c4countdown

As there have been several new topics posted in appreciation of some of last week's TV shows, I couldn't let this one go unremarked. Watched the final two episodes back to back last night and thought it was the most stunningly good TV drama I'd seen in ages. It was epic, gripping, brilliantly sustained, emotionally wrenching, at times genuinely shocking and also deliciously plausible (the Cabinet meeting to decide the fate of the UK's children in episode 4 was the standout scene for me - and to think this was broadcast on the same night as episode 4 of Psychoville: what a great evening to stay in that must have been!).

Oh yeah, and it was full of plot holes and logical inconsistencies. But frankly, when it's this good, who cares?

It did bother me that it took these geniuses a very long time to work out what the weakness of the aliens might be, when it was pretty obvious from their name!

Cabinet meeting was good - the one about starting the Iraq war might have been similar (except Blair didn't have cabinet meetings in case anyone disagreed with him...)

Just been having a look at some of the reviews online, which seem to be overwhelmingly positive (and it apparently got great ratings too). denofgeek.com has this to say about Thursday night's episode, which seems about right:

it produced its most chilling scenes not with the aid of the special effects budget, but with good old fashioned quality writing. The moments around the cabinet table, as scarily plausible arguments were pitched... were as gripping and horrific as anything we’d seen all week (and perhaps all year, too)... That was, and I don’t think I’m underselling it, a stunning piece of television, that not only stakes its claim as Torchwood’s finest hour, but leaves the overwhelming majority of new Doctor Who episodes in its wake too

Phil Reynolds wrote:Oh yeah, and it was full of plot holes and logical inconsistencies. But frankly, when it's this good, who cares?

I have a tolerance for these, but they were just too bad even for my tastes (I think the civil servant guy deciding he needs to kill his kids and himself was one of the worst). It also doesn't help that the acting was bad and the plot was trite (the "they're using the kids for drugs!" 'reveal' was utterly cringeworthy). The ending was one of the most ridiculous arse-pulls I've ever seen, as well.

I am genuinely astonished that this has apparently received so much praise. I watched the first one expecting it to be bad, and then watched the rest to see if it could get any worse, or to see if they were somehow going to save it.

Haha. Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all liked the same things?

(BTW, what's an "arse-pull"? I feel like I should know.)

Phil Reynolds wrote:(BTW, what's an "arse-pull"? I feel like I should know.)

I think Michael was being tongue-in-cheek.

Phil Reynolds wrote:(BTW, what's an "arse-pull"? I feel like I should know.)

The Britishised version of this.

Michael Wallace wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:(BTW, what's an "arse-pull"? I feel like I should know.)

The Britishised version of this.

Oh right. Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm mildly astonished by your assessment; the acting (particularly from the guest cast) was superb throughout, the plot was anything but trite and I don't see how Frobisher's final action constitutes a plot hole (not when there were such gaping genuine ones elsewhere). Yes, the technical details of the ending were arrived at ludicrously quickly (and were basically in the hoary old Doctor Who tradition of "reverse the polarity"), but that wasn't the point; Jack's "Sophie's Choice" decision was the point. As science fiction it may not have amounted to much, but as drama it was powerful and almost uniquely bleak for prime time BBC1.

Phil Reynolds wrote:the acting (particularly from the guest cast) was superb throughout,

I guess that's just a matter of opinion, perhaps the plot affected the believability of the characters for me, and some of that came across as bad acting (but there were definitely plenty of instances where CF and I were laughing at how badly people were coping with a scene).

Phil Reynolds wrote:the plot was anything but trite

How much sci-fi have you read/watched?

Phil Reynolds wrote:and I don't see how Frobisher's final action constitutes a plot hole (not when there were such gaping genuine ones elsewhere).

I picked out that one to highlight a scene which might otherwise have been quite emotionally affecting, except for the poor writing (I suppose it's not really a plot hole per se) ruining it. When the PM said "we're going to use your kids to help convince people this is ok" he could have said "OK" and then left, gone to a TV station (or whatever) and then called the PM back and said "right, you want to use my family for PR reasons on this, now if you're going to do that, I'm going to tell the media". The whole "oh if you tell the world your daughters will know where they're going" doesn't work as a threat here, whereas if they only wanted to involve his kids as a PR exercise* the threat of "you do that and I'll tell the media" is.

*which was ridiculous enough as it was when they then went on to get thousands of soldiers involved (who apparently had been told what was going on as well!)

Phil Reynolds wrote:Yes, the technical details of the ending were arrived at ludicrously quickly (and were basically in the hoary old Doctor Who tradition of "reverse the polarity"), but that wasn't the point; Jack's "Sophie's Choice" decision was the point. As science fiction it may not have amounted to much, but as drama it was powerful and almost uniquely bleak for prime time BBC1.

I suppose it's a case of how easily you can suspend your disbelief. When every scene has some major problem you have to ignore to make the plot in it work, I can't really enjoy it as drama.

Michael Wallace wrote:How much sci-fi have you read/watched?

I suspect the answer to that is: compared to some people on this board, relatively little. But it's like I said before - I judged it by the standards of prime time BBC1 drama, not by those of a Heinlein or Vonnegut novel.

Anyway you and I seem to be the only people interested in talking about it so maybe we should shut up.

Phil Reynolds wrote:

Michael Wallace wrote:How much sci-fi have you read/watched?

I suspect the answer to that is: compared to some people on this board, relatively little. But it's like I said before - I judged it by the standards of prime time BBC1 drama, not by those of a Heinlein or Vonnegut novel.

Anyway you and I seem to be the only people interested in talking about it so maybe we should shut up.

I would have said more John Wyndham (Midwitch Cuckoos)

I really enjoyed it as well, though felt a tad let down by the final episode... particularly the effort spent chasing down the few children hiding out with Gwen et al. Gonna miss Ianto! However, I think criticism needs to be put in context of the (not as sophisticated as us, generally younger) target audience.

It was great to see innovation and adventurousness from the BBC programming department, and on the whole, I think it worked really well.

Something not mentioned yet that really made the series for me was the music... long scenes with no dialogue but a fantastically moving soundtrack and great visuals.

More please!!

Phil Reynolds wrote:Anyway you and I seem to be the only people interested in talking about it

Charlie Brooker, Grace Dent, Frank Skinner and Josie Long were very interested in talking about it, and spent ages doing so!