Soft penalty, but clearly not a "blatent dive" as it was VAR reviewed.
The C4C Football Thread
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Re: The C4C Football Thread
Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:19 amI think the ref was addressing the stonewall penalty earlier on Harry Kane.that he didnt even check.Noel Mc wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:54 pmand two balls on the pitch literally a foot apart at one point.Mark James wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:49 pm Shocking decision. Two balls on the pitch and a blatant dive.
I must have missed the 2 balls incident
The ref was crap the free kicks that lead to the superb goal by Denmark were equally dodgy
Do you genuinely believe that:
a. Kane should have got a penalty?
b. Sterling should have got a penalty?
I agree with the general analysis that "on the balance of play", England were the better team. Knockout football isn't necessarily about the balance of play though
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Yeah, shame for the Danes to go out like that. Typical Sterling dive, 2 balls on the pitch and a laser pointer in Kasper's eyes. England on points, but you have to acknowledge that luck seems to be on your side. Can't wait for the Dark Arts Final tho
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I dont think Sterling deserved his penalty there was little contact but if you look at the Premier league then themat penalty comes under the' Ive seen then given ' category.
Butlime I said earlier Denmark got two lucky free kicks in succession.
Christianson knew what he was doing and the referee fell for it.
Butlime I said earlier Denmark got two lucky free kicks in succession.
Christianson knew what he was doing and the referee fell for it.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I don't think it was a penalty. England would have had a strong chance of winning it in ET any way. When Italy won the World Cup in 2006, they beat Australia due to a last minute dive for a penalty (they would have had to play extra time with 10 men).
Also, the Copa America has a very silly format this year: two groups of 5 playing a round robin but then still just quarter finals.
Also, the Copa America has a very silly format this year: two groups of 5 playing a round robin but then still just quarter finals.
Re: The C4C Football Thread
To be honest, I don't really begrudge the England team for the penalty, that's part of the game. I also agree with Conor, I think they'd have won in ET regardless. I suppose it should just put an end to the narrative that only foreigners dive.
As mentioned before, the current crop of England conflict me. They're almost all universally likeable, even Grealish is growing on me. I went in to last night's game with a thought that I wouldn't really mund if they won.
Having said that, when Denmark scored, I was giddy.
Agreed, the CA group stage was dumb. There were meant to be 6 teams in each group (I think Australia was one of the extra teams). The postponement by a year meant the two invited teams couldn't play as they had their own tournaments already scheduled for 2021. They seemingly just kept the format with a third game missing from each game day.
As mentioned before, the current crop of England conflict me. They're almost all universally likeable, even Grealish is growing on me. I went in to last night's game with a thought that I wouldn't really mund if they won.
Having said that, when Denmark scored, I was giddy.
Agreed, the CA group stage was dumb. There were meant to be 6 teams in each group (I think Australia was one of the extra teams). The postponement by a year meant the two invited teams couldn't play as they had their own tournaments already scheduled for 2021. They seemingly just kept the format with a third game missing from each game day.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
England definitely the better team on the night and deserved to go through. I'd be more upset at the ref not blowing up for the two balls on the pitch considering he did when it happened again later in the match. I thought the ref should have had a look himself at the screen before making the final decision though.
Only Kane penalty incident I can remember was checked by VAR and not given. I thought that was more of a stonewall but I believe it wasn't given because Kane fouled first in the build up.
Should be a great final. I wouldn't begrudge England winning it. As I said I like Southgate and the players, it's just the over the top media and that horrible element of fan that would put you off. (Was it just me or was the crowd booing the Danish national anthem?)
Only Kane penalty incident I can remember was checked by VAR and not given. I thought that was more of a stonewall but I believe it wasn't given because Kane fouled first in the build up.
Should be a great final. I wouldn't begrudge England winning it. As I said I like Southgate and the players, it's just the over the top media and that horrible element of fan that would put you off. (Was it just me or was the crowd booing the Danish national anthem?)
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I enjoyed the first half, was scrappy as hell afterwards, not a great watch.
Would be nice if the final was more open, but I doubt it will be.
Would be nice if the final was more open, but I doubt it will be.
meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I watched this round a friend's last night and neither of us are the most fervent England fans, and we did think that the win was tainted by the non-penalty.
