The C4C Football Thread

[JackHurst]

Best day of international football I've watched.

Tomorrow probably gonna be a bit duff in comparison.

Agreed.

[Marc Meakin]

Best day of international football I've watched.

Tomorrow probably gonna be a bit duff in comparison.

Agreed.

Just as tense without the quality.
Ukraine for another upset

[Marc Meakin]

Fuck your penalty shoot out
Its coming home.
Bring on Ukraine in Rome

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

Looks like the dream fixture may be closer than we think...
Are England set to go out to the Germans on penos as soon as the Round of 16?!
Wonderful!

Ah well.

Well played England. Ye deserved it (I suppose)

[Noel Mc]

Best day of international football I've watched.

Tomorrow probably gonna be a bit duff in comparison.

Agreed.

Just as tense without the quality.
Ukraine for another upset

The tension must come from having a vested interest (being English or German). From my perspective, the game was just incredibly boring. It didn't have a fraction of the excitement of yesterday.

Harry Maguire needs to start every game. Grealish also the changemaker. Still gutted for Sancho though, far too good to not have had any minutes.

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

GROUP OF DEATH?
Discuss...

[Gavin Chipper]

Yeah, they're all dead.

[Matt Morrison]

Yeah, they're all dead.

I do still read C4C you know.

[Dave Robjohns]

So all the third place teams have gone through to the last 8... except the reigning champs

[Conor]

The tension must come from having a vested interest (being English or German). From my perspective, the game was just incredibly boring. It didn't have a fraction of the excitement of yesterday.

I think this was just to be expected. It's probably not a coincidence that the two last-16 games with the best teams on paper (Bel - Por and Eng - Ger) were the least exciting games, the highest level of football just seems to be like that. And with their half of the draw opening up, today's game definitely felt like it took on a greater importance akin to a semi-final.

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

Having gotten just 50% on my Last 16 predictions (CZE/SPA/DEN/ITA correct), here are my predictions for the quarterfinals:-

SPAIN beats Switzerland (3-1)
ITALY beats Belgium (2-0)
DENMARK beats* Czechia (2-2)
UKRAINE beats* England (1-1)

*All tied results are the final scorelines of games that then go on the be settled in a penalty shootout.

[Marc Meakin]

Having gotten just 50% on my Last 16 predictions (CZE/SPA/DEN/ITA correct), here are my predictions for the quarterfinals:-

SPAIN beats Switzerland (3-1)
ITALY beats Belgium (2-0)
DENMARK beats* Czechia (2-2)
UKRAINE beats* England (1-1)

*All tied results are the final scorelines of games that then go on the be settled in a penalty shootout.

You really are desperate for England to go out on a penalty shootout
My Predictions
Spain 2-1 aet
Belgium 1-0
Denmark 2-1
England 3-0

[Marc Meakin]

Messj is a free agent.
Do you think he could handle the Premier League or do you think he will go to PSG to link up with Mbappe and maybe even Ronaldo?

[Gavin Chipper]

You really are desperate for England to go out on a penalty shootout

I was thinking the same.

[Rhys Benjamin]

Messj is a free agent.
Do you think he could handle the Premier League or do you think he will go to PSG to link up with Mbappe and maybe even Ronaldo?

He should sign for Fulham, he would have the opportunity to score 100 goals a season.

And a nice house in SW6 to boot.

[Marc Meakin]

Messj is a free agent.
Do you think he could handle the Premier League or do you think he will go to PSG to link up with Mbappe and maybe even Ronaldo?

He should sign for Fulham, he would have the opportunity to score 100 goals a season.

And a nice house in SW6 to boot.

I doubt if any world class footballers would want to end their careers at Fulham

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

You really are desperate for England to go out on a penalty shootout

Isn't everyone?!
It is a time-honoured tradition in the finals of international football tourneys. You have to have a massive favourite eliminated, there's gotta be a plucky underdog that gets to the semi-finals (and at the Euros - sometimes even goes on to win the whole thing!), and you have to have a much fancied England team go out, having played better in the 90 mins, on penalties (preferably to the Germans). These are the elements you need in place for a truly great tournament.

