c4countdown

Not altogether unexpected but sad to see that Howard Marks has died, just as recent polling shows that support for the legalisation of cannabis is gaining some real traction.

His autobiography's very good from what I remember (it's years since I read it but might revisit it now).

Smoked with him once after he'd visited uni to break attendance records at the Debating Society arguing for Cannabis legalisation. Really lovely guy.

Matt Morrison wrote:Smoked with him once after he'd visited uni to break attendance records at the Debating Society arguing for Cannabis legalisation. Really lovely guy.

What - so you needed one more person to break the attendance record, and he came in specially? What a guy.

Can just imagine the journalist writing this article trying to stifle his laughter at the irony:

BBC jounralist wrote:Entertainer, producer and reality television star David Gest has died in a London hotel aged 62, a statement from his friend says.

He had planned to tour the UK in July with his latest show, called the David Gest Is Not Dead But Alive With Soul Tour!.

I knew he was on reality telly, but I never knew he fitted the first two descriptors.

Linda McCartney. I know you're probably thinking that she's already dead, but her range of vegetarian food still exists. And after being the standard by which all vegetarian sausages are judged, they've now changed the recipe of their sausages, and they're awful! It's like she's died a second time!

Victoria Wood, Prince, the Queen* - this year is the death equivalent of a series of Countdown with nine octochamps. I'd like to see the seedings.

*She was in the news but I wasn't paying attention - I presume she's died?

I'm going to compile a list:

David Bowie
Alan Rickman
Terry Wogan
Paul Daniels
Ronnie Corbett
Victoria Wood
Prince

That's seven octochamps already this year, so it seems likely that at least some won't even make the top eight.

I can't believe Brucie has outlived them all

Looking at Facebook, I'm amazed by how much people care about celebrity deaths. Like they're members of their own family. "Fuck off 2016" etc. Seriously?

I blame this thread.

Ian Volante wrote:I blame this thread.

Me too. It's all Gevin's fault for starting it.

Prince though? I didn't see that coming; even though I'd heard that he was taken ill last week, I thought it was just flu or something similarly non life-threatening. And before I got the chance to see him in one of his insanely long concerts, too. Bugger.

For me, his is the biggest celebrity death of the year (despite his being so small in stature in life)¹ and my fingers are firmly crossed that it'll remain so.

I honestly can't think of anyone else's death having that much impact this year², so people can stop dying now, please. Please? It's getting to be a bit of a buzzkill.


¹ Well, Paul Daniels, Ronnie Corbett and Prince were all unusually short in real life. I hope Paul Simon's in good health.

² Or any other year for that matter³

³ Personal opinion only. You may have differing views. This does not affect your statutory rights.

Gavin Chipper wrote:Looking at Facebook, I'm amazed by how much people care about celebrity deaths. Like they're members of their own family. "Fuck off 2016" etc. Seriously?

I agree. I'm a fan of all the 7 octochamps you mentioned to varying degrees, but I feel absolutely nothing for them.

The only celebrity deaths I can remember actually making me feel anything were:

- Richard Whiteley
- Michael Jackson
- Amy Winehouse
- Robin Williams

But none of them enough to have an emotional outpouring on Facebook. Although I think my threshold of emotion felt before I have an outpouring on Facebook is probably a lot higher than the people you're on about Gev. In fact, that probably answers your question. Some people have a meltdown over running out of Ketchup. Celebrity grief is mild by comparison.

Jon O'Neill wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:Looking at Facebook, I'm amazed by how much people care about celebrity deaths. Like they're members of their own family. "Fuck off 2016" etc. Seriously?

I agree. I'm a fan of all the 7 octochamps you mentioned to varying degrees, but I feel absolutely nothing for them.

The only celebrity deaths I can remember actually making me feel anything were:

- Richard Whiteley
- Michael Jackson
- Amy Winehouse
- Robin Williams

But none of them enough to have an emotional outpouring on Facebook. Although I think my threshold of emotion felt before I have an outpouring on Facebook is probably a lot higher than the people you're on about Gev. In fact, that probably answers your question. Some people have a meltdown over running out of Ketchup. Celebrity grief is mild by comparison.