But the reality is that football, knockout football at least, is more of a show than a proper sport. In most sports, if a player/team is a reasonable amount better than the opposition, they are almost certainly going to win. But because of the low scoring in football, it doesn't have the "resolution" to reliably determine the better team. Obviously this is partly what makes football popular - the excitement that a close game gives - but then that goes back to it being a show for people's entertainment.
It might be considered just about acceptable that a sport determines winners in this way, except that the nature of football also means that, more than most other sports, the accuracy of refereeing is not high enough to support a sport that routinely has such small differences in score. Games can easily swing on the referees' decisions.
So it's a double whammy. Low scoring games mean the better team can easily lose, and refereeing inaccuracies can mean the "wrong" team can win regardless of the chance nature of the low scoring game.
People tell me F1 isn't a proper sport. Sure, but you need to look closer to home as well.
But the reality is that football, knockout football at least, is more of a show than a proper sport. In most sports, if a player/team is a reasonable amount better than the opposition, they are almost certainly going to win. But because of the low scoring in football, it doesn't have the "resolution" to reliably determine the better team. Obviously this is partly what makes football popular - the excitement that a close game gives - but then that goes back to it being a show for people's entertainment.
It might be considered just about acceptable that a sport determines winners in this way, except that the nature of football also means that, more than most other sports, the accuracy of refereeing is not high enough to support a sport that routinely has such small differences in score. Games can easily swing on the referees' decisions.
So it's a double whammy. Low scoring games mean the better team can easily lose, and refereeing inaccuracies can mean the "wrong" team can win regardless of the chance nature of the low scoring game.
People tell me F1 isn't a proper sport. Sure, but you need to look closer to home as well.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Am I the only person in the country able to actually remember the 1966 World Cup? So far, from an England perspective, 2021 is so much better.
A bit like this time, England were pretty pedestrian in the qualifying group. They played with a winger, Ball and Peters alternated, Hurst was very much third choice behind Hunt and Greaves. Stiles, who really was evil even for those days, butchered opponents to the extent that the FA wanted Ramsey to leave him out. And elsewhere, particularly at Goodison Park, the football was wonderful. Hungary and Portugal were fantastic in beating Brazil, who had won the previous two World Cups (though kicking Pele hard and often did help). West Germany looked really good, and North Korea eliminated Italy.
Then Greaves got injured, Hurst came in, and the wingless wonders were born. This did not go down well at all. The quarter-final against Argentina was a terrible game. Argentina were a cynical team, to be sure, but in the days when a sending off was almost unheard of the German referee sent off Rattin, the Argentine captain, after about ten minutes, apparently for dissent. He refused to go and chaos reigned. England laboured against ten men without looking like scoring until Hurst eventually headed one in near the end. At the same time Eusebio scored four goals as Portugal came from 3-0 down to beat North Korea 5-3. And Ramsey told the press that Argentina were animals. Hard to imagine Southgate doing that.
And out of the blue England played really well to beat Portugal, and everything that happened before then was forgotten. Although there was a campaign by the media, which was much more London-centric in those days, that with Greaves fit again Hunt should be dropped for the final. This was never going to happen, because Ramsey much preferred Hunt to Greaves anyway, but my recollection (that could be wrong) was that Hunt was booed when the teams were announced before the game.
A bit like this time, England were pretty pedestrian in the qualifying group. They played with a winger, Ball and Peters alternated, Hurst was very much third choice behind Hunt and Greaves. Stiles, who really was evil even for those days, butchered opponents to the extent that the FA wanted Ramsey to leave him out. And elsewhere, particularly at Goodison Park, the football was wonderful. Hungary and Portugal were fantastic in beating Brazil, who had won the previous two World Cups (though kicking Pele hard and often did help). West Germany looked really good, and North Korea eliminated Italy.
Then Greaves got injured, Hurst came in, and the wingless wonders were born. This did not go down well at all. The quarter-final against Argentina was a terrible game. Argentina were a cynical team, to be sure, but in the days when a sending off was almost unheard of the German referee sent off Rattin, the Argentine captain, after about ten minutes, apparently for dissent. He refused to go and chaos reigned. England laboured against ten men without looking like scoring until Hurst eventually headed one in near the end. At the same time Eusebio scored four goals as Portugal came from 3-0 down to beat North Korea 5-3. And Ramsey told the press that Argentina were animals. Hard to imagine Southgate doing that.