So far we have:-
1. Massive favourite out early = FRANCE
2. Plucky underdog overperforming = UKRAINE?
3. England out on penos = in the QF?!

And of course you have to speculate on who the new Pearce / Southgate / Batty / Vassel / Lampard / Cole will be...

[Rhys Benjamin]

Messj is a free agent.
Do you think he could handle the Premier League or do you think he will go to PSG to link up with Mbappe and maybe even Ronaldo?

He should sign for Fulham, he would have the opportunity to score 100 goals a season.

And a nice house in SW6 to boot.

I doubt if any world class footballers would want to end their careers at Fulham

Berbatov.

[Marc Meakin]

He should sign for Fulham, he would have the opportunity to score 100 goals a season.

And a nice house in SW6 to boot.

I doubt if any world class footballers would want to end their careers at Fulham

Berbatov.

I put the smiley face on because I am old enough to remember Bobby Moore and George Best playing at Fulham before playing in America

[Marc Meakin]

You really are desperate for England to go out on a penalty shootout

Isn't everyone?!
It is a time-honoured tradition in the finals of international football tourneys. You have to have a massive favourite eliminated, there's gotta be a plucky underdog that gets to the semi-finals (and at the Euros - sometimes even goes on to win the whole thing!), and you have to have a much fancied England team go out, having played better in the 90 mins, on penalties (preferably to the Germans). These are the elements you need in place for a truly great tournament.

So far we have:-
1. Massive favourite out early = FRANCE
2. Plucky underdog overperforming = UKRAINE?
3. England out on penos = in the QF?!

And of course you have to speculate on who the new Pearce / Southgate / Batty / Vassel / Lampard / Cole will be...

There are at leadt 3 plucky underdogs.
Switzerland have a fighting chance against Spain

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

WHITE FOOTBALLERS MATTER?

Have you noticed, in the knockout stages of this tournament - the team wearing WHITE jerseys goes through to the next stage... every single time!
Spooky.

I wonder what ENGLAND will be wearing tonight?

[Marc Meakin]

Penalty shoot outs are so last decade.

[Gavin Chipper]

I predict that Eoin will predict an England loss on penalties in the semi-finals.

[Marc Meakin]

I predict that Eoin will predict an England loss on penalties in the semi-finals.

Very nearly what I was going to post
I also very nearly posted how i got 3 out four quarter final predictions almost spot on

[Marc Meakin]

I think there will be one more penalty shoot out on Tuesday
Predictions for Semi final.
Spain v Italy 2-2 aet Spain to win on Penalties
England vDenmark 2 - 1

[Marc Meakin]

Are England that good or are the rest of Europe mediocre?

[Phil H]

Are England that good or are the rest of Europe mediocre?

It's all relative. England have a very decent squad but there's been an element of luck in others being affected by injury (Belgium) and in-fighting (France). None of the teams left in the tournament are close to the level of Spain in 2012 or France in 2000, but whoever wins probably won't be the worst team to have won it, either.

I do find a lot of the comments since Saturday frustratingly premature - it's entirely possible that England could still lose to Denmark, and in that event your question wouldn't make that much sense.

[Mark James]

Are England that good or are the rest of Europe mediocre?

It's all relative. England have a very decent squad but there's been an element of luck in others being affected by injury (Belgium) and in-fighting (France). None of the teams left in the tournament are close to the level of Spain in 2012 or France in 2000, but whoever wins probably won't be the worst team to have won it, either.

I do find a lot of the comments since Saturday frustratingly premature - it's entirely possible that England could still lose to Denmark, and in that event your question wouldn't make that much sense.

Yep. This is one of the reasons people like it when yis lose. The shitty media reaction. Gabriel Clarke kept asking players when was the last time England scored 4 in a knockout game, the answer being the final in 66 and you could see how uncomfortable the players were. It just heaps on the pressure. You've only reached the semis. Take it one game at a time.

Although I do love that mad mix of bravado and insecurity the English have. They think they have it practically won and yet if they do it'll be because everyone else was crap?

Southgate has been fantastic though. If they do go on to win, as annoying as it would be, I'd be chuffed for him.

