c4countdown

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:06 am That reminds me - is it still the case that some people are exempt from wearing masks but this is supposed to just be taken by their word? I imagine that is causing problems.

You can buy face-covering exemption lanyards online-no confirmation of condition needed. Yay in the fact that people with conditions such as autism or other sensory disorders can get them. Nay in the fact that the people who are very skilled at being wrong and claim being forced to wear face coverings is an affront to their civil rights can also piggy-back off it as well. Thought I've not seen many face-covering exempt people out and about-meaning that it's hopefully a tiny proportion of the small amount of people who are exempt are the ones cheating here.

I got a text today saying I can now book my vaccination! However, when I went online to do so, it said the nearest place was 15 miles away. But I know that people have had vaccinations within walking distance from me, plus two other places much closer than 15 miles. So I decided to ring up and see what they had to say, and the woman offered the same 15-mile-away location. When I questioned it, she said they might just be fully booked up. Yeah, I'm not that desperate. I'll just check online every day. But it shows that even though they're offering it to the same ages across England, not every place is equally equipped to deal with it.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:36 pm I got a text today saying I can now book my vaccination! However, when I went online to do so, it said the nearest place was 15 miles away. But I know that people have had vaccinations within walking distance from me, plus two other places much closer than 15 miles. So I decided to ring up and see what they had to say, and the woman offered the same 15-mile-away location. When I questioned it, she said they might just be fully booked up. Yeah, I'm not that desperate. I'll just check online every day. But it shows that even though they're offering it to the same ages across England, not every place is equally equipped to deal with it.

From my experience, my husband who is next age band up from me booked his through the website at one of the big centres - it was a couple of weeks wait.

I then got a text from my surgery with a link to book locally at the surgery which I did, and got mine before him. He was a tad miffed

So if you hold out, you'll probably get an invitation.

I tried again today and the nearest centre is now 18 miles away so it's going up. This reminds me of holding out for a cheaper Travelodge price at COLIN.

That's well outside the radius.

Yes. It's actually 19.8, not 18. My mistake.

One of my nephews said his form teacher told them that he was given the option to send his vaccine to India rather than have it himself. I don't think this is a thing. I wonder if he was also asked for his bank details.

I asked this on a Scrabble group but it works here.
What measures would you need to be in place for a face to face co event to work for you.
I would have thought evidence of a vaccination and a rapid flow Co-Vid test as a bare minimum for each plaer/organiser

Basically when pretty much everyone has been vaccinated (including me), I'll be happy to go. Bascially when I'm vaccinated actually. I wouldn't ask for any measures. Unless there's evidence of a new variant going about ignoring the vaccines.

Honestly? Now we've had most people vaccinated, nothing at all, save for a vaccine-evading variant. No social distancing, no face masks... the likelihood of catching it are small, and the likes of it causing a severe illness are even smaller.

Is it that unreasonable to want to live as we did in February 2020?

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 10:42 am Basically when pretty much everyone has been vaccinated (including me), I'll be happy to go. Bascially when I'm vaccinated actually. I wouldn't ask for any measures. Unless there's evidence of a new variant going about ignoring the vaccines.

Gev vaccine watch update, how close now and what would you deem close enough?

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:55 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 10:42 am Basically when pretty much everyone has been vaccinated (including me), I'll be happy to go. Bascially when I'm vaccinated actually. I wouldn't ask for any measures. Unless there's evidence of a new variant going about ignoring the vaccines.

Gev vaccine watch update, how close now and what would you deem close enough?

Right now 14.7 miles. I know of two centres within 5 miles of me. I'm holding out for one of them. The closest available one I've ever had has been 12.7 miles (I check multiple times a day). They measure it as the crow flies as well, so it's further in reality.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 4:01 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:55 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 10:42 am Basically when pretty much everyone has been vaccinated (including me), I'll be happy to go. Bascially when I'm vaccinated actually. I wouldn't ask for any measures. Unless there's evidence of a new variant going about ignoring the vaccines.

