c4countdown

Let me start with :
Breakdancing !!! , really

I see that Wiffin won a swimming gold in the 800m.
(TLDW.) representing Ireland yet he is from Northern Ireland.
I think Rory McIlroy does the same .
How does that work given that a Northerern Irish swimmer won gold for team GB later last night ?

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:37 am I see that Wiffin won a swimming gold in the 800m.
(TLDW.) representing Ireland yet he is from Northern Ireland.
I think Rory McIlroy does the same .
How does that work given that a Northerern Irish swimmer won gold for team GB later last night ?

If you are from Northern Ireland you can represent Ireland or Northern Ireland (and therefore UK/GB where appropriate) at any sport. Was part of the Good Friday Agreement iirc.

Martin Hurst wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:09 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:37 am I see that Wiffin won a swimming gold in the 800m.
(TLDW.) representing Ireland yet he is from Northern Ireland.
I think Rory McIlroy does the same .
How does that work given that a Northerern Irish swimmer won gold for team GB later last night ?

If you are from Northern Ireland you can represent Ireland or Northern Ireland (and therefore UK/GB where appropriate) at any sport. Was part of the Good Friday Agreement iirc.

That makes sense as I hadn't seen any athletes doing this previous to 96 previous .


Fun fact BTW in St Louis in 1904 team GB didn't send a team but Ireland won 2 medals which were recorded as GB medals which is the reason why team GB is the only nation to have won gold at every Olympics

Martin Hurst wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:09 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:37 am I see that Wiffin won a swimming gold in the 800m.
(TLDW.) representing Ireland yet he is from Northern Ireland.
I think Rory McIlroy does the same .
How does that work given that a Northerern Irish swimmer won gold for team GB later last night ?

If you are from Northern Ireland you can represent Ireland or Northern Ireland (and therefore UK/GB where appropriate) at any sport. Was part of the Good Friday Agreement iirc.

I'm not sure it's a good position to be in. You have to make what is essentially a political decision which will likely piss off a large number of people whichever one you choose. Talk about being thrown under a bus.

The Olympics proper starts tomorrow and we have the men's 10,000m final!

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:42 am The Olympics proper starts tomorrow and we have the men's 10,000m final!

I remember when there were heats (and maybe semis in this event )

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:40 am

Martin Hurst wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:09 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:37 am I see that Wiffin won a swimming gold in the 800m.
(TLDW.) representing Ireland yet he is from Northern Ireland.
I think Rory McIlroy does the same .
How does that work given that a Northerern Irish swimmer won gold for team GB later last night ?

If you are from Northern Ireland you can represent Ireland or Northern Ireland (and therefore UK/GB where appropriate) at any sport. Was part of the Good Friday Agreement iirc.

I'm not sure it's a good position to be in. You have to make what is essentially a political decision which will likely piss off a large number of people whichever one you choose. Talk about being thrown under a bus.

Forgive athletes it's a simple choice to increase your chances of representing your chosen country
A bit like when Jack Charlton had the FAI policy.
Find another Irish man that worked in the 80s and 90s

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 10:40 am

Martin Hurst wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 3:09 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 9:37 am I see that Wiffin won a swimming gold in the 800m.
(TLDW.) representing Ireland yet he is from Northern Ireland.
I think Rory McIlroy does the same .
How does that work given that a Northerern Irish swimmer won gold for team GB later last night ?

If you are from Northern Ireland you can represent Ireland or Northern Ireland (and therefore UK/GB where appropriate) at any sport. Was part of the Good Friday Agreement iirc.

I'm not sure it's a good position to be in. You have to make what is essentially a political decision which will likely piss off a large number of people whichever one you choose. Talk about being thrown under a bus.

Footballer James McClean is one I remember that certainly got a lot of abuse when he picked Ireland ahead of Northern Ireland. Rory McIlroy was also getting a lot of heat when it was up in the air which way he would go, but when he chose Ireland ahead of GB he distanced himself from the politics by pointing out that when growing up he played all his junior tournaments within an all-Ireland golf association and got his funding/coaching through them as well.

Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:22 pm Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

It's not something I've been following, but there is this BBC article. This is not about transgender athletes though. I think they may be intersex, but that's a different thing.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:22 pm Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

Trans athletes belong in the ParaOlympics unless they want to fund their own Olympics.