And out of the blue England played really well to beat Portugal, and everything that happened before then was forgotten. Although there was a campaign by the media, which was much more London-centric in those days, that with Greaves fit again Hunt should be dropped for the final. This was never going to happen, because Ramsey much preferred Hunt to Greaves anyway, but my recollection (that could be wrong) was that Hunt was booed when the teams were announced before the game.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I was three in 66 so only a vague recollection.
I remember 1970 in Mexico though.
We were a better team than the 66 version and were one of tge favourites the quarter final against West Germany was the stuff of nightmares in the end and has taken 50 years to get over it
2-0 up with 20 minutes left Ramsay decides to bring off Charlton and Hurst? to rest them for the semi final and then Gerd Muller worked his magic and we ended uplosing 3-2 in extra time
Peter Bonetti was blamed as he took over from the ill Gordon Banks but Istill blamed Ramsay.
Even when we went2 nil up in the round of 16 this year I thought they were gonna do it again
I remember 1970 in Mexico though.
We were a better team than the 66 version and were one of tge favourites the quarter final against West Germany was the stuff of nightmares in the end and has taken 50 years to get over it
2-0 up with 20 minutes left Ramsay decides to bring off Charlton and Hurst? to rest them for the semi final and then Gerd Muller worked his magic and we ended uplosing 3-2 in extra time
Peter Bonetti was blamed as he took over from the ill Gordon Banks but Istill blamed Ramsay.
Even when we went2 nil up in the round of 16 this year I thought they were gonna do it again
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Didnt know about this
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... n=sharebar
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... n=sharebar
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Hope this trend continues......
France lose to Switzerland on penalies, who then lose to Spain on penalties, who then lose to Italy on penalties.........
Clutchingatstraws#
France lose to Switzerland on penalies, who then lose to Spain on penalties, who then lose to Italy on penalties.........
Clutchingatstraws#
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Did anyone watch The Last Tommy? There'll be a thing like that soon for people who remember the 1966 World Cup.David Williams wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:01 pm Am I the only person in the country able to actually remember the 1966 World Cup?
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I did sort of mean remember what it was really like. Until the semi-final England were dire, and the general feeling was that they would be hammered by Portugal. Ramsey was about as popular as, say, Sven, and ridiculed for his elocution lessons. And for those whose only image of Stiles is Nobby dancing, that was a thing just because it was so incongruous. Mind you, he was absolutely brilliant in that semi-final.Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:11 pmDid anyone watch The Last Tommy? There'll be a thing like that soon for people who remember the 1966 World Cup.David Williams wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:01 pm Am I the only person in the country able to actually remember the 1966 World Cup?
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Was in Tesco today and every other song they were interjecting some awful England football songs in between the usual radio-friendly drivel. This was one of them - apparently older than I thought, I'd had the pleasure of not hearing it before. It was all pretty cringeworthy and embarrassing, the audio equivalent of all your St George's Cross flags. Anyway the point I'm getting to is that one of the staff members said kind of loosely to both me as I was passing and one of his colleagues, "Oh I didn't realise it was the World Cup, it must be the way they are going on about it!" and I thought of you Gevin as that is your thing as well. The colleague didn't get what he was insinuating at all, but of course I recognised it from C4C.Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:19 pmall the hard work to win but without the World Cup at the end of it. Just some regional championship.
This experience also reminded me how annoying face masks are when it comes to jokes. I smiled out of courtesy, which felt an appropriate response; it wasn't funny enough to deserve anything audible. Then when I walked off I remembered how hard it is to tell what people's faces are doing with a mask on. Don't people say that you can tell really easily whether people are smiling from just their eyes? I'm not sure, I think it's much easier to tell when you can see their mouth.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
If it's any consolation the unofficial world championship is also at stake, with Italy being the current holders.Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:19 pmall the hard work to win but without the World Cup at the end of it. Just some regional championship.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Ok prediction for tomorrow.