Gev vaccine watch update, how close now and what would you deem close enough?

Right now 14.7 miles. I know of two centres within 5 miles of me. I'm holding out for one of them. The closest available one I've ever had has been 12.7 miles (I check multiple times a day). They measure it as the crow flies as well, so it's further in reality.

Isnt it conceivable that the distance they want you to travel correlates to your age and ability to travel further than an old or disabled person?

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 7:42 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 4:01 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:55 pm
Gev vaccine watch update, how close now and what would you deem close enough?

Right now 14.7 miles. I know of two centres within 5 miles of me. I'm holding out for one of them. The closest available one I've ever had has been 12.7 miles (I check multiple times a day). They measure it as the crow flies as well, so it's further in reality.

Isnt it conceivable that the distance they want you to travel correlates to your age and ability to travel further than an old or disabled person?

I doubt the algorithm takes this into account. It has no idea about people's ability to travel anyway so shouldn't be making such sweeping assumptions. Plus the reason they've been staggering the times is so that everyone can get vaccinated at a reasonable place. It doesn't make sense for younger and healthier people to have to wait months for the more vulnerable to be vaccinated only to still have to travel miles and miles anyway.

Edit - Plus also it keeps changing where the nearest one is suggesting that it's just down to availability. And there's no reason why they'd want someone to travel just because they're deemed young or healthy. Are the people who live 15 miles or so away from me being told to come to where I live for their vaccine? The bottom line is that the vaccine availability around where I live is just terrible and they need to sort it out.

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 1:41 pm Honestly? Now we've had most people vaccinated, nothing at all, save for a vaccine-evading variant. No social distancing, no face masks... the likelihood of catching it are small, and the likes of it causing a severe illness are even smaller.

Is it that unreasonable to want to live as we did in February 2020?

Except...most people aren't vaccinated. Not fully, anyway. As of the 5th May, 52.4% of people in the UK had had at least one dose, but only 24.4% had had their second. I'd rather things be played cautiously (waiting until the figure for vaccinations is a lot higher), than see everything lifted immediately and cases potentially skyrocketing again.

Even if you're just going off the one dose for your metric of "vaccinated", the figure still isn't at the level where you could reasonably claim herd immunity. If waiting another month or two just to be virtually certain of safety is what it takes, then I'd much rather that than having corners cut now and loads of success potentially being undone.

On my 18th look at the website today, I got the opportunity to book a vaccine appointment near where I live. Obviously I pounced on the opportunity immediately, but then when it came to booking the second appointment, I couldn't get the same place, or anywhere within 15 miles.

But the really stupid thing is that it doesn't say whether the first appointment is actually booked or not. It seems not actually but it doesn't tell you that and I can quite imagine people turning up to appointments that they're not booked in for. It's a fucking stupid system and I'm amazed that over 50% of people have managed to have a vaccine given how bad it is.

Edit - I've now managed to book my appointments. By putting in a different time for my first appointment, times magically became available for the second one. So you have to use trial and error for the first one rather than the sensible option of being able to select the first one knowing in advance you'll be able to get a second one. It's moronic.

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 9:46 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 1:41 pm Honestly? Now we've had most people vaccinated, nothing at all, save for a vaccine-evading variant. No social distancing, no face masks... the likelihood of catching it are small, and the likes of it causing a severe illness are even smaller.

Is it that unreasonable to want to live as we did in February 2020?

Except...most people aren't vaccinated. Not fully, anyway. As of the 5th May, 52.4% of people in the UK had had at least one dose, but only 24.4% had had their second. I'd rather things be played cautiously (waiting until the figure for vaccinations is a lot higher), than see everything lifted immediately and cases potentially skyrocketing again.

Even if you're just going off the one dose for your metric of "vaccinated", the figure still isn't at the level where you could reasonably claim herd immunity. If waiting another month or two just to be virtually certain of safety is what it takes, then I'd much rather that than having corners cut now and loads of success potentially being undone.