All those women park runners and we haven't got an athlete good enough for the Olympic 5k

Womens BMX.
Wtf happened every heat won by the team GB then comes last in the final.
Not impressed with the gate opening delay but she should have picked gate 1

Ian Fitzpatrick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:33 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:22 pm Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

Trans athletes belong in the ParaOlympics unless they want to fund their own Olympics.

I'm not sure I really care for the insinuation that being transgender is a disability.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:22 pm Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

If you are on about Khelif then she is not transgender and was actually born a female and has a developmental disorder which means she has higher levels of testosterone than the average female. She has every right to complete in the women's Boxing event and they are no safety concerns with her competing whatsoever. Her boxing record is good but nothing special and she has registered barely any KOs in her career. There has been so much misinformation about this in the media and this needs correcting.

Martin Long wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:17 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:22 pm Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

If you are on about Khelif then she is not transgender and was actually born a female and has a developmental disorder which means she has higher levels of testosterone than the average female. She has every right to complete in the women's Boxing event and they are no safety concerns with her competing whatsoever. Her boxing record is good but nothing special and she has registered barely any KOs in her career. There has been so much misinformation about this in the media and this needs correcting.

Yes I have learned that she is intersex.
Though she was banned from the World Championship for having too much testosterone , so what's changed ?

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:30 am

Martin Long wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:17 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:22 pm Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

If you are on about Khelif then she is not transgender and was actually born a female and has a developmental disorder which means she has higher levels of testosterone than the average female. She has every right to complete in the women's Boxing event and they are no safety concerns with her competing whatsoever. Her boxing record is good but nothing special and she has registered barely any KOs in her career. There has been so much misinformation about this in the media and this needs correcting.

Yes I have learned that she is intersex.
Though she was banned from the World Championship for having too much testosterone , so what's changed ?

The Olympics and the World Championships have different rulings on this. I believe she was banned from the World Championships because she failed a gender test due to the testosterone levels but I have heard that this test was conducted by the Russian IBA - not exactly the most trustworthy of bodies. I would trust the Olympic committee's rulings moreso. I am also reluctant to call Khelif intersex - she was born a female, wants to remain female and therefore should be categorised as a female.

You might have expand on your mistrust of The Russian IBA.
Is that because Russia = bad because of the war or because you don't think Russian boxers are clean ?

Martin Long wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:38 am
The Olympics and the World Championships have different rulings on this. I believe she was banned from the World Championships because she failed a gender test due to the testosterone levels but I have heard that this test was conducted by the Russian IBA - not exactly the most trustworthy of bodies. I would trust the Olympic committee's rulings moreso. I am also reluctant to call Khelif intersex - she was born a female, wants to remain female and therefore should be categorised as a female.

My understanding is that she might have XY chromosomes (I'm not sure this has been established), while being outwardly female, which is why people use the term intersex. Sometimes the term DSD (differences/disorders in/of sex development) is used, but I'm not sure if that is necessarily the preferred term in general.

In the 2016 Olympics in Rio, the entire top 3 of the women's 800m were intersex/DSD and had high testosterone levels. The rules now say that they would have to take testosterone-suppressing drugs to compete. So:

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:30 am Yes I have learned that she is intersex.
Though she was banned from the World Championship for having too much testosterone , so what's changed ?

This may also be the case here. I dunno though.

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:12 am

Ian Fitzpatrick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:33 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:22 pm Probably goes against the grain with regards inclusively but am I the only one not happy with Trans boxers in the women's event ?

Trans athletes belong in the ParaOlympics unless they want to fund their own Olympics.

I'm not sure I really care for the insinuation that being transgender is a disability.

I'm not sure I really care for the insinuation that a disability is a bad thing.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 12:09 pm You might have expand on your mistrust of The Russian IBA.
Is that because Russia = bad because of the war or because you don't think Russian boxers are clean ?

The IBA refused to publish the results of her gender tests. There is that and a general mistrust.

Martin Long wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 4:39 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 12:09 pm You might have expand on your mistrust of The Russian IBA.
Is that because Russia = bad because of the war or because you don't think Russian boxers are clean ?

The IBA refused to publish the results of her gender tests. There is that and a general mistrust.

I see she has guaranteed herself a medal.

