c4countdown

. . . because there are far too many duplicate letters lately. If the letters were picked using a pseudo-random-number generator, based on frequency in the English language, there would be a much better distribution. Also, why does Jeff not allow the public to guess the Conundrum when no-one else can?
Mike O'R

They are shuffled, not sorted. Duplicate letters are always going to happen. Just the same as getting a pair of Kings at poker really. It doesn't make the game any harder. There's an optimum word to be found in every selection, no matter what the letters are.

Have a look at some of the rounds played on Apterous. What comes out comes out. No science to it at all.

As for the audience conundrum, we've brought that back in for the next series, in late June. Only happens once every now and again anyway as the contestants get most of them, but it's back nonetheless.

D Eadie wrote:As for the audience conundrum, we've brought that back in for the next series, in late June. Only happens once every now and again anyway as the contestants get most of them, but it's back nonetheless.

Damian - I take it the budget pressures have eased, as the overtime bill will no doubt shoot up with all the extra filming time!

Mike O'Regan wrote:. . . because there are far too many duplicate letters lately. If the letters were picked using a pseudo-random-number generator, based on frequency in the English language, there would be a much better distribution. Also, why does Jeff not allow the public to guess the Conundrum when no-one else can?

Mike, before posting questions like these on a board you've just joined, it's a good idea to check and see if they have already been discussed ad nauseam, as indeed both of these have. Damian has answered them both succinctly, but I would just add that while the overall letter distribution in the packs is already roughly correlated to English language frequency, normalising the letter picks for each individual round in this way is a very bad idea indeed; it would mean endless rounds containing a couple of Es, one or two Ts and As etc - great if you want LEOTARDS cropping up in every round, but not otherwise. The beauty of the current shuffling system is that you get plenty of variety. Nice words like DODDERED and VOODOOED, for instance, would never be possible if unlikely duplications were eliminated.

D Eadie wrote:They are shuffled, not sorted. Duplicate letters are always going to happen.

Is this actually true though? I remember a lot of duplicate letters at the CofC and then I think the usual shuffler came back and there weren't so many again. Kirk Bevins would have struggled to score 925 with the CofC shuffling.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

D Eadie wrote:They are shuffled, not sorted. Duplicate letters are always going to happen.

Is this actually true though? I remember a lot of duplicate letters at the CofC and then I think the usual shuffler came back and there weren't so many again. Kirk Bevins would have struggled to score 925 with the CofC shuffling.

All that means is they were still shuffled, but the stand-in person wasn't as good at shuffling as Demi is. It's just like shuffling playing cards - to some it comes naturally, but others can keep on trying and never really get the knack.

Although it is probably harder to do any fancy displays with tile shuffling, as I imagine they are more solid and don't bend so well as playing cards.

Derek Hazell wrote:All that means is they were still shuffled, but the stand-in person wasn't as good at shuffling as Demi is.

Unless it means that they were better at shuffling...

Mike O'Regan wrote:Also, why does Jeff not allow the public to guess the Conundrum when no-one else can?
Mike O'R

This question is asked, and answered, again in today's new Radio Times, this time by Sylvia Ladlow of Portree, Isle of Skye. She even goes so far as to insinuate that the audience isn't even there anymore though!

Phil Reynolds wrote:

Mike O'Regan wrote:. . . because there are far too many duplicate letters lately. If the letters were picked using a pseudo-random-number generator, based on frequency in the English language, there would be a much better distribution. Also, why does Jeff not allow the public to guess the Conundrum when no-one else can?

Mike, before posting questions like these on a board you've just joined, it's a good idea to check and see if they have already been discussed ad nauseam, as indeed both of these have. Damian has answered them both succinctly, but I would just add that while the overall letter distribution in the packs is already roughly correlated to English language frequency, normalising the letter picks for each individual round in this way is a very bad idea indeed; it would mean endless rounds containing a couple of Es, one or two Ts and As etc - great if you want LEOTARDS cropping up in every round, but not otherwise. The beauty of the current shuffling system is that you get plenty of variety. Nice words like DODDERED and VOODOOED, for instance, would never be possible if unlikely duplications were eliminated.

So another Newbie gets splattered by a Kiloposter. Keep smiling Mike

John Bosley wrote:So another Newbie gets splattered by a Kiloposter.