International football isn't what it was. Not that the overall quality has necessarily reduced but certainly the gap in quality between teams has been reduced. Nearly anyone can beat anyone on a good day. Particularly in Europe. I'd place this current England in the top tier though of teams who should win more often than not.

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

Southgate has been fantastic though. If they do go on to win, as annoying as it would be, I'd be chuffed for him.

I didn't even realise I thought this, until you articulated it for me!
There were even more strongly conflicted feelings in '96...
That Lightning Seeds song and the poignant anthemic quality it has, I loved it so much... I was actually rooting for England to win. Then when Southgate missed his peno, there was a heady mix of evil sadistic joy, and deep sympathy for him and the team.

Christ, it is so complicated being Irish watching England.

[Gavin Chipper]

None of the teams left in the tournament are close to the level of Spain in 2012 or France in 2000

Obviously I'm no expert in football but I did watch some of Euro 2000 and were France even the best team in that? I felt the Netherlands were. They lost to Italy in a 1 in a million statistical fluke in a game they dominated, and France didn't look that much better than Italy in the final.

The Netherlands also beat France earlier on, but that was arguably not that relevant.

[Phil H]

None of the teams left in the tournament are close to the level of Spain in 2012 or France in 2000

Obviously I'm no expert in football but I did watch some of Euro 2000 and were France even the best team in that? I felt the Netherlands were. They lost to Italy in a 1 in a million statistical fluke in a game they dominated, and France didn't look that much better than Italy in the final.

The Netherlands also beat France earlier on, but that was arguably not that relevant.

I mean, I think the point stands either way. But to answer directly - I don't know if I remember well enough to be dogmatic about it, but I thought France, Netherlands and Portugal were the three best teams and was glad Italy didn't win overall. France edged Portugal in the semi-final; Netherlands had an impressive tournament and I'd have liked to see them win, but penalties are a part of football and that turned out to be their downfall.

There's a great book about Dutch football called 'Brilliant Orange' which makes a highly persuasive - maybe even conclusive - case that Netherlands' poor performances at penalties, both in 2000 and historically, were no accident.

[Gavin Chipper]

Yeah I suppose but they should have scored about 3 or 4 past Italy without the need for penalties.

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

SEMI-FINAL predictions!!!


ITALY............. 3:1 .........Spain
ENGLAND........ 5:0 .....Denmark

Is it coming home?
Well it's gonna be at Wembley till Sunday...

[Marc Meakin]

SEMI-FINAL predictions!!!


ITALY............. 3:1 .........Spain
ENGLAND........ 5:0 .....Denmark

Is it coming home?
Well it's gonna be at Wembley till Sunday...

Is this some kind of reverse psychology picking an easy England win because you secretly want penalties

[Gavin Chipper]

SEMI-FINAL predictions!!!


ITALY............. 3:1 .........Spain
ENGLAND........ 5:0 .....Denmark

Is it coming home?
Well it's gonna be at Wembley till Sunday...

Is this some kind of reverse psychology picking an easy England win because you secretly want penalties

Yeah, he thinks the Gods of fate base how the future will turn out on his own predictions.

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

Ok, well... the logic here is multi-faceted.

Firstly, it has been annoying that my innate anti-English racism is scuppering my prediction rate. I'd have called 4/4 SFists correctly had I just bit the bullet and predicted the obvious England win over Ukraine.

Secondly, that 1996 Lightning Seeds feeling is coming back to me. It's what Mark said. Southgate needs a redemption tale. So, getting an England team further into a tournament than any team since 1966... would be a fitting personal story arc for him.

Thirdly, It is only ever fun for England to go out of a tournament in a hilarious way... so the two best possible scenarios are:
1. They draw with Denmark 0-0, and go out on penos. That way they are the only team to keep a clean sheet in the tourney, so ye have a whole shitload of new "if onlys" to add to the historical collection.
2. They demolish Denmark, and face a team that played poorly in the Semi and scraped through on penos. This way, the tabloids would already have England as winners before a ball is kicked in the final. No better time to lose than when confidence is at an all-time high.