Italy 2 England 3
Italy 2 England 3
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
https://www.ufwc.co.uk/Fred Mumford wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:21 pmIf it's any consolation the unofficial world championship is also at stake, with Italy being the current holders.Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:19 pmall the hard work to win but without the World Cup at the end of it. Just some regional championship.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Is there an unofficial European championship as well?
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Interesting story. I also don't recall hearing that football song before, but thanks to you, I now have.Matt Morrison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:41 pmWas in Tesco today and every other song they were interjecting some awful England football songs in between the usual radio-friendly drivel. This was one of them - apparently older than I thought, I'd had the pleasure of not hearing it before. It was all pretty cringeworthy and embarrassing, the audio equivalent of all your St George's Cross flags. Anyway the point I'm getting to is that one of the staff members said kind of loosely to both me as I was passing and one of his colleagues, "Oh I didn't realise it was the World Cup, it must be the way they are going on about it!" and I thought of you Gevin as that is your thing as well. The colleague didn't get what he was insinuating at all, but of course I recognised it from C4C.Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:19 pmall the hard work to win but without the World Cup at the end of it. Just some regional championship.
This experience also reminded me how annoying face masks are when it comes to jokes. I smiled out of courtesy, which felt an appropriate response; it wasn't funny enough to deserve anything audible. Then when I walked off I remembered how hard it is to tell what people's faces are doing with a mask on. Don't people say that you can tell really easily whether people are smiling from just their eyes? I'm not sure, I think it's much easier to tell when you can see their mouth.
But anyway the guy probably went away thinking his joke had fallen completely flat and/or that you and his colleague were both cunts. Or maybe he saw that beaming smile in your eyes.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Ok so... having called both finalists correctly, my prediction for the final is as such:
ITALY 2-1 ENGLAND
(with Rice to score the winning goal...)
ITALY 2-1 ENGLAND
(with Rice to score the winning goal...)
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
When did you call the finalists then seeing as we would have lost 3 penalty shoot outs according to previous predictoons.L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:04 pm Ok so... having called both finalists correctly, my prediction for the final is as such:
ITALY 2-1 ENGLAND
(with Rice to score the winning goal...)
Think I called England as finalists in January
I will be happy for Rice to score the winner (right end obviously)
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
At each stage I made predictions here.
I called 4/8 QFists, 3/4 SFists, then 2/2 finalists, and now 1/1 winner.
Pretty simple.
I called 4/8 QFists, 3/4 SFists, then 2/2 finalists, and now 1/1 winner.
Pretty simple.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
That's this one checked off the listMarc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:59 pm Messi wont go down as an all time great until he wins a Copa Anerica or World Cup.
Ronaldo has won a major international trophy.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Just the world cup next year to make him the undisputed GOAT.Noel Mc wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:56 amThat's this one checked off the listMarc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:59 pm Messi wont go down as an all time great until he wins a Copa Anerica or World Cup.
Ronaldo has won a major international trophy.
Well if you ignore Pele
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
It's a start but while I may mock the Euros for being some regional competition, the Copa America is far more so and can barely be called a major international tournament.Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:00 amJust the world cup next year to make him the undisputed GOAT.Noel Mc wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:56 amThat's this one checked off the listMarc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:59 pm Messi wont go down as an all time great until he wins a Copa Anerica or World Cup.
Ronaldo has won a major international trophy.
Well if you ignore Pele
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Argentina havent won it in well over 10 years
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
But they probably should have done since it's Brazil, Argentina and the rest.
Re: The C4C Football Thread
Is it though?Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:19 pm But they probably should have done since it's Brazil, Argentina and the rest.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Probably not. But the drop off as you work down the list is surely much steeper than in Europe.Noel Mc wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:26 pmIs it though?Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:19 pm But they probably should have done since it's Brazil, Argentina and the rest.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
He's won the champions league and club world cup with Barcelona anyway. He's won major tournaments. Arguably these are more impressive because you don't choose your country (which might be San Marino), but if the best club has you on their team it says something.
Edit - And while the World Cup might be the big deal, I don't think the Copa America trumps his other achievements.
Edit - And while the World Cup might be the big deal, I don't think the Copa America trumps his other achievements.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Do people do the "Roberto Mancini wears a mankini" joke? Is that a thing in football?
