c4countdown

Susie Dent has been awarded an MBE for services to language and literature in the 2024 King’s Birthday Honours List.

Congratulations.

You beat me to it.
Thoroughly deserved

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:12 pm Thoroughly deserved

Couldn’t agree more.

Joins the establishment.

This is a completely pointless and arbitrary award by the way. And when you look at some of the other people that end up getting honours, the whole thing stinks of corruption. Having said that, most of the awards won by corruption are much higher than MBE, and it seems pretty arbitrary who gets an MBE, OBE or whatever even before we consider how corrupt the system is, so if you think Susie is worthy of an honour, then really an MBE is a complete piss-take. She should have rejected it.

I mean as an American I don't know what an MBE is meant to initially show/present

Andres Sanchez wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:13 pm I mean as an American I don't know what an MBE is meant to initially show/present

MBE is "Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire", and it's the bottom rung of the overall ladder behind OBE, CBE, Knight Commander / Dame Commander, and Knight Grand Cross / Dame Grand Cross. Normally these things seem to be awarded to celebrities, politicians or party donors, so the whole thing's a load of bollocks, although I think it's supposed to be something to do with making a contribution to society. And as said, it seems pretty arbitrary the level someone is awarded. Lewis Hamilton is a Knight (much higher than MBE) for driving quickly round a track. Though he is a Knight Bachelor which is a another separate thing from that list. It's all pretty insane.

It's worth listening to what Benjamin Zephaniah said on the subject.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:59 am It's worth listening to what Benjamin Zephaniah said on the subject.

What a guy Benjamin was. Thanks for sharing this Gev.

Not that I think anyone has done anything equivalent to this on here yet, but just to head it off I think it's worth saying that Susie shouldn't be criticised or judged too harshly for accepting the award. While Benjamin Zephaniah (and Yasmin Alibhai-Brown) showed some exemplary consideration of the matter in that video, they are outliers. Most people just haven't considered the problems behind the honours system that closely so it's not like by accepting the award they should be held fully accountable for it. I really respect and admire Susie and think it's possible she could even be persuaded much like Yasmin was in that clip.

It wasn't mentioned in the clip but I believe before it was filmed, Jon Snow had also declined an OBE.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:59 am Normally these things seem to be awarded to celebrities, politicians or party donors

Normally? There are many thousands of MBEs and BEMs out there. The British Empire thing is stupid, and the nomination and selection process may be too random, but who would oppose the notion of giving some recognition to ordinary people who make society a little better?

I bet Rachel will be jealous.
She should get an OBE for services to twitter.
Opinionated, Bigotry and Empowerment

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:59 am

Andres Sanchez wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:13 pm I mean as an American I don't know what an MBE is meant to initially show/present

MBE is "Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire", and it's the bottom rung of the overall ladder behind OBE, CBE, Knight Commander / Dame Commander, and Knight Grand Cross / Dame Grand Cross. Normally these things seem to be awarded to celebrities, politicians or party donors, so the whole thing's a load of bollocks, although I think it's supposed to be something to do with making a contribution to society. And as said, it seems pretty arbitrary the level someone is awarded. Lewis Hamilton is a Knight (much higher than MBE) for driving quickly round a track. Though he is a Knight Bachelor which is a another separate thing from that list. It's all pretty insane.

It's worth listening to what Benjamin Zephaniah said on the subject.

So let me get this straight , you have issues with gongs or the association with an outdated British Empire ?

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:05 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:59 am It's worth listening to what Benjamin Zephaniah said on the subject.

What a guy Benjamin was. Thanks for sharing this Gev.

Not that I think anyone has done anything equivalent to this on here yet, but just to head it off I think it's worth saying that Susie shouldn't be criticised or judged too harshly for accepting the award. While Benjamin Zephaniah (and Yasmin Alibhai-Brown) showed some exemplary consideration of the matter in that video, they are outliers. Most people just haven't considered the problems behind the honours system that closely so it's not like by accepting the award they should be held fully accountable for it. I really respect and admire Susie and think it's possible she could even be persuaded much like Yasmin was in that clip.

It wasn't mentioned in the clip but I believe before it was filmed, Jon Snow had also declined an OBE.

When I said Susie should have rejected it, I didn't mean to particularly criticise her for not doing so, but I would have praised her if she had rejected it! In the past, I have criticised Susie in DC, but I've mellowed towards her in recent years.

David Williams wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:43 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:59 am Normally these things seem to be awarded to celebrities, politicians or party donors

Normally? There are many thousands of MBEs and BEMs out there. The British Empire thing is stupid, and the nomination and selection process may be too random, but who would oppose the notion of giving some recognition to ordinary people who make society a little better?

Maybe not normally, though I imagine statistically it gets more so the higher up the pecking order you go (above MBE). I think recognition for things can be good but given that it's a system mixed in with all the party donors etc. it devalues the whole thing. I also tend to think things like this should be more decentralised. I don't think it needs to be "official". E.g. Nobel prizes aren't run by a country's government.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:10 am So let me get this straight , you have issues with gongs or the association with an outdated British Empire ?

Well, as above - it's devalued, and I'd prefer things like this to be decentralised. The British Empire thing is just the icing on the cake for me.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:08 am I bet Rachel will be jealous.
She should get an OBE for services to twitter.
Opinionated, Bigotry and Empowerment

Rachel Riley does have an MBE by the way - "for services to Holocaust education and antisemitism awareness" according to her Wikipedia article.

I forgot about RR getting an MBE.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:59 am MBE is "Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire", and it's the bottom rung of the overall ladder behind OBE, CBE, Knight Commander / Dame Commander, and Knight Grand Cross / Dame Grand Cross. Normally these things seem to be awarded to celebrities, politicians or party donors, so the whole thing's a load of bollocks, although I think it's supposed to be something to do with making a contribution to society. And as said, it seems pretty arbitrary the level someone is awarded. Lewis Hamilton is a Knight (much higher than MBE) for driving quickly round a track. Though he is a Knight Bachelor which is a another separate thing from that list. It's all pretty insane.

It's worth listening to what Benjamin Zephaniah said on the subject.

Benjamin is a wonderful guy, loved seeing him on QI talking about how important his culture and what he writes is so valuable to him.

I do see what you mean about the given award being unnecessary, but my only guess as to why they'd give one to her is also due to what she has put outside the COuntdown sphere, yet still producing lexical works. I feel bad though that these kinds of awards can discredit one's acts like Ben's. I do respect Susie for the work and effort she's put into the importance of words and their ever-changing ecosystem. I do think the only way I could hate these awards (or more specifically the act of giving one out like this) would probably be if Alex Horne had gotten one, which I think falls under the Hamilton example given. Also to go off of Callum, didn't know Jon Snow declined an OBE. I do understand his reasoning though and I see a bit of similarity between Jon and Ben's reasons; they both don't do their work for the country but more for the enjoyment of it I feel. Of course please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't know much but I can absolutely respect these individuals for their declinations.

All in all, I do appreciate the guidance, and I think I'd be alright (not fully but there's definite satisfaction) of her getting an MBE. Also I agree with Callum on saying:

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:05 am I really respect and admire Susie and think it's possible she could even be persuaded much like Yasmin was in that clip.

She definitely does her work for the sole love and dedication to it I feel.

Well deserved honour, Susie Dent is a truly amazing lady and very nice too, she is one of the best lexicographers on Countdown fair and viewer friendly.