One thing I can't understand was the furore over Caster Samenya , considering the likes Kratotchvilova in the 80s who was obviously on steroids

I've noticed in recent years there is more emphasis on an elite standard rather than competing for your country.
So no more Eric the Eeel and no Brithish representatives in the athletics throwing events.

Also mixed events , a good thing
Reperchage not sure it's good thing

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 1:04 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:12 am

Ian Fitzpatrick wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:33 am

Trans athletes belong in the ParaOlympics unless they want to fund their own Olympics.

I'm not sure I really care for the insinuation that being transgender is a disability.

I'm not sure I really care for the insinuation that a disability is a bad thing.

"The Equality Act 2010 defines disability as a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. The Act defines ‘substantial’ as being more than minor or trivial – for example, if it takes much longer than it usually would to complete a daily task like getting dressed. ‘Long-term’ is defined as lasting for a period of 12 months or more – for example, a breathing condition that develops as a result of a lung infection."

To call something a disability is to imply that it impairs a person in some way. There's a great difference between expressly viewing people with such impairments negatively, and saying something IS an impairment.

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:33 am

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 1:04 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 11:12 am

I'm not sure I really care for the insinuation that being transgender is a disability.

I'm not sure I really care for the insinuation that a disability is a bad thing.

"The Equality Act 2010 defines disability as a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. The Act defines ‘substantial’ as being more than minor or trivial – for example, if it takes much longer than it usually would to complete a daily task like getting dressed. ‘Long-term’ is defined as lasting for a period of 12 months or more – for example, a breathing condition that develops as a result of a lung infection."

To call something a disability is to imply that it impairs a person in some way. There's a great difference between expressly viewing people with such impairments negatively, and saying something IS an impairment.

I would like to think Mr Todd was being flippant.
Unless we are talking about the semantics of the word bad

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:19 am I would like to think Mr Todd was being flippant.

Somewhat

I thought it was as likely (i.e. not very) that Ell was implying disability is bad as it was that Ian was implying being trans was a disability. Hence the blatant parody.

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:31 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:19 am I would like to think Mr Todd was being flippant.

Somewhat

I thought it was as likely (i.e. not very) that Ell was implying disability is bad as it was that Ian was implying being trans was a disability. Hence the blatant parody.

I was going to err on the side of charitability here, but in the interests of ensuring that nobody misinterpreted, I decided to be abundantly clear. Possibly was a bit unfair of me to frame it as though you was being serious, for which I apologise.

Satire is dead

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:43 am

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:31 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:19 am I would like to think Mr Todd was being flippant.

Somewhat

I thought it was as likely (i.e. not very) that Ell was implying disability is bad as it was that Ian was implying being trans was a disability. Hence the blatant parody.

I was going to err on the side of charitability here, but in the interests of ensuring that nobody misinterpreted, I decided to be abundantly clear. Possibly was a bit unfair of me to frame it as though you was being serious, for which I apologise.

No need to apologise mate, all good

On Ian's point I think there is a genuine case for a Paralympics or Paralympics-style category to be introduced for athletes whose testosterone levels fall outside of the usual range for their gender. Given this appears to be such an inflammatory topic though I don't feel knowledgable enough on the topic to weigh in while being sufficiently sensitive. But I do think that it's a very sensible option to at least consider in the name of inclusivity for all would-be athletes.

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:33 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:43 am

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:31 am

Somewhat

I thought it was as likely (i.e. not very) that Ell was implying disability is bad as it was that Ian was implying being trans was a disability. Hence the blatant parody.

I was going to err on the side of charitability here, but in the interests of ensuring that nobody misinterpreted, I decided to be abundantly clear. Possibly was a bit unfair of me to frame it as though you was being serious, for which I apologise.

On Ian's point I think there is a genuine case for a Paralympics or Paralympics-style category to be introduced for athletes whose testosterone levels fall outside of the usual range for their gender.

Why not push it to any physical or genetic attributes that give significant advantages? A separate category for athletes like Michael Phelps who produce much less lactic acid than the average etc.

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:33 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:43 am

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:31 am

Somewhat

I thought it was as likely (i.e. not very) that Ell was implying disability is bad as it was that Ian was implying being trans was a disability. Hence the blatant parody.

