CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Discussion and announcements relating to unofficial Countdown competitions, held online or in real life. Observation, discussion, reflection, and other stuff ending in -ion.
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darren godfrey
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CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

Getting in super early here, but I'm choosing to follow Fiona's shining example and looking to help folk secure slightly cheaper accommodation :D

June 2024 will see the city of dreaming spires welcome Countdown enthusiasts from far and wide, as part of a jam-packed FOCAL calendar. Join me, your friendly neighbourhood baldy, for some fun with letters, numbers and conundrums!

Date & Time

Saturday, June 15th, 2024

Doors open: 10:15am
First round draw: 10:50am
First round: 11am - 11:50am
Second round: 12pm - 12:50pm
Lunch and Kickabout: 1pm - 2:15pm
Third round: 2:20pm - 3:10pm
Cake break: 3:15pm - 3:30pm
Semi-final / Bonus 'Bristol-Style' game: 3:30pm - 4:15pm
Grand Final: 4:30pm - 5:15pm
Prizegiving: 5:15pm - 5:30pm

The Venue

St Clements Centre
Map

The venue is wheelchair accessible. There will be a small kitchen available for making beverages, filling water bottles and the like. We will have the main hall for the event, and while some of the other smaller rooms at the Centre may also be booked on the day, this should not interfere with our event.

Logistics

Located just outside of the city centre, the venue is a short bus ride away from Oxford rail station and Gloucester Green bus station. If you'd prefer to drive, there are a number of parking spaces available at the Centre. Or if you'd prefer, you can park at Redbridge Park and Ride, and take a bus from there.

Accommodation

There are numerous hotels within easy reach of the venue and city centre.

The Premier Inn Oxford Cowley Hotel is a short walk and bus ride from the venue, while the Ramada Oxford M40 and the Travelodges at Peartree, Wheatley and Abingdon Road are relatively close, decent and shouldn't break the bank.

Format

Rather than come up with a zany new Oxford format, we'll go with the classic Lincoln-style. 3 to a table, with a random draw for the first round of games. We'll have three rounds (one before lunch, two after), with the latter two rounds drawn based on the league table.

However, to put my own little spin on it, we will then have two 9-round Bristol-style semi-finals (1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd) played simultaneously to decide who will contest the 15-round final. At the same time, everyone else will get to play one last game, against the person next to them in the standings. So, 5th v 6th, and so on.

During the lunch break, there will be something quizzy going on for those interested! :geek:

Feeding & Watering

There are a number of shops and well-known fast food chains a 5-10 minute walk from the venue for folks to grab a bite at lunchtime. Snacks will also be provided during the day.

Evening food and entertainment are still TBD, but the area close to the venue has an abundance of restaurants and bars. I'm currently considering booking out some space at The Mad Hatter, as it does have a function room where we can karaoke the night away ;)

Alternatively, we can all head to one of the local pubs to watch football (Spain v Croatia kicks off at 5, and is followed by Italy v Albania).

Making a weekend of it

For those who are planning to travel in on the Friday, and would like to meet up, we can head here for a bite to eat and a few drinks. There is also the option to find a pub somewhere showing the footy - Euro 2024 kicks off that Friday evening, with Germany playing Scotland.

Depending on the weather, possible options for the Sunday are:

- Punting on the Thames
- A walk and possible kickabout in one of the University parks
- A trip to the Castle area (there's a prison, and a hill to climb - more interesting than I'm making it sound)
- Junkyard golf

There are also some cool museums and other things if we're forced indoors.

What's Next?

Sound like your cup of tea? Splendid. Fire over £12 via one of the links below (or if you need an alternative way to pay, drop me a message) and I'll add you to the list.

Paypal
Monzo

One last thing...

June 15th, 2024 will be my 43rd birthday. :!:

The person who finishes 43rd will have their entry fee refunded. There will also be cake.

I look forward to welcoming you to CO:OX in the new year!