Either I misunderstood the question, or we were talking about once social distancing ends and these gatherings become legal, by which time almost every adult will have have had a first dose?

It's worth noting that as long as there's still a lot of virus going about we really shouldn't be using the high proportion of people vaccinated as a reason to disregard other measures that prevent transmission of the virus. That would create an evolutionary environment which places a ton of selective pressure on the virus to develop vaccine resistance. Sort of analogous to the reason why you shouldn't stop taking antibiotics before the course is completed just because you feel better.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 6:47 pm On my 18th look at the website today, I got the opportunity to book a vaccine appointment near where I live. Obviously I pounced on the opportunity immediately, but then when it came to booking the second appointment, I couldn't get the same place, or anywhere within 15 miles.

But the really stupid thing is that it doesn't say whether the first appointment is actually booked or not. It seems not actually but it doesn't tell you that and I can quite imagine people turning up to appointments that they're not booked in for. It's a fucking stupid system and I'm amazed that over 50% of people have managed to have a vaccine given how bad it is.

Edit - I've now managed to book my appointments. By putting in a different time for my first appointment, times magically became available for the second one. So you have to use trial and error for the first one rather than the sensible option of being able to select the first one knowing in advance you'll be able to get a second one. It's moronic.

Hallelujah
All you have to do now is avoid Covid symptoms on the day

I had my first dose of the vaccine yesterday. further to this being a rubbish system, when I booked my appointments I gave my mobile number and e-mail address but got no confirmation e-mail/text. And when I had my vaccine, the guy that did it had to play on his laptop in front of me for what seemed like 10 minutes before he could actually give me the vaccine. He seemed to think I'd already been vaccinated at first before realisng he'd pressed enter by mistake or something.

I also got a text today saying I could now ring my surgery to book an appointment. Erm, too late.

But other than a slightly sore arm, I feel spectacular.

Melbourne in a fourth lockdown now. This is surely proof that “lockdown every time there is a new case” is unsustainable in the long term?

Did you see the story about BBC journalist Nick Watt being harassed? Well, I found the footage. Lunatics.

Andrew Neil had a good piece on it on his show yesterday.

It's hard to feel anything other than hopelessness given today's numbers.

Is it just me?

Hello GAVIN CHIPPER,

This is a message about your upcoming coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccination appointment at PLACE on DATE at TIME.

Our records show that you have had both doses of the vaccine. We are therefore cancelling this appointment, which was booked through the NHS website or 119.

If you think our records are incorrect, please contact your GP surgery.

I have not had two doses. I had one, and this was my appointment for my second dose. And you've just cancelled it. Nicely on a Friday evening as well, so I can't do anything about it until Monday morning. Great work, NHS IT department.

Just been online and rebooked it. Got an earlier date as well. Maybe that was their secret plan all along.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:26 pm Is it just me?

Hello GAVIN CHIPPER,

This is a message about your upcoming coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccination appointment at PLACE on DATE at TIME.

I'm amazed they used your online pseudonym
You are taking the whole Gavin / Gevin thing to Zarte Siempre levels of commitment!

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:08 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:26 pm Is it just me?

Hello GAVIN CHIPPER,

This is a message about your upcoming coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccination appointment at PLACE on DATE at TIME.

I'm amazed they used your online pseudonym
You are taking the whole Gavin / Gevin thing to Zarte Siempre levels of commitment!

This has got me thinking how many forumites here are using a pseudonym?
Should they all come forward or be outed.
What name is Richard Brittain going by now?
Ditto Zef

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:36 am This has got me thinking how many forumites here are using a pseudonym?
Should they all come forward or be outed.

We have a thread for that now!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13716

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:26 pm Is it just me?

Hello GAVIN CHIPPER,

This is a message about your upcoming coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccination appointment at PLACE on DATE at TIME.