For me, the biggest celebrity death was Ayrton Senna. It's still weird to think that he actually died. I mean - what? Ayrton fucking Senna is dead? You've got to be kidding, right?

Although my first news memory is probably of the death of John Lennon, I only really appreciate the magnitude of that in hindsight. Bowie is pretty much certainly the one that's affected me the most, although I might be forgetting someone obvious from the last thirty years or so.

Deaths that most shocked me :
Lord Mountbatten
Princess Diana
John Belushi
River Phoenix

Beyonce's gotta be up there. She is basically this generation's Prince.

She plays all her own instruments then.


She's more this generations Diana Ross

Eh. Creativity and talent aren't limited or defined by the instruments played. She's a tremendous talent and a creative force. It's just different types of creativity and talent to his.

Mark Deeks wrote:Beyonce's gotta be up there. She is basically this generation's Prince.

She may be, but that's more of a damming indictment on this generation than in anyway praise for Beyonce. I'm seriously disappointed with this generation if she's the best it can do.

Mark Deeks wrote:Eh. Creativity and talent aren't limited or defined by the instruments played. She's a tremendous talent and a creative force. It's just different types of creativity and talent to his.

She's a tremendous businesswoman, that's for sure, and I think Marc's comparison with Diana Ross is pretty much spot-on.

JimBentley wrote:

Mark Deeks wrote:Eh. Creativity and talent aren't limited or defined by the instruments played. She's a tremendous talent and a creative force. It's just different types of creativity and talent to his.

She's a tremendous businesswoman, that's for sure, and I think Marc's comparison with Diana Ross is pretty much spot-on.

Of course it's a lot easier to be a good businesswoman when you already have money and contacts.

JimBentley wrote:

Mark Deeks wrote:Eh. Creativity and talent aren't limited or defined by the instruments played. She's a tremendous talent and a creative force. It's just different types of creativity and talent to his.

She's a tremendous businesswoman, that's for sure, and I think Marc's comparison with Diana Ross is pretty much spot-on.

Maybe a hybrid, but you know how Prince was basically the coolest man on the planet? Beyonce's the coolest woman, if not the coolest person, and that's quite the talent. This cannot be said for Diana Ross.

Totally in agreement with Mark (D) on all of this. Whatever you think of her music, she's indisputably one of the most influential and innovative figures in pop culture.

Jennifer Steadman wrote:Totally in agreement with Mark (D) on all of this. Whatever you think of her music, she's indisputably one of the most influential and innovative figures in pop culture.

I do like Beyonce and I think she's released some released some great pop tunes over the years but influential? Innovative? I think you'll have to justify those a little more.

JimBentley wrote:

Jennifer Steadman wrote:Totally in agreement with Mark (D) on all of this. Whatever you think of her music, she's indisputably one of the most influential and innovative figures in pop culture.

I do like Beyonce and I think she's released some released some great pop tunes over the years but influential? Innovative? I think you'll have to justify those a little more.

Influential: The more politicised Beyonce gets, the more people engage with the ideas she's putting forward. So her recent lyrics and visual imagery/symbolism have largely been about race and gender (Formation, for example). The videos or songs start trending, commentators for major news outlets write about and explain the symbolism, fans read them, fans are more informed. Then people like Piers Morgan weigh in with thinkpieces about those topics that completely miss the point, those articles start trending, people beyond her fanbase/curious onlookers are exposed to them, leading to even more people engaging with the ideas she's putting forward.

A couple of topics that she's touched on either lyrically or visually (and has educated me and many others on); racial oppression, feminism, miscarriage, police brutality, the Black Panther Party. Although she's not the only black woman to sing about these topics, she has by far the largest platform on which to showcase them.

Innovative: She eschewed promotion entirely for her self-titled album, just releasing it with no prior warning, which is pretty ballsy (and it paid off; it sold over half a million copies in 2 days). I mean, think about how much most artists fork out to advertise their new albums for weeks and months in advance. Since then, it's become a trend.

