c4countdown

What kind of words do you tend to risk or not risk? As you can see, I didn't have much luck with risking on my TV appearances (CLAYED, CUDDLER, MORALISER etc.) but how well do you do?

Some of the ones I can remember from the show, I'm sure there were more.

Words I had disallowed:-
DEFUSER: Didn't seem risky, I think my brain was poisoned by Counter-Strike.
MILLEN: Seemed like a plausible adjective from mill (as in "millen corn"), but knew it was risky.
ZANEY: Knew it was bollocks, don't know why I said it.
ALIENER: Was sure it was fine, because of ALIENOR (and Scrabble poison.)
Incidentally I had no words disallowed in my first 7 games, and then 4 in my next 4.

Good words that I had but didn't risk:-
UNPITIED: Was already well ahead, and knew that steady play would guarantee the win. No point risking a zero-point round, especially because I know I tend to overestimate UN...ED words.
MEGABITS: will talk more about this when I eventually do my Experience, but I had a winning 7 anyway so no big deal.
BIOFUELS: was worried that it might be hyphenated, or just not in. Still annoys me, because this was one of my best spots and it got completely edited out.

Good words that I risked:-
WARNER: Agent nouns are always risky, but this one seemed pretty obvious. Don't know why I didn't think of WARREN.
RUTILE: Still no idea where this came from, maybe Scrabble.

Bad words that I had but didn't go for:-
IMPOSABLE. Maybe odd, but I feel this was one of my finest moments. 14-0 down after two rounds and faced with a very plausible nine, I'm pretty sure most players would have jumped on it (and I knew REIMPOSE was valid, so I was thinking that IMPOSE might be a very flexible root.) But somehow I managed to resist, and it paid off.
MATERIELS: I knew the meaning and that it was a mass noun so I really doubted that Susie would allow it, but I asked anyway just out of curiosity.

Looking back at my games, quite a few of the words I considered risky at the time probably weren't that risky at all. Of the ones that were allowed:

HIDEOUT - thought it might be hyphenated, but was reasonably confident
CARDING - I was thinking of red and yellow cards in football, turned out to be something else entirely
UNMARKED - seemed likely enough, but you never know with UN- words
DERANGE - just didn't look right, but of course is fine
MEDICO, HOURI and COMFITS - knew they were words but wasn't sure if they'd be in the book
MITHERED - fairly Northern dialecty word that I didn't expect those Oxford fancy dans to include
TALLIER - a total guess and I was amazed when it turned out to be in

As for the disallowed ones, well:

GRAIL - wasn't in the book then but has subsequently been added. A moral victory for me!
FARNESS - seemed quite likely AND STILL DOES. I wuz robbed.
ENCOIL and SNOOTER - pure bollocks that I turned out to have invented
DOGMASTER - well, I was quite far ahead and I thought it was funny (even if there was probably only about a 0.001% chance of it turning out good)

I'm sure there were a lot of risky ones that I didn't bother declaring, but it was ages ago now and I've long forgotten what they might have been. The only one I can remember was going for SNOOTER instead of TENNERS because at the time I considered it more likely to be in the dictionary...yeah, I know, I must've been on drugs or something.

Charlie Reams wrote:IMPOSABLE. Maybe odd, but I feel this was one of my finest moments. 14-0 down after two rounds and faced with a very plausible nine, I'm pretty sure most players would have jumped on it (and I knew REIMPOSE was valid, so I was thinking that IMPOSE might be a very flexible root.) But somehow I managed to resist, and it paid off.

At least someone's happy.