Our records show that you have had both doses of the vaccine. We are therefore cancelling this appointment, which was booked through the NHS website or 119.

If you think our records are incorrect, please contact your GP surgery.

I have not had two doses. I had one, and this was my appointment for my second dose. And you've just cancelled it. Nicely on a Friday evening as well, so I can't do anything about it until Monday morning. Great work, NHS IT department.

I had my second vaccination today. I was worried right up until it was done that something would go wrong and they'd try to turn me away because their database had messed something up. But anyway, that's that. We can open up the world again!

Are we happy now?
I probably will still wear a mask in public but wobt get that panic if ive left it at home.
I still think this is the government putting the economy before safety

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:04 am Are we happy now?
I probably will still wear a mask in public but wobt get that panic if ive left it at home.
I still think this is the government putting the economy before safety

I think I'll try and carry one with me and if I feel the situation might need one then I can put it on, generally though I'll be pleased to get away without.

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:04 am Are we happy now?
I probably will still wear a mask in public but wobt get that panic if ive left it at home.
I still think this is the government putting the economy before safety

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. All the vulnerable have now been fully vaccinated (at least as far as those who took the vaccine), as well as a good chunk of those who aren't clinically vulnerable at all. At some point, we've got to accept that we're not going to eradicate the virus and learn to live with the fact it's just going to be another virus that is prevalent in the world. You've got to rip the band aid off at some point. I have enormous reservations over how the government have handled this as a whole, but I think opening up is probably justified now. Furthermore, it isn't as though vaccination efforts are just going to cease after the 19th - people will still get vaccinated and this will enable us to keep a firm grip on the virus long term. I think it'd be a good idea to vaccinate at least children in secondary schools, since they probably do the most mixing and you could give a dose to an entire school in one day.

Before this, we vaccinated over 55s against the flue and that was that - people still caught it, some people still died of it, but the fatalities were low enough relative to the population size that it would have been considered an overreaction to do anything more. Now obviously COVID isn't the same as the flue, but it's the same principle - there were absolutely loads of flue strains as a result of mutations, the jab just dealt with what were the most virulent strains, providing sufficient protection for the population as a whole. There are loads of COVID variants, but it seems as though we've got a handle upon the virus as a whole over here. The variants only become a major point of concern if there exists a particularly nasty strain that is both highly contagious and immune to the known vaccines - not to say this couldn't happen, but it doesn't seem to be on the horizon and I feel like keeping everything restricted on the off chance that it does isn't a very progressive way of moving forward as a society. I am sure that there are contingency plans if this does happen, in any case.

At this stage, I'm not concerned about personally contracting the virus - heck I've had it once and the odds aren't exactly great that I'll never catch it again (though what with being vaccinated I should be safer if I do), I'm worried about the societal disunity between those who want to carry on with all precautions, and those who want to move on. I've seen the righteousness from both sides - "I saw her at number 53 having a few people in her garden today, and they weren't distanced, I get it's legal but it's SO irresponsible" and "Some people are absolutely nuts, wearing masks when they see their friends. Morons." This to me is a huge concern, because it's potentially going to create a toxic culture within society where people feel like they're morally superior because they're on a particular side, and those who aren't in agreement are to be shunned (not that it didn't sort of exist already with politics, but this is just adding another layer to it).

I'm happy to concede to greater reasoning as to why I might be missing the mark, but for me I think it's about time we got things moving again, without restrictions (barring possibly some travel restrictions until some countries catch up with vaccination efforts).

I don't think keeping compulsory face masks in some situations (e.g. shops and public transport) for a little while longer while everything is open would be a major imposition. Especially since they're not really compulsory anyway as you can claim exemption without having to prove it.

As long as they open the parkruns.

Travel restrictions for Britons leaving are obviously not under our own control. As Theresa May said in the House recently, are New Zealand etc. going to keep their borders closed seemingly forever? The Australian GP has just been cancelled for that reason, as the Australian government won't waive quarantine for F1... even in November.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:08 pm I don't think keeping compulsory face masks in some situations (e.g. shops and public transport) for a little while longer while everything is open would be a major imposition. Especially since they're not really compulsory anyway as you can claim exemption without having to prove it.

