm Yeah, it's the fluke thing. If a football goes in off the post it's not quite the same. It's just that someone has kicked the ball at the very edge of the acceptable range to score. A ball hitting the net and scraping over is completely unintended.

A wicked deflection is the same as a fluke but that's a team game so doesn't compare.
Same with golf and a hole in one not comparable to a flukey net cord as its a point won.

Also, do tennis players apologise when they hit an opponent with the ball?

If it's likely to have hurt, yes. In the same way you'd apologise if you spilt your coffee on someone. I once had someone thwack a first serve right in to my shoulder, and you can bet they did for that

Yes but hitting your opponent with the is a legitimate play

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:03 pm

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:32 pm Why do tennis players apologise when they hit a return and it clips the top of the net for a winner? For me, this is the equivalent of an in off the post in football, or a double in snooker,

More like a fluke in snooker than a double

A fluke is slightly different as it involves a degree of luck. A tennis player is usually attempting to keep the ball as close to the net as possible, and clipping the net, but still going over is achieving that.

I understand the etiquette, so in the truth is I already know the answer to this question, but I find it interesting. My first sporting love is football, where no-one apologises fo anything.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 9:25 pm Yes but hitting your opponent with the is a legitimate play

If you had a desire to play a sport where you could legally hit your opponent a lot then you'd pick boxing, not tennis. No tennis player would consider it a good tactic to try and smash the ball and hit the opponent. Not only does it make you look like an arsehole, it also has great potential to backfire.

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:36 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:03 pm

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:32 pm Why do tennis players apologise when they hit a return and it clips the top of the net for a winner? For me, this is the equivalent of an in off the post in football, or a double in snooker,

More like a fluke in snooker than a double

A fluke is slightly different as it involves a degree of luck. A tennis player is usually attempting to keep the ball as close to the net as possible, and clipping the net, but still going over is achieving that.

I understand the etiquette, so in the truth is I already know the answer to this question, but I find it interesting. My first sporting love is football, where no-one apologises fo anything.

It's not really achieving what was intended though. You're generally aiming for a reasonable net clearance as going too close has a high risk of netting (or hitting the top and actually giving your opponent an easier shot if it loops up and drops nicely as a result). It's objectively a bad shot if you clip the top and drop over, when you was actually trying to power a shot down the line. The opponent might have got to the intended shot, whereas the diversion gave them no chance.

It's not really a "bad shot" in football if you hit the post and go in - you was aiming to place the ball as far out of the keeper's reach as you could, and though you might not have been going for quite such a slim margin of error, you still succeeded in what you aimed to do. A tennis player wouldn't apologise if a shot hit the very outside edge of the line - they probably weren't aiming for such a fine margin, but the general idea of "hit as far out of the reach of the opponent as possible" has still been satisfied, and it probably wouldn't have made a difference if it was an inch further inside the court, in the same way it probably wouldn't make a difference if a football was an inch further inside the post.

I've spent far too much time articulating this minutiae for no apparent reason, but then again I spend most of my life on pointless tasks anyway.

Yes, there's a discontinuity between just missing the net and it hitting it and going over, so it's not the same thing but better like it would be if you catch the outside of the line versus hitting it well inside the court. It's not what you've gone for. You've won the point because the tiny (fluke) difference made the ball disproportionately harder to return. You got lucky and you're just acknowledging that to your opponent.

There might be wider reasons why footballers generally wouldn't acknowledge such things, but it's definitely not the same as scoring off the post anyway.

What is it with this really weird singing voice that some people have adopted in recent years? It's difficult to describe except that there seems to be something a bit piratey about it. But to give some examples - Lewis Capaldi, Tom Walker*, Jess Glynne, and not forgetting Adele, although hers is probably not the most pronounced.

*Not Jonathan Pie.

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:54 am

It's not really achieving what was intended though. You're generally aiming for a reasonable net clearance as going too close has a high risk of netting (or hitting the top and actually giving your opponent an easier shot if it loops up and drops nicely as a result). It's objectively a bad shot if you clip the top and drop over, when you was actually trying to power a shot down the line. The opponent might have got to the intended shot, whereas the diversion gave them no chance.

Thanks. This answers my question perfectly. I may continue this on the "Really Obvious Things You've Just Realised" thread.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:39 pm What is it with this really weird singing voice that some people have adopted in recent years? It's difficult to describe except that there seems to be something a bit piratey about it. But to give some examples - Lewis Capaldi, Tom Walker*, Jess Glynne, and not forgetting Adele, although hers is probably not the most pronounced.

*Not Jonathan Pie.

It's what the kids of today seem to like.
Jess Glynne is more of a warble but Tom Walker is one of the worst.

The thing with singing I found difficult to grasp is the American accent.
Yes there are exceptions like Lily Allen and Kate Nash but I remember The Bay City Rollers had a TV show in the seventies and the lead singers Scottish accent was incomprehensible yet his singing voice was clear and an American twang

When it's appropriate to spell out numbers in a sentence rather than just write the numbers.
For example : Top ten singles in 1984 is better somehow than top 10 singles in 1984.

Is there a hard and fast rule?

Per AP style, you write out numbers up to and including nine, then use numbers for 10 and upwards.

I've seen this before but it looks really clumsy if you have numbers either side of the cut-off in the same sentence.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:03 am Top ten singles in 1984 is better somehow than top 10 singles in 1984

This made me think of another one: why do we not put a comma to separate the thousands when talking about years?

Fred Mumford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:43 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:03 am Top ten singles in 1984 is better somehow than top 10 singles in 1984

This made me think of another one: why do we not put a comma to separate the thousands when talking about years?