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
For as much as I've been praising Southgate he cost England tonight. Far too negative. One nil up and never went for that second goal. Even Chielini, a centre half, was on the overlap in the last few minutes of extra time trying to win the game for Italy. Grealish not coming on until as late he did was a disgrace.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Maybe, but there's bigger things to deal with first.Mark James wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:24 pm For as much as I've been praising Southgate he cost England tonight. Far too negative. One nil up and never went for that second goal. Even Chielini, a centre half, was on the overlap in the last few minutes of extra time trying to win the game for Italy. Grealish not coming on until as late he did was a disgrace.
The answer is "yes".Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:45 pm Do people do the "Roberto Mancini wears a mankini" joke? Is that a thing in football?
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
We finally got our "England out on penalties" moment!L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:09 pm It is a time-honoured tradition in the finals of international football tourneys. You have to have a massive favourite eliminated, there's gotta be a plucky underdog that gets to the semi-finals (and at the Euros - sometimes even goes on to win the whole thing!), and you have to have a much fancied England team go out, having played better in the 90 mins, on penalties (preferably to the Germans). These are the elements you need in place for a truly great tournament.
Better late than never, I suppose.
Delighted that Southgate got ye to ye're first ever final of the Euros. Great achievement. Those players should wear those silver medals with pride.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I wanted to come up with an elegant retort but i am unable to.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
You have to admire the sheer wit and hilarity though, and of course everyone cares about the FAI's take on it. How did their team do by the way?
Re: The C4C Football Thread
Im pretty sure that's just a picture some randomer madeFred Mumford wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:11 pm You have to admire the sheer wit and hilarity though, and of course everyone cares about the FAI's take on it. How did their team do by the way?
Re: The C4C Football Thread
I was gutted for Saka, Rashford and Sancho, penalties can be cruel.
I think England feel at the final hurdle for two reasons:
- Poor game management: there is so much attacking talent at their disposal and it wasn't really used properly.
- Italy were just better. Their quality came through in the end.
Overall, I would probably put England as the 3rd best team in the tournament (behind Italy and Spain). If Ansu Fati had been fit, I could have seen Spain winning the whole thing.
It bodes well though for England next year. Another year and a half will see the team mature a lot and they could do some serious damage.
I think England feel at the final hurdle for two reasons:
- Poor game management: there is so much attacking talent at their disposal and it wasn't really used properly.
- Italy were just better. Their quality came through in the end.
Overall, I would probably put England as the 3rd best team in the tournament (behind Italy and Spain). If Ansu Fati had been fit, I could have seen Spain winning the whole thing.
It bodes well though for England next year. Another year and a half will see the team mature a lot and they could do some serious damage.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Reasons England lost.Noel Mc wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:31 pm I was gutted for Saka, Rashford and Sancho, penalties can be cruel.
I think England feel at the final hurdle for two reasons:
- Poor game management: there is so much attacking talent at their disposal and it wasn't really used properly.
- Italy were just better. Their quality came through in the end.
Overall, I would probably put England as the 3rd best team in the tournament (behind Italy and Spain). If Ansu Fati had been fit, I could have seen Spain winning the whole thing.
It bodes well though for England next year. Another year and a half will see the team mature a lot and they could do some serious damage.
1) too pragmatic
2) The referee was shocking.
No red card for Jorjinho
Gave England 'advantage' at one point when the free kick would have been better as the advantage didnt lead to anything.
He seemed to want the game to flow and missed many clear fouls.
No VAR check on Italys goal as there wax a hand ball in the build up.
3) Donnamarra, best goalkeeper i have seen since Buffon in his heyday made two crucial penalty saves (although Pickfords were better)
4) Southgate didnt take off Sterling in extra time ( he clearly doesnt take penalties) Calvert Lewin would have made sense.
5) unlesd he was injured why take off Rice?