The only things I really don't want to happen are:-
a) Denmark to win the semi by any means other than a penalty shootout. Southgate needs his moment. He must at the very least tie Venables' achievement in 1996.
b) England to win. (Sorry, not sorry. I was born this way! https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2021/ ... the-euros/)

[Mark James]

Once again the media have hyped themselves up so much that any sort of loss for England between now and Sunday will be hilarious. Rio Ferdinand in particular is so insufferably convinced I'm especially looking forward to his reaction should they fail.

[Marc Meakin]

You could put a positive spin on an England win.
One in 13 players are of Irish decent.
Your most successful manager was an Englishman.
Some of your best ever players were English
You was once ruled by the English

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

You could put a positive spin on an England win.
One in 13 players are of Irish decent.
Your most successful manager was an Englishman.
Some of your best ever players were English
You was once ruled by the English

*URGE TO KILL - RISING...*

[Gavin Chipper]

I wonder at what point people will realise that although it takes basically the same amount of effort to win the Euros as the World Cup, it's still not the big prize. Whatever happens, it will still be 55 years and counting.

[Gavin Chipper]

Also, why is a penalty always considered really good if it goes in and shit if it doesn't? It's never "Shit penalty, lucky to score with that" or "Good penalty but the keeper was just fucking awesome there".

[Marc Meakin]

Also, why is a penalty always considered really good if it goes in and shit if it doesn't? It's never "Shit penalty, lucky to score with that" or "Good penalty but the keeper was just fucking awesome there".

As a former school goalkeeper ican say from experience that if you watch the ball not the player you should always go the right way but the penalty taker should still always score.
Jorginho nearly always scores his penalties because his little twitch (surely should be made illegal by Sunday) makes most goalkeepers commit
He did have one saved once when a combination of a too softly taken penalty coupled with the goalkeeper waiting for the ball to move meant it was easily saved.

Still beggars belief when a player misses the target completely.
Ala Miss Diana Ross

[Noel Mc]

You was once ruled by the English

*are still


Copa America Final in Saturday night - Brazil v Argentina

[Fred Mumford]

Still beggars belief when a player misses the target completely.
Ala Miss Diana Ross

That was deliberate, albeit a misunderstanding. The stadium announcer said "Miss Diana Ross", and so that's what she did.

[Marc Meakin]

You was once ruled by the English

*are still


Copa America Final in Saturday night - Brazil v Argentina

Messi might finally win a major trophy with his country

[Marc Meakin]

You was once ruled by the English

*are still
850 years of hurt (approx)

Copa America Final in Saturday night - Brazil v Argentina

[Gavin Chipper]

You was once ruled by the English

*are still


Copa America Final in Saturday night - Brazil v Argentina

Messi might finally win a major trophy with his country

I'm surprised he's never won it. Surely there's far fewer potential winners in South America than Europe. No South American team other than Brazil or Argentina have won the World Cup since 1950, or even made the final.

[Marc Meakin]

I wonder at what point people will realise that although it takes basically the same amount of effort to win the Euros as the World Cup, it's still not the big prize. Whatever happens, it will still be 55 years and counting.

Tou cant deny the World cup is more prestigious, it beggars belief that the year Italy won the Euros only 4 teams qualified and Italy won their semifinal against USSR aet by the toss of a coin.
However nowadays you could argue that the Euros have more quality teams seeing as apart from Brazil, Argentina and maybe Columbia mist of the worlds top 20 ranked sides are from Europe

[Noel Mc]

There are 10 South American teams.

3 in the top 10 (Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay)
5 in the top 20 (Colombia and Chile)

[Gavin Chipper]

However nowadays you could argue that the Euros have more quality teams seeing as apart from Brazil, Argentina and maybe Columbia mist of the worlds top 20 ranked sides are from Europe

But this is kind of the point. Still all the hard work to win but without the World Cup at the end of it. Just some regional championship.

[Noel Mc]

I wonder at what point people will realise that although it takes basically the same amount of effort to win the Euros as the World Cup, it's still not the big prize. Whatever happens, it will still be 55 years and counting.

The group stages of the Euros are considerably easier. The fact you can get out of your group with 3 points is dumb. Portugal won the whole thing last time with 3 draws in the group stage.

