c4countdown

A lot of religious people in this country are staunch monarchist.
Most atheists I know also think the monarchy is outdated and we should be a Republic.
I myself am an atheist with a small a and a royalist but the royal family needs reforming and slimming down
Do you agree that Atheists and non royalists go hand in hand?

There are similarities. E.g. conformity and an unquestioning devotion to an authority figure. God has the separate question of existence of course, but the similarities remain.

More generally, there are lots of seemingly unconnected things that have a "left" and a "right" position - high/low taxes, nationalisation/privatisation, abortion, capital punishment, social justice things etc. Atheism and republicanism would both be "left" broadly speaking.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:32 pm More generally, there are lots of seemingly unconnected things that have a "left" and a "right" position - high/low taxes, nationalisation/privatisation, abortion, capital punishment, social justice things etc. Atheism and republicanism would both be "left" broadly speaking.

I seem to fall between 2 stalls on some of them
Now don't start calling me a Lib Dem .
Since turncoat Clegg that ship has long since sailed.
I noticed you didn't include Brexiters and remainers.
Slightly more complex that one.
As Stewart Lee once said its not just racists who voted for Brexit, cunts did too

Monarch and God are concepts that fulfil very similar sociological roles, or even the same role. The focus on monarchy over the past few days, combined with a book I've been reading recently, has got me thinking a bit about the role of religion in our evolution, as we discussed a year or two ago on another thread on this forum. I might revisit that at some point soon if I can organise my thoughts on the matter a bit.

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:33 pm Monarch and God are concepts that fulfil very similar sociological roles, or even the same role

Not many people organise their weekly social lives around the monarch though. Perhaps what you're saying applies more to those who "believe without belonging".

Not to the same extent, no, so perhaps there is something extra to the god-loving compared to the monarch-loving. I think for a lot of people the monarch is at least symbolically part of their day-to-day experience though. Just as they might consider religion (figureheaded by a god) as a major part of their personal identity, they might also consider their nationality (figureheaded by a monarch) as a major part of their personal identity. Imagine someone who, asked to define their identity, would say that foremost they are British and Christian. I think for many such people the monarch plays as much a part in the 'British' side of that equation as God plays in the 'Christian' side.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:32 pm More generally, there are lots of seemingly unconnected things that have a "left" and a "right" position - high/low taxes, nationalisation/privatisation, abortion, capital punishment, social justice things etc. Atheism and republicanism would both be "left" broadly speaking.

Not all religious people are staunch monarchists. Christian here-attend church each week, read Bible devotionals each day, etc. Am also a staunch republican. Church I go to is CofE but I don't feel any attachment to the particular kind of Christianity. The main focus in my own beliefs is Jesus.

With regards to the monarchy, they have definitely run their course, and the sooner they are replaced the better-the way in which they have treated certain people who do not bend to their whims has not been good. On the note of 'left/right' positions, this is generally the case, however, there has been a lot of divergences.

The 2019 General Election went to the Conservatives due to a lot of people with 'left' (ish) economic values voting mostly for 'right' social values. There does exist a strong band of Christians out there who would want say nationalization and higher taxes for the rich whilst also backing socially conservative views on abortion and gay marriage for example. In France, the 'far-right' Marine Le Pen had economic policies, in many instances, that we way further to the left than those of Emmanuel Macron.

If you've never seen it before (https://www.politicalcompass.org/) makes for a good perusal on the interplay between economic and social values

Definitely. The "left"/"right" thing is very vague and doesn't describe most people's views very well, but it does seem that these very differing topics each have a position that gets classified as left and right. I imagine a 2D model is better, but maybe a few more dimensions would help as well! I've done the political compass thing before and it was actually discussed near the beginning of the politics thread and I've always come up as economically left and socially liberal.

Even though it's mostly horseshit, if you aren't ending up in the bottom left quadrant of the political compass then there's something wrong with you.

Mark James wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:31 pm Even though it's mostly horseshit, if you aren't ending up in the bottom left quadrant of the political compass then there's something wrong with you.

I can think of a few and yes there is something wrong with them or a heart of stone or both.