***ENTRIES***

Confirmed

1. MSR (paid)
2. James Robinson (paid)
3. Fiona T (paid)
4. Mike Lee (paid)
5. Adam Dexter (paid)
6. Richard Priest (paid)
7. Phil Stanton (paid)
8. Mark Murray (paid)
9. David Hilton (paid)
10. Bradley Horrocks (paid)
11. Ben Leyburn (paid)
12. Harry Savage (paid)
13. Adam Beach (paid)
14. Ian Wray (paid)
15. Adam Latchford (paid)
16. Coral Heath (paid)
17. TCap (paid)
18. Graeme Cole (paid)
19. Stewart Gordon (paid)
20. Sandie Simonis (paid)
21. Joseph Bartram (paid)
22. Junaid Mubeen (paid)
23. Mike Springett (paid)
24. Eddie Byrne (paid)
25. Jessica Pratesi (paid)
26. Mauro Pratesi (paid)
27. Paul Mcgivern (paid)
28. Paul Talmey (paid)
29. Matthew Brockwell (paid)
30. ToMaus Carey (paid)
31. Last Ashwin Hero (paid)
32. Tim Down (paid)
33. Eeshan Malhotra (paid)
34. Steve Hyde (paid)
35. Jack Hurst (paid)
36. Rob Foster (paid)
37. Tom Stevenson (paid)
38. Jonathan De Souza (paid)
39. Jonathan Wynn (paid)
40. Tim Hebbes (paid)
41. Ann Dibben (paid)
42. Dan Byrom (paid)
43. George Armstrong (paid)
44. Michael Armstrong (paid)
45. Andy Evans (paid)
46. Brendan Whitehurst (paid)
47. Zohaib Rehan (paid)
48. Steven Turnbull (paid)
49. Toby Byfield (paid)
50. Dylan Taylor (paid)
51. Ronan Higginson (paid)
52. Dave Robjohns (paid)

NOTE: All event organisers and attendees are bound by the FOCAL Code of Conduct
Last edited by darren godfrey on Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:02 pm, edited 39 times in total.
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Graeme Cole
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Graeme Cole »

darren godfrey wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:15 pm However, to put my own little spin on it, we will then have two 9-round Bristol-style semi-finals (1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd) played simultaneously to decide who will contest the 15-round final.
How is 3rd/4th place decided? Do the losing semi-finalists play along with the final as a 3rd/4th place playoff?
darren godfrey wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:15 pm At the same time, everyone else will get to play one last game, against the person next to them in the standings. So, 5th v 6th, and so on.
If there's an odd number of players, who has to sit out? The obvious answer is the person in last place, but then that person not only comes last with no hope of moving up a place, but also has to sit there doing nothing while everyone else in the room gets to play a final game. Perhaps it should be the person in 5th, who would naturally be more agreeable to sitting out the final round?
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

I like your idea for the 3rd / 4th place playoff playalong. Let's go with that.

As for if we have an odd number, the person in last place can choose between playing against 'Prune', or the lovely Rachael Montgomery. Or, they can have the honour of being in charge of the selections. As long as they still have fun, I don't mind what they choose.
JackHurst
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by JackHurst »

darren godfrey wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:15 pm However, to put my own little spin on it, we will then have two 9-round Bristol-style semi-finals (1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd) played simultaneously to decide who will contest the 15-round final. At the same time, everyone else will get to play one last game, against the person next to them in the standings. So, 5th v 6th, and so on.
Cool idea! Did you think about just making this 7th game of the day like any other heat game? I.e. everybody plays 6 Colin Style games + 1 Bristol style game. All games drawn from atropine and count towards final rankings in the same way.