As long as the open the parkruns.

I don't think that's such a bad idea, but as far as most things go, we need to start resuming life as before.

There definitely seems to be a concerted effort at present to change the public mindset towards this virus. It feels a lot like accepting defeat while trying to claim it as victory. I believe it was (and possibly still is) possible to drive the virus to extinction, but we've now accepted it as a 'new flu'. Gaining a new 'flu' is a massive defeat for humanity. Sure it could have been a bigger defeat given how bad things looked at the start of the outbreak but I don't find it too easy to join in the enthusiastic triumphal cheers.

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:32 pm There definitely seems to be a concerted effort at present to change the public mindset towards this virus. It feels a lot like accepting defeat while trying to claim it as victory. I believe it was (and possibly still is) possible to drive the virus to extinction, but we've now accepted it as a 'new flu'. Gaining a new 'flu' is a massive defeat for humanity. Sure it could have been a bigger defeat given how bad things looked at the start of the outbreak but I don't find it too easy to join in the enthusiastic triumphal cheers.

If I thought it was feasible to do that, I'd be in favour of it. But I really don't see how you can eradicate COVID without massively crippling over the economy and livelihoods for possibly several years, and even then it wouldn't be guaranteed you'd get rid of it. I agree on the point that gaining a new prevalent virus is a defeat for humanity, but I (sadly) believe that it's one we'll have to accept. We can vaccinate as many people as possible, and ensure that fatalities are minimised, but eradicating a virus just isn't an easy task and if several lockdowns didn't make it extinct, I don't really see what would. Humans thrive on social interaction and the level of social isolation that would be required to get anywhere near extincting COVID would certainly have unparalleled mental health repercussions, which isn't necessarily better than merely minimising the impact of the virus while accepting it will exist.

I'm happy to concede to greater argument and this is by no means a rigid viewpoint of mine that I wouldn't change, but that's how it appears to me and I of course welcome debate on this.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:08 pm I don't think keeping compulsory face masks in some situations (e.g. shops and public transport) for a little while longer while everything is open would be a major imposition.

That's because you don't work in a shop, bar, restaurant or on public transport.

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:18 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:08 pm I don't think keeping compulsory face masks in some situations (e.g. shops and public transport) for a little while longer while everything is open would be a major imposition.

That's because you don't work in a shop, bar, restaurant or on public transport.

You wouldn't have to make it compulsory for workers.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:34 pm You wouldn't have to make it compulsory for workers.

They would still be required to enforce it. Assaults on shop assistants are up 7% in the past 12 months

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:39 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:34 pm You wouldn't have to make it compulsory for workers.

They would still be required to enforce it. Assaults on shop assistants are up 7% in the past 12 months

That doesn't seem like a particularly noteworthy statistic. Do you have a source so we can see what a regular baseline would be?

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:39 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:34 pm You wouldn't have to make it compulsory for workers.

They would still be required to enforce it. Assaults on shop assistants are up 7% in the past 12 months

Would they though? People with exemptions don't have to prove it. Stick up signs saying that you have to wear a mask unless you're exempt and leave it at that. Anything more than that is going beyond the call of duty. Shops are not the police.

The problem with any discussions like this, however, is that it's all a case of "if not now, then when?" and that's almost certainly indefinite.

Jon O'Neill wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:00 pm

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:39 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:34 pm You wouldn't have to make it compulsory for workers.

They would still be required to enforce it. Assaults on shop assistants are up 7% in the past 12 months

That doesn't seem like a particularly noteworthy statistic. Do you have a source so we can see what a regular baseline would be?

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpoli ... opworkers/

Here's a report from USDAW from last December that claims that verbal and physical assaults on shop workers had doubled under Covid restrictions.