I had tons of words diallowed. I pride myself on being a flair player, which for me means risking just about anything. Admittedly, it costs me lots of points, especially in my early heat games where my word knowledge was less substantial than later on. Still, it makes things more fun (for me anyway). There are too many to list, but here are some of my finest offerings from the show:

CULTERING - I knew there was a 9 somewhere, which I hope you can find, and thought my opponent would get it so I tried this. Oddly enough, she went for this too rather than the actual 9.
TINGIER - I was thinking of TANGIER
DEFLAMES - was sure I'd seen it on the show before but it was probably the valid DEFAMES
MOLASS - earlier that day a contestant had MORASS and I heard it as MOLASS, plus I thought MOLASSES may be ok in the singular
PRECASTED - initially allowed bu Suze until she realised the past tense of PRECAST is itself. Worth the risk, I felt
STEAKY - opponent declared 6, mind went blank and came up with this.
OILMENT - knew this was bollocks but mind went blank and it's all I could find
FRIERS - spelling is FRYERS, felt I was unlucky here. DRIERS is ok, after all
SLOPERS - opponent declared 7 so had nothing to lose, it's actually in the 'Shorter OED'
BUMMIES - there were lots of arse-words that day, with Keith Baron clenching his buttocks and WAZOOS appearing the round before. I missed the more sensible MUMMIES.

If my opponent declares a word longer than anything I have, I tend to take wild guesses which rarely pay off. Most of the time, it makes no difference. There's the odd occasion where I think/hope they've made a mistake or can't find anything plausible so stick with less. For example, when Charlie declared 7 for ALIENER I very nearly risked LLANERI, thinking it may be a plural of LLANERO. Instead I stuck with a 6 which turned out to be a max.

Kai Laddiman wrote:What kind of words do you tend to risk or not risk? As you can see, I didn't have much luck with risking on my TV appearances (CLAYED, CUDDLER, MORALISER etc.) but how well do you do?

Huh? MORALISER is fine...

Kirk Bevins wrote:

Kai Laddiman wrote:What kind of words do you tend to risk or not risk? As you can see, I didn't have much luck with risking on my TV appearances (CLAYED, CUDDLER, MORALISER etc.) but how well do you do?

Huh? MORALISER is fine...

I think he meant that he opted not to risk it when, as you rightly say, it's ok.

Kirk Bevins wrote:

Kai Laddiman wrote:What kind of words do you tend to risk or not risk? As you can see, I didn't have much luck with risking on my TV appearances (CLAYED, CUDDLER, MORALISER etc.) but how well do you do?

Huh? MORALISER is fine...

Exactly. I mentioned it because I didn't risk it.

I didn't really go for many risks. The best of the (small) bunch was PAISAN. There was also ACHINESS (surely it's the same thing as "ache") and TOOTLE.

I went wrong with REZONES, which I still maintain is what Ken Livingstone did with the congestion charge, and the desperate SOMAINE.

I stupidly didn't go for HAULERS or MALTIEST, but the one I really regret is not declaring MAGISTERS.

Martin Bishop wrote:I didn't really go for many risks. The best of the (small) bunch was PAISAN. There was also ACHINESS (surely it's the same thing as "ache") and TOOTLE.

I went wrong with REZONES, which I still maintain is what Ken Livingstone did with the congestion charge, and the desperate SOMAINE.

I stupidly didn't go for HAULERS or MALTIEST, but the one I really regret is not declaring MAGISTERS.

I am proud that I offered just 2 disallowed words (I think).

The only one I remember risking was MOONIES, was stuck for much else to be honest. I knew it would be capitalised, but I thought it might be there referring to dropping one's trousers too...

Was also slightly tempted by DICKLESS, but thought better of it!

Bad risks:
EMPLACING - I blame Iain M Banks for this one, his "The Algebraist" which I'd just finished reading liberally uses emplace as a verb.
GORSIEST - This wasn't too much of a risk to me as it had been allowed before and has since been wrongly allowed again. Especially stupid as I also had AGISTERS written down.
GUNNERIES - Only a mass noun.
LAMPIES - Utterly, utterly stupid, attributable to a serious case of brain freeze.
MOONER - No can do
FORMATISE - Was almost certain this wasn't good, but it was tactical because either the safe 8 or 0 points would very likely lead to a crucial conundrum anyway, so it was a long shot to put the game out of reach.