The knockout stages are comparable, but I would still say the World Cup edges it with difficulty.

Euro 2020 Last 16 Teams

Portugal
France
Belgium
Spain
Croatia
Denmark
Sweden
Switzerland
England
Italy Austria Ukraine Netherlands Czech Republic Germany Wales

World Cup 2018 Last 16

Uruguay
Portugal
France
Argentina
Brazil
Mexico
Belgium
Japan
Spain
Russia
Croatia
Denmark
Sweden
Switzerland
Colombia
England



So, from WC, take out:
Uruguay (9), Argentina (8), Brazil (3), Mexico (11), Japan (28), Russia (38), Colombia (15)
Total of ranks - 112
Mean rank - 16

and replace with:

Italy (7), Austria (23), Ukraine (24), Netherlands (16), Czech Republic (40), Germany (12), Wales (17)
Total of ranks - 139
Mean rank - 20


Edit - the FIFA rankings are a bit dumb, but probably the best thing we have to go by

[Thomas Carey]

I wonder at what point people will realise that although it takes basically the same amount of effort to win the Euros as the World Cup, it's still not the big prize. Whatever happens, it will still be 55 years and counting.

The group stages of the Euros are considerably easier. The fact you can get out of your group with 3 points is dumb. Portugal won the whole thing last time with 3 draws in the group stage.

You can get out of your group in a world cup with 3 points, and it's not super unusual. Denmark were second in their group with three points this Euros. You can teeeeeeeechnically get out of the group with 1 point in the new Euros format, although it would require three separate groups to have two teams that draw with each other and both lose the other two games, so would pretty much never happen in practice.

[Noel Mc]

I wonder at what point people will realise that although it takes basically the same amount of effort to win the Euros as the World Cup, it's still not the big prize. Whatever happens, it will still be 55 years and counting.

The group stages of the Euros are considerably easier. The fact you can get out of your group with 3 points is dumb. Portugal won the whole thing last time with 3 draws in the group stage.

You can get out of your group in a world cup with 3 points, and it's not super unusual. Denmark were second in their group with three points this Euros. You can teeeeeeeechnically get out of the group with 1 point in the new Euros format, although it would require three separate groups to have two teams that draw with each other and both lose the other two games, so would pretty much never happen in practice.

True. I suppose the ridiculousness of it is that you can be assured of qualification so much earlier. It's probably not so much the number of points, so much the 3rd place rule in particular.

[Mark James]

As far as tonight's Euro semi final goes and who to support it's time for the Irish to forget the past and take a more grown up attitude to cheering on our old enemy. Let's face it there's no point in continuing to hold on to these historical grudges nowadays. It's time to let bygones be bygones and begrudgingly recognise that those viking raids happened a long long time ago and we should have no issues throwing our full support behind Denmark.

[Noel Mc]

Typing this whilst it's currently 1-1. Denmark definitely look more like scoring.

Saw a newspaper back page today (the Mirror I think)

IT'S ITALY VS ENGLAND*

or denmark


Granted, that's only one newspaper and isn't necessarily reflective of the majority of England fans/media etc.

You can understand why England aren't too popular outside of England though...

[Marc Meakin]

Irish fans should be happy.
England miss a penalty

[Mark James]

Shocking decision. Two balls on the pitch and a blatant dive.

[Noel Mc]

Shocking decision. Two balls on the pitch and a blatant dive.

and two balls on the pitch literally a foot apart at one point.

[L'oisleatch McGraw]

That match will be a talking point for years and years.
Controversial peno!

I wonder, had the peno not happened, would England's relentless pressure have lead to 2-1 within the final 15 mins anyway?
If not, I would fancy Shhh-Michael over Miskickford for penalty saves.

[Marc Meakin]

Shocking decision. Two balls on the pitch and a blatant dive.

and two balls on the pitch literally a foot apart at one point.

I think the ref was addressing the stonewall penalty earlier on Harry Kane.that he didnt even check.
I must have missed the 2 balls incident

The ref was crap the free kicks that lead to the superb goal by Denmark were equally dodgy