The 7% figure for physical assaults was from a report on GB News earlier this week. I'm surprised you missed it.

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:55 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:00 pm

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:39 pm

They would still be required to enforce it. Assaults on shop assistants are up 7% in the past 12 months

That doesn't seem like a particularly noteworthy statistic. Do you have a source so we can see what a regular baseline would be?

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpoli ... opworkers/

Here's a report from USDAW from last December that claims that verbal and physical assaults on shop workers had doubled under Covid restrictions.

The 7% figure for physical assaults was from a report on GB News earlier this week. I'm surprised you missed it.

I'm surprised you think shop workers want to end the requirement to wear masks now, and especially that you cite Usdaw in apparent support of that.

Here's a statement from Usdaw from this week. Usdaw's position is that the planned removal of the mask requirement is "too much too soon" and that "Wearing a face covering in crowded public areas like shops is not merely a personal choice, it is an important measure to help protect workers who have no option but to interact with large numbers of people as a part of their job."

Graeme Cole wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:52 pm

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:55 pm

Jon O'Neill wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:00 pm

That doesn't seem like a particularly noteworthy statistic. Do you have a source so we can see what a regular baseline would be?

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpoli ... opworkers/

Here's a report from USDAW from last December that claims that verbal and physical assaults on shop workers had doubled under Covid restrictions.

The 7% figure for physical assaults was from a report on GB News earlier this week. I'm surprised you missed it.

I'm surprised you think shop workers want to end the requirement to wear masks now, and especially that you cite Usdaw in apparent support of that.

Here's a statement from Usdaw from this week. Usdaw's position is that the planned removal of the mask requirement is "too much too soon" and that "Wearing a face covering in crowded public areas like shops is not merely a personal choice, it is an important measure to help protect workers who have no option but to interact with large numbers of people as a part of their job."

I didn't say shop workers want to stop wearing masks. I pointed out that just because someone thinks "I don't mind popping on a mask when I buy a pint of milk" isn't a valid reason to carry on the restrictions.

It's not just retail either. Employees in the hospitality sector would be affected too.

An Ipsos MORI poll revealed that 40% want mask-wearing to be mandatory FOREVER, regardless of the risk of Covid-19.

22% want casinos and clubs permanently closed.

God help us.

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:11 pm An Ipsos MORI poll revealed that 40% want mask-wearing to be mandatory FOREVER, regardless of the risk of Covid-19.

22% want casinos and clubs permanently closed.

God help us.

This doesn't pass the sniff test. What's your source?

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/ ... ot-forever

26%, not 22% want casinos and night clubs to be closed permenantly.

Also 19% want a permenant curfew against leaving home after 10pm without a good reason.

OK, thanks for the link. Some surprising stuff there. At the end it says:

Ipsos MORI interviewed a representative sample of 1,025 British adults aged 16-75. Interviews were conducted online from 2-3 July 2021. Data are weighted to match the profile of the population. All polls are subject to a wide range of potential sources of error.

And you always wonder how much error there might be in their sampling. Plus if the questions are worded in a particular way it can bias results. People might even have misread or misinterpreted questions if they weren't clear enough, or even if they were. This obviously goes for any survey ever, not just ones with results that surprise me.

I think there might be quite a strong correlation between a) answering Ipsos MORI polls and b) not having a social life, not wanting one, and not wanting anyone else to have one.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:01 pm OK, thanks for the link. Some surprising stuff there. At the end it says:

Ipsos MORI interviewed a representative sample of 1,025 British adults aged 16-75. Interviews were conducted online from 2-3 July 2021. Data are weighted to match the profile of the population. All polls are subject to a wide range of potential sources of error.

And you always wonder how much error there might be in their sampling. Plus if the questions are worded in a particular way it can bias results. People might even have misread or misinterpreted questions if they weren't clear enough, or even if they were. This obviously goes for any survey ever, not just ones with results that surprise me.

Ipsos MORI are extremely reputable, however. They do the general election exit poll along with NOP, so it’s not as though they don’t know what they’re doing.