"Splattered"? Hardly. Are we not even allowed to politely disagree with newbies now? Perhaps you could explain the rules. How many posts must someone have made before it's OK to respond with anything other than "Welcome, newbie! Hope you enjoy posting here!"

John Bosley wrote:So another Newbie gets splattered by a Kiloposter. Keep smiling Mike

You seem to be under the impression that very politely telling newbies how to use this place properly is somehow splattering them.

Edit: Ninjaed by Phil.

There is, yes, a very polite way there is also a slightly sarcastic almost impolite way - and many others, but I am now as boring as the original.

Unlucky Phil, looks like you've now been here long enough that the OMG You're So Insensitive police are going to dissect everything you say for latent sarcasm.

John Bosley wrote:There is, yes, a very polite way there is also a slightly sarcastic almost impolite way - and many others, but I am now as boring as the original.

And since the person you quoted chose the polite way, what is your point? Was he supposed to be sarcastic and impolite?

I love everybody.

Ralph Gillions wrote:I love everybody.

Well, nearly everybody.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

D Eadie wrote:They are shuffled, not sorted. Duplicate letters are always going to happen.

Is this actually true though?

No its not true at all, i just lied for the sake of it.

D Eadie wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:

D Eadie wrote:They are shuffled, not sorted. Duplicate letters are always going to happen.

Is this actually true though?

No its not true at all, i just lied for the sake of it.

It wouldn't surprise me. The point being that at various times in Countdown history the amount of duplicate letters hasn't stayed constant. Sometimes it has appeared very much as though letters are sorted, and this was alluded to during the CofC. I don't know why I'm explaining myself though because you know exactly what I'm talking about anyway.

Gev, you know everything.....so you think, so why bother asking questions?

In fact you know more than i do, which is pretty good considering i've helped make about 3,000 editions of the show. Anything else you'd care to put me right on?

D Eadie wrote:Gev, you know everything.....so you think, so why bother asking questions?

In fact you know more than i do, which is pretty good considering i've helped make about 3,000 editions of the show. Anything else you'd care to put me right on?

Football fans always know better than all the players, the manager, the chairman etc. So those of us that don't like football have to transer that part of our brains to something else. Gev just happens to have chosen Countdown.

D Eadie wrote:Gev, you know everything.....so you think, so why bother asking questions?

In fact you know more than i do, which is pretty good considering i've helped make about 3,000 editions of the show. Anything else you'd care to put me right on?

Just looking at an old thread. http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic. ... 375#p25375

David O'Donnell wrote:Damian told the girl who was shuffling that he was sick of seeing A,E,I or O,I,E nearly every selection. It may feel intuitively random but it isn't actually random at all. The old system involved deliberate shuffling so that repitition of letters would be minimised: hardly random. The shuffler was merely told to not cherry pick the letters as she was shuffling and subsequently we had a few bizarre selections. Quite a few of us complained that rather than producing challenging selections this system seemed to be producing dull, flat selections. Damian, to his credit, took these points on board and reverted to the old shuffling system (though, not wholesale) and the selections improve in the next two weeks. I do think Damian had a point though and it definitely made a mockery of my list of stems!

Maybe it's all made up - I dunno.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

D Eadie wrote:Gev, you know everything.....so you think, so why bother asking questions?

In fact you know more than i do, which is pretty good considering i've helped make about 3,000 editions of the show. Anything else you'd care to put me right on?

Just looking at an old thread. http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic. ... 375#p25375

David O'Donnell wrote:Damian told the girl who was shuffling that he was sick of seeing A,E,I or O,I,E nearly every selection. It may feel intuitively random but it isn't actually random at all. The old system involved deliberate shuffling so that repitition of letters would be minimised: hardly random. The shuffler was merely told to not cherry pick the letters as she was shuffling and subsequently we had a few bizarre selections. Quite a few of us complained that rather than producing challenging selections this system seemed to be producing dull, flat selections. Damian, to his credit, took these points on board and reverted to the old shuffling system (though, not wholesale) and the selections improve in the next two weeks. I do think Damian had a point though and it definitely made a mockery of my list of stems!

Maybe it's all made up - I dunno.

I heard they just use apterous bots these days, and the contestants are just models. Not top class models you understand.

[url]test[url]http://www.apterous.org/game.php[/url][/url]