It actually ends up being very similar to what you describe, however has 2 big advantages:
- No rematches possible except for Grand final
- Everybody has more to play for their in the final game than a single placing up or down.
- A final chance for players to rebalance some "tough draw" bad luck.
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Graeme Cole
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Graeme Cole »

JackHurst wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:03 am
darren godfrey wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:15 pm However, to put my own little spin on it, we will then have two 9-round Bristol-style semi-finals (1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd) played simultaneously to decide who will contest the 15-round final. At the same time, everyone else will get to play one last game, against the person next to them in the standings. So, 5th v 6th, and so on.
Cool idea! Did you think about just making this 7th game of the day like any other heat game? I.e. everybody plays 6 Colin Style games + 1 Bristol style game. All games drawn from atropine and count towards final rankings in the same way.

It actually ends up being very similar to what you describe, however has 2 big advantages:
- No rematches possible except for Grand final
- Everybody has more to play for their in the final game than a single placing up or down.
- A final chance for players to rebalance some "tough draw" bad luck.
Come to think of it, Darren never actually said each pair would only be playing for a single placing up or down. Maybe we both just assumed that because some other event has done that in the past. It could be that the seventh game counts towards the standings like everything else.
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

A few updates:

1) Format (thank you Jack and Graeme for the input!) - once all 6 Lincoln-style games have taken place, the 7th game will be Bristol-style (big screen) using Fiona's RoboR***y software with the top 4 contesting the semis. Everyone else will play along at the same time, with this 7th game (drawn by Atropine) counting towards final standings. The final will then take place, with the 3rd / 4th place game happening just behind using the same selections.

2) For the evening meal, I will try to book a table here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/J1LWSPBNSNhBr2A47

Please let me know here or on the corresponding Facebook post if you'd like to come along.

3) Parkrunners - there are several options within a few miles of the venue, however the closest is the Oxford University Parks one: https://www.parkrun.org.uk/universityparks/

4) Oxford's South Park is very close to the venue. If the weather is nice, and given the amount of footy love we saw at Reading, a group of us *could* head over and play a little game (in place of a lunchtime quiz). Just something to keep in mind if you want to bring items to 'freshen up' before the afternoon games start!

If the quiz ends up being a more inclusive option for everyone than footy, I'll run that and others can have a kickabout without me...*sad face*

5) Sadly, the Mad Hatter only does karaoke on Thursdays, so for those hanging around after the meal we'll just head to a pub nearby to watch the footy. Cape of Good Hope probably. After that there are a couple of cocktail bars nearby 🥴
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Fiona T »

darren godfrey wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:15 pm
Format

However, to put my own little spin on it, we will then have two 9-round Bristol-style semi-finals (1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd) played simultaneously to decide who will contest the 15-round final. At the same time, everyone else will get to play one last game, against the person next to them in the standings. So, 5th v 6th, and so on.
I guess this will potentially mean rematches?
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

I'll change this and do a draw for the Bristol-style round accompanying the semi-finals, to try and avoid rematches wherever possible.
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Fiona T »

I guess one potential rematch isn't a big deal! But always nicer to play different people :)
JackHurst
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by JackHurst »

I must admit, I was initially a bit skeptical about this format, but then I challenged myself to look at some data to see if it backed my skepticism.

... and the data changed my skepticism. If you look at all of the most recent Colin style events, take the standings after 6 games, then however you decide to draw an additional 7th game, its pretty much always the case that the only remaining players with a realistic chance of making the final are already among the top 4, so bracketing them off for the semi finals like Darren is doing feels ok to me :)

In some events, you've had a an unlucky high scoring player on 4/6 who'd have a pretty good chance of sneaking into 3rd with a 7th game and no bracketing. However, that user would still be able to get themself into 5th in this system. That's the biggest drawback I can see, and it's pretty minor tbh.


Maybe the one thing I would question is the value of having a 3rd/4th place play off going on at the same time as the final. I've seen it done before at CoMso, and I'd have to admit I really didn't like it. Trying to play 2 games simultaneously from the same selections with an audience is just really awkward. It just messes up the Rhythm an gameplay quite a bit and takes away from the final imo.