6,) dont bring subs on at 119 minuted and expect them to score their penalties
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I don't think Southgate really got much wrong in the final. The only thing that definitely seems to have gone wrong is Sancho and Rashford not getting a few extra minutes to warm into the game, but Southgate tried to bring them on a few minutes earlier but the officials kept restarting play without letting the substitution happen so that's not really his fault. We just lost to a slightly better team by a very small margin. No shame in that, no fault to be found, no blame to be dished out. Proud of the team and the manager, not just for the football but for the spirit of unity they've fostered. We go again at the next major international tournament in 2024.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Qatar next November actuallyCallum Todd wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:28 pm I don't think Southgate really got much wrong in the final. The only thing that definitely seems to have gone wrong is Sancho and Rashford not getting a few extra minutes to warm into the game, but Southgate tried to bring them on a few minutes earlier but the officials kept restarting play without letting the substitution happen so that's not really his fault. We just lost to a slightly better team by a very small margin. No shame in that, no fault to be found, no blame to be dished out. Proud of the team and the manager, not just for the football but for the spirit of unity they've fostered. We go again at the next major international tournament in 2024.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I see what you did thereCallum Todd wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:28 pm We go again at the next major international tournament in 2024.
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I like to think I'll be principled, but I think I'll probably watch it
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Southgate tried to shut up shop after being one nil up. Why bring Henderson on ahead of Grealish? They sat back too much and didn't go for it. If they go 2 up they win that match. I don't think you need to be harsh on Southgate, he did a great job and is the man to take them forward but you can still acknowledge mistakes that he made. I agree he tried to get the peno takers on earlier so couldn't be blamed for that but apparently he chose the order and there's no way I'd have the youngest player who's never taken a pressure penalty before to go fifth.
But already the hype machine is saying it puts them in a great place to win the World Cup. Calm down ffs. Italy actually won the thing and I bet they're not talking about winning the world Cup before the qualifiers are even over. It's no wonder the players feel the pressure.
But already the hype machine is saying it puts them in a great place to win the World Cup. Calm down ffs. Italy actually won the thing and I bet they're not talking about winning the world Cup before the qualifiers are even over. It's no wonder the players feel the pressure.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
This is the always accusation levelled against the England fans and press by the ABEs. I doubt you'll find a single England fan that thinks we're in "a great place to win the World Cup". I think we're in a position to do well, if we reach the semi-final, then we're in a great place to win it.Mark James wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:22 pm But already the hype machine is saying it puts them in a great place to win the World Cup.
Re: The C4C Football Thread
Ha, for real?Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:34 pm I doubt you'll find a single England fan that thinks we're in "a great place to win the World Cup".
I think one knows otherwise without needing any proof, but just to be sure, I went and whacked "win world cup" into a Twitter search, and it was as I expected.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
I usually avoid Twitter. Top search was Harry Kane saying they can regroup for the World Cup. Second result was a group of England fans with a 10 year plan to win the world cup. Having a plan isn't the same as being in a great place.Phil H wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:43 pmHa, for real?Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:34 pm I doubt you'll find a single England fan that thinks we're in "a great place to win the World Cup".
I think one knows otherwise without needing any proof, but just to be sure, I went and whacked "win world cup" into a Twitter search, and it was as I expected.
This idea that England fans are "entitled" is 50 years out of date.
Re: The C4C Football Thread
This is a bitter loss, and saying we're in a good position to win the World Cup is one way to optimistically sugarcoat it. Italy would have no reason to talk about winning the World Cup since they can enjoy their victory.Mark James wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:22 pm But already the hype machine is saying it puts them in a great place to win the World Cup. Calm down ffs. Italy actually won the thing and I bet they're not talking about winning the world Cup before the qualifiers are even over. It's no wonder the players feel the pressure.
Re: The C4C Football Thread
Up to you if you want to avoid it, but if you go "latest" instead of "top" (and read beyond the first two tweets) you'll find a fair number of people going "yay we're gonna win it". Some may be tongue in cheek, but many aren't.Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:09 pm
I usually avoid Twitter. Top search was Harry Kane saying they can regroup for the World Cup. Second result was a group of England fans with a 10 year plan to win the world cup. Having a plan isn't the same as being in a great place.
This idea that England fans are "entitled" is 50 years out of date.
Your last sentence sits rather incongruously with the news of the last couple of days...
Re: The C4C Football Thread
The whole match felt so similar to the World Cup semifinal loss to Croatia. A strong start and an early goal before a superior midfield started to control the game. It's just so difficult to keep attacking when your instinct is to defend. This is when you need leadership on the pitch, and ideally in midfield. Grealish would have offered them an outlet. And while the penalty takers were chosen on the basis of how they'd performed in training, it's a big leap to extrapolate that to taking a penalty in the final of a major international tournament.