I was going to err on the side of charitability here, but in the interests of ensuring that nobody misinterpreted, I decided to be abundantly clear. Possibly was a bit unfair of me to frame it as though you was being serious, for which I apologise.

No need to apologise mate, all good

On Ian's point I think there is a genuine case for a Paralympics or Paralympics-style category to be introduced for athletes whose testosterone levels fall outside of the usual range for their gender. Given this appears to be such an inflammatory topic though I don't feel knowledgable enough on the topic to weigh in while being sufficiently sensitive. But I do think that it's a very sensible option to at least consider in the name of inclusivity for all would-be athletes.

Ironically it's boxing and other combat sports that have weight categories to make things fair but maybe a rebranding of the paralympics, maybe calling it the inclusive olympics will cater for those with raised testosterone.
I mean someone with PCOS have raised testosterone and it's not a birth (dare I say ) defect

Djokovic v Alcaraz in the men's tennis final, and no sign of it on the BBC, instead showing random stuff people only watch when it's the Olympics.

I think Eurosport had it

100 metres final , best sprint race ever 12 hudreths between first and last .
All athletes under 10 seconds

It was a very good race but I was hoping for more of a step up with the winning time. I thought Kishane Thompson had a 9.70, perhaps under, in him but it didn't come out on the night.

I'm not convinced it's a "fast track "

Given that the coach for the US Ladies Soccer team is British.
Will she win a medal as they are in the final ?

If so , can someone tell me how many British average won Olympic Medals for other countries .

Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone needs to just do the 400m. The event has much more credibility. Femke Bol too.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:12 pm Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone needs to just do the 400m. The event has much more credibility. Femke Bol too.

I'm sure you will see both at the relays .

Sydney winning time at the 400hurdles wasprobably good enough for the 400 flat semis at least

65 medals , I would say that was around par although we missed at least 2 golds in the athletics though KJT didn't lose gold imho but Kerr and , Hudson-Smith could have won gold if things had gone better.
Another few golds were lost in Rowing and Tae -Kwon -Do and Peaty was unlucky in the pool.
Also the Bmx racing was a medal lost (possibly gold)

WTF was going on with that Ethiopian team in the men's 5000m? They ditched Yomif Kejelecha from the team, which seemed on the face of it to be a bizarre choice, but some people thought it was to put everything behind Hagos Gebrhiwet (who set the second fastest time ever earlier this year), and use the other two as pacers essentially. A sub 12:40 race and Ingebrigtsen could be put under a lot of pressure. So what happens? They jog it out and hand him the gold on a platter. What a bunch of idiots.

Anyone remember Agnes Ngetich and Emmaculate Anyango? 10km times faster than the 10,000 world record earlier this year. I don't think they were even at the Olympics.

I've been informed that Agnes Ngetich DNSed at the Olympic trials and Emmaculate Anyango came about 5th.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:15 pm I've noticed in recent years there is more emphasis on an elite standard rather than competing for your country.
So no more Eric the Eeel and no Brithish representatives in the athletics throwing events.

Also mixed events , a good thing
Reperchage not sure it's good thing

Maybe they weren't as visible as Eric the Eel but there's still plenty of geographically diverse inclusivity. Just taking the most high profile event of all, the men 100m, there were about 60 (SIXTY!) qualifiers via "Universality places" to ensure every country gets at least a couple of qualifiers in. In the early rounds numerous athletes completed the 100m in well over 11 seconds. At least in the athletics the top 50 or so in the world will qualify on merit, its more pronounced in other sports, where very limited places are allocated based on geography/universality rather than ability. I noticed one rowing event with an Egyptian boat that was over 500m behind the winning Irish crew in the early qualifiers- that's 500m in a 2km race

Actually, via Wikipedia here's the reason why so many low ranked athletes were in the 100m

Under the Universality rule, any NOC without a qualified athlete or relay team will be permitted to send the highest-ranked male or highest-ranked female athlete to either of the following individual events, namely the 100 m, 800 m, or the marathon.[2]

I wasn't sure of the best thread for this, but I find it hilarious that Raygun is the number one ranked breakdancer in the world. Hilarious in a good way of course. Eddie the Eagle Edwards is generally viewed in a positive light, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about really. Call me petty but I'm enjoying the feeling of annoyance that some people must have over this.