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:11 pm An Ipsos MORI poll revealed that 40% want mask-wearing to be mandatory FOREVER, regardless of the risk of Covid-19.

22% want casinos and clubs permanently closed.

God help us.

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:22 pm https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/ ... ot-forever

26%, not 22% want casinos and night clubs to be closed permenantly.

Also 19% want a permenant curfew against leaving home after 10pm without a good reason.

I'm sure you could find that level of support for all sorts of crazy things. I dare say the 19% who want a permanent 10pm curfew also wanted that before Covid.

Elliott Mellor wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:31 pm

Callum Todd wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:32 pm There definitely seems to be a concerted effort at present to change the public mindset towards this virus. It feels a lot like accepting defeat while trying to claim it as victory. I believe it was (and possibly still is) possible to drive the virus to extinction, but we've now accepted it as a 'new flu'. Gaining a new 'flu' is a massive defeat for humanity. Sure it could have been a bigger defeat given how bad things looked at the start of the outbreak but I don't find it too easy to join in the enthusiastic triumphal cheers.

If I thought it was feasible to do that, I'd be in favour of it. But I really don't see how you can eradicate COVID without massively crippling over the economy and livelihoods for possibly several years, and even then it wouldn't be guaranteed you'd get rid of it. I agree on the point that gaining a new prevalent virus is a defeat for humanity, but I (sadly) believe that it's one we'll have to accept. We can vaccinate as many people as possible, and ensure that fatalities are minimised, but eradicating a virus just isn't an easy task and if several lockdowns didn't make it extinct, I don't really see what would. Humans thrive on social interaction and the level of social isolation that would be required to get anywhere near extincting COVID would certainly have unparalleled mental health repercussions, which isn't necessarily better than merely minimising the impact of the virus while accepting it will exist.

I'm happy to concede to greater argument and this is by no means a rigid viewpoint of mine that I wouldn't change, but that's how it appears to me and I of course welcome debate on this.

Maybe it's too late now, but arguably if every country had taken the Australia / New Zealand approach, we could have got rid of it. They basically eliminated it and new cases I think generally came from other countries. But if these other countries had also taken their approach, it wouldn't have happened. Trying to do that now though would meet with way too much opposition and would be a complete non-starter.

New South Wales has been in lockdown for 5 weeks and cases are still rising.

NZ is an exception, not a rule.

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:11 pm Maybe it's too late now, but arguably if every country had taken the Australia / New Zealand approach, we could have got rid of it. They basically eliminated it and new cases I think generally came from other countries. But if these other countries had also taken their approach, it wouldn't have happened. Trying to do that now though would meet with way too much opposition and would be a complete non-starter.

Firstly, if this had been suggested at the beginning of 2020, there would have been too much opposition and it would have been a complete non-starter.

Secondly, the UK is not self-sufficient. There would have to be some interaction at borders, or we would be facing starvation by now.

Paul Worsley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:50 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:11 pm Maybe it's too late now, but arguably if every country had taken the Australia / New Zealand approach, we could have got rid of it. They basically eliminated it and new cases I think generally came from other countries. But if these other countries had also taken their approach, it wouldn't have happened. Trying to do that now though would meet with way too much opposition and would be a complete non-starter.

Firstly, if this had been suggested at the beginning of 2020, there would have been too much opposition and it would have been a complete non-starter.

Secondly, the UK is not self-sufficient. There would have to be some interaction at borders, or we would be facing starvation by now.

But why does any of this apply more to the UK than it does to Australia or New Zealand?

Both countries are larger (in the case of Australia, much larger), and have smaller populations (in the case of NZ, much smaller), than the UK. They are also isolated from their nearest neighbours. The UK can't shut down as much as they have, mainly because we don't produce enough food to feed the population. I assume Australia and NZ can.

Maybe that's the case, but I only ever heard it framed in terms of different decisions made by different politicians.