I guess because of the way we say them. 19 84 rather than 1,984. But maybe we say them like that because there's no comma....

why did evolution make mossie/midgie/other annoying insect bites itch?

I'd be happy enough for mossies to feed off me if it didn't itch like a bastard afterwards. Must make them much more likely to get killed/swatted

Doesn't the itch only come on later?

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:06 am Per AP style, you write out numbers up to and including nine, then use numbers for 10 and upwards.

Unless they start a sentence, then words for any number.

Fiona T wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:49 am why did evolution make mossie/midgie/other annoying insect bites itch?

I'd be happy enough for mossies to feed off me if it didn't itch like a bastard afterwards. Must make them much more likely to get killed/swatted

Depends on the person. Mossie and midge bites don't bother me at all, but black fly (as far as I can tell) give me weeping weals for a week afterwards, even (after I discovered last week) if I wear leggings.

Fiona T wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:49 am why did evolution make mossie/midgie/other annoying insect bites itch?

I'd be happy enough for mossies to feed off me if it didn't itch like a bastard afterwards. Must make them much more likely to get killed/swatted

Maybe you've answered your own question there - it's your body's way of alerting you to the threat.

The itching caused by mosquito bites is due to the release of histamine in response to the mosquito saliva. By the time you start to itch, the mosquito is long gone.

If you find that you are often targeted by mosquitos when people sat with you are left untouched, it may be because of a lack of Vitamin B in your skin. You may benefit from taking Vit B Co Forte before, and during, your trip abroad.

Ian Volante wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:52 am

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:06 am Per AP style, you write out numbers up to and including nine, then use numbers for 10 and upwards.

Unless they start a sentence, then words for any number.

Or represent dates

Why is it that on a forum of several dozen members, half the topics seem to be created by one person? It seems to be the case on every forum I'm on. I'm sure there's some sort of law for it (similar to the square root law of the work force?)

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:12 pm Why is it that on a forum of several dozen members, half the topics seem to be created by one person? It seems to be the case on every forum I'm on. I'm sure there's some sort of law for it (similar to the square root law of the work force?)

The Pareto Principle, there's some really fun examples of it outside boring productiony stuff too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:12 pm Why is it that on a forum of several dozen members, half the topics seem to be created by one person? It seems to be the case on every forum I'm on. I'm sure there's some sort of law for it (similar to the square root law of the work force?)

Marc Meakin is on a lot of forums?

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:41 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:12 pm Why is it that on a forum of several dozen members, half the topics seem to be created by one person? It seems to be the case on every forum I'm on. I'm sure there's some sort of law for it (similar to the square root law of the work force?)

The Pareto Principle, there's some really fun examples of it outside boring productiony stuff too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

That's it. I knew there was a term.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:57 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:12 pm Why is it that on a forum of several dozen members, half the topics seem to be created by one person? It seems to be the case on every forum I'm on. I'm sure there's some sort of law for it (similar to the square root law of the work force?)

Marc Meakin is on a lot of forums?

I bet I'm still not top of the posting charts yet.
Yes that is your cue for and update Gev

In the movies we often see someone (most elegantly Catherine 'KEVIN' O'Hara in Home Alone 2, of course) pass out and fall backwards onto a hard floor. How can anyone possibly survive such a fall? If you're stiff, your head will be the first to hit the floor, so doesn't it direct your entire body weight straight into the one small spot on your skull (and brain) that makes contact? I'm guessing the maters - dura and pia.

Johnny Canuck wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:55 pm In the movies we often see someone (most elegantly Catherine, of course) pass out and fall backwards onto a hard floor. How is it even plausible to survive such a fall? If you're stiff, your head will be the first to hit the floor, so doesn't it direct your entire body weight straight into the one small spot on your skull (and brain) that makes contact? I'm guessing the maters (dura and pia) have something to do with it.

Movie-wise I can say they don't film themselves hitting the floor, but just them falling offscreen onto some mat. The reason why we hear the sound is because the sound engineer(s) dressed it up with the sound in post-prod, which is Foley I believe.

In reality, I have no fucking idea.

Johnny Canuck wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:55 pm In the movies we often see someone (most elegantly Catherine, of course) pass out and fall backwards onto a hard floor. How can anyone possibly survive such a fall? If you're stiff, your head will be the first to hit the floor, so doesn't it direct your entire body weight straight into the one small spot on your skull (and brain) that makes contact? I'm guessing the maters - dura and pia.

In real life, almost certainly part of your back or your bottom beats your head to the floor. Or at least in an exact tie the weight is distributed. Also falling over by pivoting on your feet is not the same as falling straight down (i.e. not as bad). And you would be horizontal when landing. The rest of your body is not on your head so its weight is not directed onto it.

Edit - Is that the wrong video? No passing out happens.

Also, people DO die like that. Sometimes it's not the punch that kills you; it's hitting your head on the hard pub car park ground. I've ended several like that.

Mark Deeks wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 10:55 pm Also, people DO die like that. Sometimes it's not the punch that kills you; it's hitting your head on the hard pub car park ground. I've ended several like that.

I'm well aware*, I just wasn't sure of the mechanism whereby everyone doesn't

*because I am the GCHQ agent monitoring your pub

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 10:00 pm Edit - Is that the wrong video? No passing out happens.

Edited. Maybe my own brain matter is leaking

Foley was mentioned in the above thread which got me thinking who in their right mind thinks when you bite into a magnum ice cream the noise you hear is real?