Additionally, she's really brought the idea of the 'visual album' into the public consciousness. Other 'visual albums' must exist (studio albums, not live albums), but I don't know of any, and unless I'm being really thick, none of them will have had the impact of self-titled or Lemonade. Bjork's Biophilia app is the closest thing I can think of.

This makes me sound like an insane Beyonce fan who spends hours researching her. That's not the case! While I'm a fan, I certainly don't actively seek out information on her lyrics - I only click what comes up. But a LOT comes up, and that's a testament to her influence.

Jennifer Steadman wrote:Totally in agreement with Mark (D) on all of this. Whatever you think of her music, she's indisputably one of the most influential and innovative figures in pop culture.

Even if she is that's still an indictment on the culture. Look, Crazy in Love was a monster tune and I enjoyed it. Single Ladies I didn't get it at all. Now, you know how you can know stuff that you don't wanna know because it's pop culture, well they're the only two songs of hers I can name apart from her Destiny's Child stuff and the one she did with Lady Gaga (who kicks her ass musically by the way).I can name way more Rihanna songs. Hell I could probably name more Susan Boyle songs. She's famous for being famous at this stage and to compare her with Prince is ridiculous.

Edit: Sorry, I should say yeah, you can compare her with Prince in that her death would be a big deal to pop culture, but musically no chance.

Mark James wrote:Even if she is that's still an indictment on the culture. Look, Crazy in Love was a monster tune and I enjoyed it. Single Ladies I didn't get it at all. Now, you know how you can know stuff that you don't wanna know because it's pop culture, well they're the only two songs of hers I can name apart from her Destiny's Child stuff and the one she did with Lady Gaga (who kicks her ass musically by the way).I can name way more Rihanna songs. Hell I could probably name more Susan Boyle songs. She's famous for being famous at this stage and to compare her with Prince is ridiculous.

Edit: Sorry, I should say yeah, you can compare her with Prince in that her death would be a big deal to pop culture, but musically no chance.

Stupid line of reasoning. I can practically name more Susan Boyle songs than I can name Prince songs. That doesn't mean he wasn't an inspiration as a musician, performer or figurehead to millions around the world, or that I would deny that he is. Exactly the same with Beyonce. While I'd say she should have silenced any doubters with her last album (great production, much more creative, focused and mature than previous albums), even if you have no respect for her music, what she stands for - especially as she becomes more politicised - is undeniably influential, as explained to Jim upthread. She's an enormous and probably unparalleled role model and influence for black women, in particular, across the globe.

This is getting away from what other Mark was saying now, but remains relevant that if she died, it would be bigger news than pretty much any other pop culture figure under the age of 50, and that doesn't mean that modern culture is wrong (watch you don't burn yourself on that hot take).

Jennifer Steadman wrote:Influential: The more politicised Beyonce gets, the more people engage with the ideas she's putting forward...

Jennifer Steadman wrote:Innovative: She eschewed promotion entirely for her self-titled album, just releasing it with no prior warning...

Jennifer Steadman wrote:Additionally, she's really brought the idea of the 'visual album' into the public consciousness...

It's interesting that everything you mention isn't really connected to the music she releases; these are all calculated commercial decisions that may or may not enhance her sales. I know that the entire landscape of popular music has changed in the last twenty or so years, but I kind of meant "influential" in terms of the extent her music has influence going forward. As I said, tremendous businesswoman.

JimBentley wrote:It's interesting that everything you mention isn't really connected to the music she releases; these are all calculated commercial decisions that may or may not enhance her sales. I know that the entire landscape of popular music has changed in the last twenty or so years, but I kind of meant "influential" in terms of the extent her music has influence going forward. As I said, tremendous businesswoman.

TBH, it's hard to tell how influential she's been musically compared to Prince, given that her most creative output (and the output which I think she's had the most autonomy over) has only been released in the last 3 years. If we had the same benefit of hindsight as with Prince, then it would be far easier to tell. For all we know, the big stars of the future are kids currently looking up to her the way that 70s kids looked up to Bowie, 80s kids looked up to Prince or Madonna, etc.