I can see an argument that having a 3rd and 4th place play if a nice way to give more people the chance to be on the big stage in front of an audience. However, players typically placing 3rd and 4th at events have already participated in many finals anyway, so it will just be the same old faces!
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Adam Dexter
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Adam Dexter »

As someone who went from 3rd in the penultimate game to 8th and prizeless at Reading I heartily endorse the 3/4 playoff :)
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Graeme Cole
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Graeme Cole »

JackHurst wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 11:35 am Maybe the one thing I would question is the value of having a 3rd/4th place play off going on at the same time as the final. I've seen it done before at CoMso, and I'd have to admit I really didn't like it. Trying to play 2 games simultaneously from the same selections with an audience is just really awkward. It just messes up the Rhythm an gameplay quite a bit and takes away from the final imo.

I can see an argument that having a 3rd and 4th place play if a nice way to give more people the chance to be on the big stage in front of an audience. However, players typically placing 3rd and 4th at events have already participated in many finals anyway, so it will just be the same old faces!
If you have semi-finals, then how would you decide who finishes 3rd and 4th if not by a play-off between the losing semi-finalists? Just go by whoever was higher in the standings before the semi-finals?
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

If there's time, we'll have a separate 3rd / 4th game. If not, it'll be the whoever had most wins and points before the semis thing.
JackHurst
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Graeme Cole wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 10:27 am
JackHurst wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 11:35 am Maybe the one thing I would question is the value of having a 3rd/4th place play off going on at the same time as the final. I've seen it done before at CoMso, and I'd have to admit I really didn't like it. Trying to play 2 games simultaneously from the same selections with an audience is just really awkward. It just messes up the Rhythm an gameplay quite a bit and takes away from the final imo.

I can see an argument that having a 3rd and 4th place play if a nice way to give more people the chance to be on the big stage in front of an audience. However, players typically placing 3rd and 4th at events have already participated in many finals anyway, so it will just be the same old faces!
If you have semi-finals, then how would you decide who finishes 3rd and 4th if not by a play-off between the losing semi-finalists? Just go by whoever was higher in the standings before the semi-finals?
Good question. Rank them relative to each other by wins/points. I'm not going to try and argue that removing a 3rd/4th place play off is better from the perspective of completeness and fairness. It's not, it's a little bit worse in that respect, but it only affects 2 players and one placing.

But I would stand firm on the assertion that it spoils the finale of the day! This massively outweighs the unfairness/incompleteness of the 3rd/4th issue. Let me explain why I feel so strongly about this.

The lifecycle of your typical Former Contestant/Co-Event attendee:
- Go on the show and have (as many have said on here) the best few days of your life recording shows.
- If you get lucky you might get to go on lots of shows, and even return for a CoC
- Once that's over, you're never getting back on. You live the rest of your Countdown life playing online and going to events.
- The buzz of being able to relive that time in the studio is something a lot of people would dearly love to.

A co event final is the only time in your life that you will be able to repeat the experience of playing a proper in person game of Countdown with the undivided attention of an audience. It's such a privilege to get this chance, and if you do make it to a final, it's a well deserved privilege that you've earned through hard work practising, and playing well on the day.

What makes for a proper game of Countdown. I would say:
- Good selections: None of that shuffled deck of cards shite. Ideally something like Fiona's software with a good distribution and proper deduplication.
- Split picking: P1 picks half of rounds, P2 picks half of round
- Proper Declarations: The only declarations you can hear in the room are from P1 and P2 (this is an important tactical part of the game!)
- Viewers: A well behaved audience who are invested in the outcome, applying some pressure to the situation!

Colin style heat games:
❌ Good Selections
✅ Split picking
✅ Proper Declarations
❌ Viewers

Bristol style heat games:
✅ Good Selections
❌ Split picking
❌ Proper Declarations
❌ Viewers

Co-Event Grand Final with 3rd/4th place playoff played simultaneously:
✅ Good Selections
✅ /❌ Split picking*
❌ Proper Declarations
✅/❌ Viewers**

*There are 4 players picking rounds. You can either exclude 3rd and 4th to give the finalists the ✅ , or you can somehow divide the picking between the 4 and get the ❌
**You do have viewers, but not their undivided attention because there's two games going on!