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
Forget twitter, pundits were talking about winning the next World Cup on the BBC. Not saying how they have a great chance to go far, maybe reach the semis or the final again, but to actually win the thing. I don't think it's necessarily arrogance, I think it's magical thinking. I think they think they haven't won because they just didn't believe hard enough. They never see it as them putting so much pressure on. I said before I was cheering for England in 2018 because the media weren't being obnoxious and seemed to be enjoying it more, getting to the semi-final was like a bonus. They were excited to see how far the team could go.
Now this might be my own magical thinking but I'm convinced that afterwards certain elements of fans and pundits thought maybe the team would have gone further if they hadn't had such a relaxed attitude, in that kind of fail to prepare, prepare to fail kind of way. Like, if only we had had more confidence in the team they would have done it. We better keep talking about how great we think they are and how we can definitely do even better next time. This is what creates the pressure of expectations and what makes it funny for everyone outside England when they inevitably fail.
To be fair to the players I thought they did a decent job of not reacting to the media in both this and the last tournament. I do wonder if reports of the shenanigans outside (and subsequently inside) the stadium had reached the players though and if that could have had an effect. Did the moron pitch invader think that would help the team for instance?
Now this might be my own magical thinking but I'm convinced that afterwards certain elements of fans and pundits thought maybe the team would have gone further if they hadn't had such a relaxed attitude, in that kind of fail to prepare, prepare to fail kind of way. Like, if only we had had more confidence in the team they would have done it. We better keep talking about how great we think they are and how we can definitely do even better next time. This is what creates the pressure of expectations and what makes it funny for everyone outside England when they inevitably fail.
To be fair to the players I thought they did a decent job of not reacting to the media in both this and the last tournament. I do wonder if reports of the shenanigans outside (and subsequently inside) the stadium had reached the players though and if that could have had an effect. Did the moron pitch invader think that would help the team for instance?
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
by a country mile...
Anseo!
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The best thing about the loss, is not that England went out on penos again... it's not even the sweet irony of those last gasp substitution decisions... (though these all do add to the narrative wonderfully). No. The best thing -from my point of view- is that "Three Lions" is still valid, and can be used in 2022, and perhaps beyond. It would be a pity if an England win rendered it out of date. #toptune
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
After the Spain Italy match Rio Ferdinand said there was nothing about either team for England to worry about in the final. They hadn't beaten Denmark yet. In 2016 there was a "what to watch" segment in a newspaper which listed England vs France before yis lost to Iceland.Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:09 pm This idea that England fans are "entitled" is 50 years out of date.
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Im curious if this is just an England thing or are other countries the same.Mark James wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:15 amAfter the Spain Italy match Rio Ferdinand said there was nothing about either team for England to worry about in the final. They hadn't beaten Denmark yet. In 2016 there was a "what to watch" segment in a newspaper which listed England vs France before yis lost to Iceland.Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:09 pm This idea that England fans are "entitled" is 50 years out of date.
Fwiw i think the pressure of performing at home ultimately hampered them.
Their best performance was against Ukraine.
Next years tournament will start in November so all players should not be knackered.
Mind you that goes for all teams.
I still predict last 4 again minimum.
Hard to believe we are still top 4 in the FIFA rankings
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Im looking forward to seeing the Irish aat Qatar next year.L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:00 amby a country mile...
Anseo!![]()
The best thing about the loss, is not that England went out on penos again... it's not even the sweet irony of those last gasp substitution decisions... (though these all do add to the narrative wonderfully). No. The best thing -from my point of view- is that "Three Lions" is still valid, and can be used in 2022, and perhaps beyond. It would be a pity if an England win rendered it out of date. #toptune
Im sure Roy Keane and Andy Townsend will still be pundits
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Re: The C4C Football Thread
No country will ever top Scotland in 1978 for hilariously unjustified overconfidence and arrogance before a tournament, followed by a ritual humiliation at the hands of renowned footballing superpowers like Peru and Iran.Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:27 amIm curious if this is just an England thing or are other countries the same.