I'm not sure her politicisation is necessarily a commercial decision, though. If anything, it's already having that platform of huge commercial success set up that has empowered her to take more risks and broach issues like racism and sexism, especially since she's become a mother. It might get people talking more than your previous albums did, but it's definitely not guaranteed to sell more copies.

Jennifer Steadman wrote:TBH, it's hard to tell how influential she's been musically compared to Prince, given that her most creative output (and the output which I think she's had the most autonomy over) has only been released in the last 3 years. If we had the same benefit of hindsight as with Prince, then it would be far easier to tell. For all we know, the big stars of the future are kids currently looking up to her the way that 70s kids looked up to Bowie, 80s kids looked up to Prince or Madonna, etc.

I don't think that Beyonce has ever had autonomy over any of her songs, as that would mean that she did everything. Whilst I don't think she's as reliant on the usual suspects in terms of writers and producers, she doesn't put much out (that I can find) under a sole songwriter credit. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just puts her into a different place to Prince.

Jennifer Steadman wrote:I'm not sure her politicisation is necessarily a commercial decision, though. If anything, it's already having that platform of huge commercial success set up that has empowered her to take more risks and broach issues like racism and sexism, especially since she's become a mother. It might get people talking more than your previous albums did, but it's definitely not guaranteed to sell more copies.

I do actually think that Beyonce's apparent increasing espousing of racial and sexual politics is a deliberate commercial decision on her part (or on the part of those advising her career) and one that I personally think will lead to increased sales. But again, this is more a part of her being an influential figure in her field, and very little to do with the music. This is sort of what I'm trying to get at, really; I'm not arguing that she'll not be remembered in the future, as she undoubtedly will, but not for the same reasons that Prince will.

In the context of this thread, Beyonces death would be bigger and more shocking, but musically she couldnt lace The Purple ones size 4s

I'd like to point out that David Bowie did the unannounced release thing about nine months earlier. As for her influence? Give it another ten years for a better assessment. Musically, hmm. In genre context, certainly highly influential. On the wider music scene? Not sure. I suppose it helps Prince's legacy that he was with his own skill, moulding three or four(ish) genres together right from his earliest output.

I'll say one thing for Beyonce. She hasn't even died and she's taken all the attention away from Grange Hill's Mark Farmer and Hi-Di-Hi's Barry Howard.

Many of you will probably have noticed that the BBC new stories of people who have died within the last few years often re-emerge in the top 10 most read stories list, and these deaths then get reported on places like Facebook and Twitter as if they have just happened. Presumably this is a result of a concerted effort by people to "trick" other people. Tony Hart has died a few times, and we've also had Bob Hoskins dying again recently.

I was actually caught out by this myself. I don't know how it happened, but I completely missed the news when Shakespeare died - maybe I was on holiday or something. But then just a couple of weeks ago it found its way back into the news again, so I reported it on Facebook like "OMG! Shakespeare has just died!" and then it turned out that he'd been dead for ages. I felt so stupid.

Gavin Chipper wrote:I'm going to compile a list:

David Bowie
Alan Rickman
Terry Wogan
Paul Daniels
Ronnie Corbett
Victoria Wood
Prince

That's seven octochamps already this year, so it seems likely that at least some won't even make the top eight.

Muhammad Ali makes 8 octochamps this year already and we're not even halfway yet! Any more and people are going to go home without making the quarter finals!

the Greatest...RIP Nuff said.....close the thread

Marc Meakin wrote:the Greatest...RIP Nuff said.....close the thread

It has set a precedent, certainly, but we're only halfway through the year. Ali will have been trumped by somebody else before the year is out, you mark my words.

JimBentley wrote:

Marc Meakin wrote:the Greatest...RIP Nuff said.....close the thread

It has set a precedent, certainly, but we're only halfway through the year. Ali will have been trumped by somebody else before the year is out, you mark my words.

Is that a veiled way of saying you think Donald Trump is about to die? Cos that would be a massive death at this point, certainly.