Co-Event Standalone Grand Final:
✅ Good Selections
✅ Split picking
✅ Proper Declarations
✅ Viewers

TV Countdown:
✅ Good Selections
✅ Split picking
✅ Proper Declarations
✅ Viewers
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Adam S Latchford »

Someone's trying something new
If its shite don't try again
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

Absolutely appreciate the input here. The final will 100% be a standalone event, with a respectful, silent audience who will be threatened with a water spray if they make noise*. As I said before, if we have time we'll do the 3rd / 4th place game directly before the final but if not, it'll be decided on wins / points. I want everyone to have the best day possible without dragging anything out unnecessarily.

*this probably won't happen
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Looking forward to it - I'm sure it'll be a fun event :)
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Dan Byrom »

Do you know if there is a voi scooter park near the venue?
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

Dan Byrom wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 12:38 pm Do you know if there is a voi scooter park near the venue?
There are two quite close by. I'll FB message you a map - if anyone else needs this, drop me a message.
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

If anyone else wants to join the post-event meal, please let me know asap. We have a table booked here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/d9r5tkspNus7FJ9x9

There are two options - a set menu for £29.95 which includes a mix of poppadums, starters, mains and sides, or choosing to order your own thing. Let me know what you'd prefer.
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

Let's talk about Friday plans 🍻

Would anyone be up for a spot of Junkyard Golf? https://maps.app.goo.gl/cVsMtHruqArkfRWM9

If you fancy it, let me know by end of tomorrow (Monday night) and I'll get something booked.

Regardless of whether or not golf happens, if folk are around on Friday evening and would like to grab a drink, let's meet at the Slug and Lettuce (https://maps.app.goo.gl/LkPjHHXwkARdurNX6) at 6pm. There are plenty of places nearby if people want to grab a bite to eat as well.

Looking forward to seeing you all!
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Looks like this will be one of the most stacked events in Co event history!
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Jonathan Wynn »

JackHurst wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:24 pm Looks like this will be one of the most stacked events in Co event history!
Agreed. Imagine Ahmed, Jack W and Conor all sign up late too.All relatively active players so still possible....
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

Jonathan Wynn wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 10:44 am
JackHurst wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:24 pm Looks like this will be one of the most stacked events in Co event history!
Agreed. Imagine Ahmed, Jack W and Conor all sign up late too.All relatively active players so still possible....
We can dream...

Anyway, for those in and around Oxford tonight, golf isn't happening so we'll be in the Slug and Lettuce watching football (providing they are showing it). Any issues or changes of plan, I'll post on here and Facebook.
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

For those popping out to meet us in Oxford this evening, the Slug & Lettuce isn't showing the footy so we'll be heading to this pub before kick-off: https://maps.app.goo.gl/47VESkMHLZJ5FKaK7
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Tom S »

Thanks Darren & co. for a great event yesterday, and belated HB!
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Excellent event - thanks Darren and friends!
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Thanks Darren and Co for a fantastic day 🎉

Congrats to Rob on a fantastic win, and becoming the first and only person to beat Zohaib in a co event!

Best bit of the day for me was getting to meet Junaid. He's one of the old skool players I'd never had the chance to meet in person. Just got Jeffrey Hanford to go now!
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Yeah I played Junaid in the last game - close game till he 6s'ed me on the last numbers :D Lovely guy - hope he comes to some more!
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Are the results for this event available anywhere to look at?
darren godfrey
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by darren godfrey »

There are indeed, good sir: https://wiki.apterous.org/Co:Oxford_2024
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Re: CO:OX - 15th June 2024

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw »

darren godfrey wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:04 am using Fiona's RoboR***y software
I have to assume you to be a man of integrity, and given that, this must have been asterisked for a very good reason...
...Rachel was terribly rude to you when you met in studio, perhaps?
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: S:778-ochamp
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