Safe ones that I didn't risk:
DROPHEAD - I'd already had two disallowed in this game and it was close, so played it safe for once.
GAMINESS - Likewise, and I had a feeling only GAMIEST was good. Pretty annoyed about these two, if I'd been ballsier I would've finished my octo run GAMINESS/DEVIATOR/DROPHEAD, but it was probably good play since I only finished with 2 points fewer.
UNFIXING - It sounds daft, but it's there.
CRUSHER- Pretty idiotic looking back at it, I'd already (correctly) rejected choruser in this round and my negative feelings must have spilled over.

So not a great record really. I think overall I made 2 good calls out of about 12. I tend to play much more conservatively now, except when playing speedgoat against the good bots where the psychology is completely different and you almost feel compelled to guess something ridiculous if you've only got a crap word.

Paul Howe wrote: I tend to play much more conservatively now, except when playing speedgoat against the good bots where the psychology is completely different and you almost feel compelled to guess something ridiculous if you've only got a crap word.

You're right - it's a bit like the Countdown audition or the Countdown puzzle books - you're looking for a long word which may be a double darren. I don't like this style of practice as I've found it messes my normal game up as you end up looking for massive words in normal games, can't find them and then you're scrounging for a 5 or 6 right at the death when there were simple 7s there had you not been searching for an 8 or 9 for most of the round.

On my (lone) appearance I had both CHURNER and MODDING disallowed. I knew the former sounded iffy but my opponent had it too, so that was alright, whereas with the latter I was retarded and missed all the not-at-all-even-slightly-ever-dodgy 7s including, 'hilariously', NODDING.

Still, MODDING will totally be in one day, like LOSSIER should be already (but at least has an anagram).

Where do I begin:

1st game: Didnt risk AVERSION. Thought it might be 2 words! Would've got me a century!
2nd game: Went for the bogus STALLER, swap the vowels and ta-da!
3rd game: BLEERING, STUPID STUPID STUPID! Its BLEARING and LEERING/REELING were staring me right in the face!
4th game: Opening round didnt risk GRAPIEST or PORTAGES! I know I'm an idiot!
Second round: Went for the absurd CUTTIER just because after the first round injustice I felt I needed an early lead. There was also an N for NUTTIER!
Rd 12: Already 2 points behind I was accused by Des O of being a STALLER when my opponent declared 7 and I only had a 6 from TREENNAIL! Was considering INTERLANE (just because there hadnt been any 9s yet in my games) and interlane discipline seemed plausibly to do with driving. Needless to say when DC said INTERNAL I kicked myself!

If I'd not made just one of these mistakes I would have won my 4th game and possibly creamed Beevers in the final, maybe...

Also MODDING should defo be a word. In fact I think I'm going to commence MODDING now. Bonus prize for whoever can guess what it is I'm actually doing!

Dinos Sfyris wrote:Also MODDING should defo be a word. In fact I think I'm going to commence MODDING now. Bonus prize for whoever can guess what it is I'm actually doing!

Pix plz.

Also, if MODDING gets into the dictionary that means I'm allowed to go on the show again, right?

ULTIMATI^ and TRAINFUL^. It should be ULTIMATA and TRAINFUL is Scrabble only.

David O'Donnell wrote:ULTIMATI^ and TRAINFUL^.

Are the circumflexes some kind of C4C code for "these aren't allowable words"?

FEMURAL (x) (only spotted it in the last second, if I'd had a few more seconds to mull it over I would've remembered it's FEMORAL)
WELFARES (x) A pretty dumb risk which saw me staring defeat in the face: 17 points behind with 4 rounds to go against a numbers specialist who would pick 6 small.

I think they were the only two words I had disallowed as I generally played it pretty safe. As for "didn't risk", I think there's only GOITRED, EMETICS and FLUMPS, but none were particularly important at the time.

Phil Reynolds wrote:

David O'Donnell wrote:ULTIMATI^ and TRAINFUL^.

Are the circumflexes some kind of C4C code for "these aren't allowable words"?

Yes, they are indeed.

David O'Donnell wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:Are the circumflexes some kind of C4C code for "these aren't allowable words"?

Yes, they are indeed.

Thanks David. Are there any more bits of board-specific shorthand I should know about? Are they explained anywhere?

I didnt risk MOTTOES, MONDIAL, GODHEADS and DORADOS.

I was surprised TRIXIES and FASTERS were dissallowed and I also offered the appalling CREWIES.

Phil Reynolds wrote:

David O'Donnell wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:Are the circumflexes some kind of C4C code for "these aren't allowable words"?

Yes, they are indeed.

Thanks David. Are there any more bits of board-specific shorthand I should know about? Are they explained anywhere?

I think ~ means it can be pluralised, like, RELATION ~. I only picked these up from the old mailing list but I think it is standard Scrabble shorthand.

CUTTED
POOPER
UNRAILS
PLAICES
ENTRAILED
ALEAPING
CORNEAE
CODGE
TRACTED
HORNIES

Man, I sucked.

I CUTTED and pasted all these POOPER words but then something came ALEAPING into my CORNEAE which TRACTED me thus giving me the HORNIES.

probably my stupidest risk on the show was DAPPERS* in my champion of champions first round, which I knew was bollocks from the moment I declared the seven (my opponent had a six).

I'm still a bit gutted at having OUTLANDS^ disallowed in the subsequent game though.

Ben Wilson wrote:probably my stupidest risk on the show was DAPPERS* in my champion of champions first round, which I knew was bollocks from the moment I declared the seven (my opponent had a six).

I'm still a bit gutted at having OUTLANDS^ disallowed in the subsequent game though.

OK, so what's the difference between ^ and *?

Phil Reynolds wrote:

Ben Wilson wrote:probably my stupidest risk on the show was DAPPERS* in my champion of champions first round, which I knew was bollocks from the moment I declared the seven (my opponent had a six).

I'm still a bit gutted at having OUTLANDS^ disallowed in the subsequent game though.

OK, so what's the difference between ^ and *?

^-not in ODE but in CSW

*-utter shite regardless of dictionary.

I type that up, then I check DAPPERS^ on zyzzyva and it turns out it's a type of fish bait and thusly good in Scrabble. Shows how much I know.

The only word I had disallowed was SHAMENS because it's spelt SHAMANS. The Shamen was a popular dance group circa 1992 (indeed I have their best of album) which is where the confusion came from. The max turned out to be six, anyway.

Ben Wilson wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:

Ben Wilson wrote:probably my stupidest risk on the show was DAPPERS* in my champion of champions first round, which I knew was bollocks from the moment I declared the seven (my opponent had a six).

I'm still a bit gutted at having OUTLANDS^ disallowed in the subsequent game though.

OK, so what's the difference between ^ and *?

^-not in ODE but in CSW

*-utter shite regardless of dictionary.

Actually I'm not sure this is c4c etiquette (is that the right word?).

I use the circumflex to denote a word that is no good in Countdown (e.g. MOANIEST^) as I couldn't care less whether it's allowed in scrabble (unless you want to appear to be clever and say "I got TRAINFUL^ disallowed, but it's good in Scrabble so I'm not entirely stupid" - Sorry, David!)

Kirk Bevins wrote:Actually I'm not sure this is c4c etiquette (is that the right word?).

I use the circumflex to denote a word that is no good in Countdown (e.g. MOANIEST^) as I couldn't care less whether it's allowed in scrabble (unless you want to appear to be clever and say "I got TRAINFUL^ disallowed, but it's good in Scrabble so I'm not entirely stupid" - Sorry, David!)

I would say the word 'protocol' would be more accurate here Kirk.

I am in agreement with the rest of your post, although I find the whole thing very ugly. I'd rather just indicate that it's a phony in prose.

Jon O'Neill wrote:

Kirk Bevins wrote:Actually I'm not sure this is c4c etiquette (is that the right word?).

I use the circumflex to denote a word that is no good in Countdown (e.g. MOANIEST^) as I couldn't care less whether it's allowed in scrabble (unless you want to appear to be clever and say "I got TRAINFUL^ disallowed, but it's good in Scrabble so I'm not entirely stupid" - Sorry, David!)

I would say the word 'protocol' would be more accurate here Kirk.

I am in agreement with the rest of your post, although I find the whole thing very ugly. I'd rather just indicate that it's a phony in prose.

I think "convention" would be the closest thing. The phoney* notation is common in Scrabble and I think phoney^ notation was our attempt to have something equivalent, but I suspect we end up explaining it every time we use it, so it doesn't save much time.

I risked 'FELATED' in the audition. Sadly it has two Ls. Turned out to be risky as well as risque. Tried FREEBUMS in an Apterous game last night, but I knew it wasn't a word, also knew I oculdn't better my opponent's word so just tried it for a laugh. I'd do it on the show if I knew it wouldn't make a difference to score or didn't have any better alternatives. Worth a laugh.

I declared 'cambering' for one of the Conundrums (Conundrae?) at my audition, I'm sure I've heard a bike racing commentator say that. On the show I risked PAUSER and nearly risked PARISHER, which are both wrong. I didn't know TRAINFUL was even valid in Scrabble, thanks David, that's one I'll have to play someday.

Clare Sudbery wrote:I risked 'FELATED' in the audition.

Co-incidentally, I also got 'FELLATED' in my audition. On the downside, it completely put me off for the rest of the test so I didn't pass

Martin Smith wrote:I declared 'cambering' for one of the Conundrums (Conundrae?) at my audition

Are you suggesting it was disallowed? It shouldn't have been: camber is a verb as well as a noun.

Phil Reynolds wrote:

Martin Smith wrote:I declared 'cambering' for one of the Conundrums (Conundrae?) at my audition

Are you suggesting it was disallowed? It shouldn't have been: camber is a verb as well as a noun.

Not in the ODE2r it bloody isn't.

Chris Corby wrote:

Clare Sudbery wrote:I risked 'FELATED' in the audition.

Co-incidentally, I also got 'FELLATED' in my audition. On the downside, it completely put me off for the rest of the test so I didn't pass

(That's better than the ones I'd come up with so far!)

Phil Reynolds wrote:camber is a verb as well as a noun.

Not in the ODE.

Edit: ninjaed.

Jon Corby wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:camber is a verb as well as a noun.

Not in the ODE2r it bloody isn't.

One of countless lonely furrows the ODE seems determined to plough. My Collins English Dictionary, and three online dictionaries I just checked at random, all list it as a verb.

Phil Reynolds wrote: One of countless lonely furrows the ODE seems determined to plough. My Collins English Dictionary, and three online dictionaries I just checked at random, all list it as a verb.

I think most print dictionaries plough about the same number of lonely furrows, it's just an artefact of the statistical approach they use. I agree that CAMBERING should probably be allowed, but online dictionaries are crap for this sort of question, since they have no space constraint and therefore just include everything, usually just lifting all the entries from some existing dictionary.

Charlie Reams wrote:I think most print dictionaries plough about the same number of lonely furrows, it's just an artefact of the statistical approach they use.

Good point. I think I've been biased against the OED for about 30 years, since I found out that it prefers the -ize ending in words like realise etc. (Which in turn I discovered through the classic note in the UNIX Programmer's Manual about the -b (British spelling) option to spell: "this option insists upon -ise in words like standardise, Fowler and the OED to the contrary notwithstanding".)

This thread gives me the impression that the audition selections are carefully chosen to offer obvious 9-letter words that will nonetheless be disallowed.
Is that true?
Would you be able to tell us if it were?
And if it is or could be true, are they especially looking for cautious or slaphappy contestants?

Rosemary Roberts wrote:This thread gives me the impression that the audition selections are carefully chosen to offer obvious 9-letter words that will nonetheless be disallowed.
Is that true?
Would you be able to tell us if it were?
And if it is or could be true, are they especially looking for cautious or slaphappy contestants?

Not sure who you're addressing; I believe Damian constructs the auditions and he no longer comes here. But it seems unlikely to me that he'd attempt some sort of trick like that. It's hard enough to get contestants who can actually play the rounds decently, without some kind of Machiavellian personality test. More likely it just didn't occur to him that EMBRACING has a plausible-looking anagram.

I believe the audition rounds are actually constructed to have various layers such as some easy 6s, decent 7s, good 8s and hard 9s. I'm always a bit suspicious of this approach because that sort of round is a lot easier for people who know to expect it, and aren't necessarily a good test for the rounds you get on the show. Example from the puzzle book: if you faced something as awkward as HHNEOOOPM on the program, you'd be happy to find a 6, but if you know the round was hand-crafted then you look for something more ambitious and the 9 is not that hard to see.

I seem to be mumbling on about something totally unrelated now so I'll shut up.

Charlie Reams wrote:I seem to be mumbling on about something totally unrelated now so I'll shut up.

No, that is roughly what I wanted to know. It does seem risky to use other than random selections for auditions because anybody who knows what to expect will get an advantage. But I'm never likely to get there because I don't live in the UK.

Chris Corby wrote:

Clare Sudbery wrote:I risked 'FELATED' in the audition.

Co-incidentally, I also got 'FELLATED' in my audition. On the downside, it completely put me off for the rest of the test so I didn't pass

Maybe they were checking to see if you were circumflexed.

I soooo wanted to declare POOTED in my game. I know it's not in the dictionary and I've seen it turned down before and since. But I know the definition for it - as every child who went on a school biology field trip would do. And as my opponent had beaten me anyway with ADOPTEE, I should have gone with it and made a stand for getting it into the dictionary. Instead, I panicked , enough so to make me go momentarily dunderheaded and declared the non existant DOATED despite there only being one D in the selection!!! Duh.

Sue Sanders wrote:I soooo wanted to declare POOTED in my game. I know it's not in the dictionary and I've seen it turned down before and since. But I know the definition for it - as every child who went on a school biology field trip would do. And as my opponent had beaten me anyway with ADOPTEE, I should have gone with it and made a stand for getting it into the dictionary. Instead, I panicked , enough so to make me go momentarily dunderheaded and declared the non existant DOATED despite there only being one D in the selection!!! Duh.

I of course DID declare POOTED in my 2nd game, although I only did since my opponent Louise, declared "a dodgy six", so I thought, "at least I won't lose ground", because it seemed like that was going to be the only logical six there could have been in that game. It didn't work obviously

Having said that, I looked up my copy of the "Countdown Dictionary" that I bought just before my first appearance in 2003 and it says POOTED and the other words that go with it like POOT, POOTER and POOTING were all valid words. So, it shows how much the dictionary has changed since then.

Charlie Reams wrote:
BIOFUELS: was worried that it might be hyphenated, or just not in. Still annoys me, because this was one of my best spots and it got completely edited out.

Prove it.

James Robinson wrote:

Sue Sanders wrote:I soooo wanted to declare POOTED in my game. I know it's not in the dictionary and I've seen it turned down before and since. But I know the definition for it - as every child who went on a school biology field trip would do. And as my opponent had beaten me anyway with ADOPTEE, I should have gone with it and made a stand for getting it into the dictionary. Instead, I panicked , enough so to make me go momentarily dunderheaded and declared the non existant DOATED despite there only being one D in the selection!!! Duh.

I of course DID declare POOTED in my 2nd game, although I only did since my opponent Louise, declared "a dodgy six", so I thought, "at least I won't lose ground", because it seemed like that was going to be the only logical six there could have been in that game. It didn't work obviously

Having said that, I looked up my copy of the "Countdown Dictionary" that I bought just before my first appearance in 2003 and it says POOTED and the other words that go with it like POOT, POOTER and POOTING were all valid words. So, it shows how much the dictionary has changed since then.

Perhaps it's because Health and Safety just won't let kids suck up random insects in a glass tube anymore.