Mark Deeks wrote:

JimBentley wrote:

Marc Meakin wrote:the Greatest...RIP Nuff said.....close the thread

It has set a precedent, certainly, but we're only halfway through the year. Ali will have been trumped by somebody else before the year is out, you mark my words.

Is that a veiled way of saying you think Donald Trump is about to die? Cos that would be a massive death at this point, certainly.

Would Hillary not be bigger?

Considering Trump's domination of the media right now, probably not.

Maybe Bobby Charlton.......Jose is bound to give him a heart attack by Christmas

By the way, it seems that quite a few people were upset by the Sun's headline of "Float like a butterfly, sting like RIP". Really? Get over yourselves.

I agree. I mean, it's forced and pointless crap, but not offensively crap, surely.

Mark Deeks wrote:I agree. I mean, it's forced and pointless crap, but not offensively crap, surely.

Only to people who can actually write good headlines.

Gavin Chipper wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:I'm going to compile a list:

David Bowie
Alan Rickman
Terry Wogan
Paul Daniels
Ronnie Corbett
Victoria Wood
Prince

That's seven octochamps already this year, so it seems likely that at least some won't even make the top eight.

Muhammad Ali makes 8 octochamps this year already and we're not even halfway yet! Any more and people are going to go home without making the quarter finals!

While there have been a number of deaths since this post (including Caroline Aherne, Mrs Mangel and Postman Pat), unless I've forgotten anyone, I think the top eight has remained the same since Ali's death on 3rd June. So we haven't had to get into an argument about which seed would be ousted from the quarter finals.

Harmonica player on Sesame Street has just died

Gavin Chipper wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:I'm going to compile a list:

David Bowie
Alan Rickman
Terry Wogan
Paul Daniels
Ronnie Corbett
Victoria Wood
Prince

That's seven octochamps already this year, so it seems likely that at least some won't even make the top eight.

Muhammad Ali makes 8 octochamps this year already and we're not even halfway yet! Any more and people are going to go home without making the quarter finals!

After that mass of deaths in the first half of the year, we've now had our first octochamp from the second half of the year in Fidel Castro. That makes nine. So who of this lot would we chuck out of the hypothetical quarter finals? It could be Alan Rickman. I know he's a big film star, but unless people have seen the right films, they won't be as familiar with him as people who have been on television week in, week out over years. Film actors are generally overstated in the media in terms of their objective level of fame (see Heath Ledger). Other than that, I think it would have to be Victoria Wood.

As it's the second half of the year, Castro is perhaps the first octochamp of a new series. And he's looking like the favourite in a much weaker series.

I'd also have Alan Rickman comfortably ahead of Victoria Wood. He might even only be behind Ali, Bowie and Prince. He was much more famous internationally than the others. And some of them were much less active in later years compared to Rickman, meaning they might not even be so recognizable within the UK, especially among younger people.

Conor wrote:I'd also have Alan Rickman comfortably ahead of Victoria Wood. He might even only be behind Ali, Bowie and Prince. He was much more famous internationally than the others. And some of them were much less active in later years compared to Rickman, meaning they might not even be so recognizable within the UK, especially among younger people.

Totally agree with this.

But do you both think Wood was less well-known than Daniels? I was totally unfamiliar with their work, but I could at least confidently say what she did and name a few programmes she was involved with. With him, uh... magician guy who was married to someone called Debbie? Was he on TV? I have no idea.

Jennifer Steadman wrote:

Conor wrote:I'd also have Alan Rickman comfortably ahead of Victoria Wood. He might even only be behind Ali, Bowie and Prince. He was much more famous internationally than the others. And some of them were much less active in later years compared to Rickman, meaning they might not even be so recognizable within the UK, especially among younger people.

Totally agree with this.

But do you both think Wood was less well-known than Daniels? I was totally unfamiliar with their work, but I could at least confidently say what she did and name a few programmes she was involved with. With him, uh... magician guy who was married to someone called Debbie? Was he on TV? I have no idea.

I suppose it's partly a generational thing. I used to watch Paul Daniels loads when I was growing up. He was also *the* magician. Derren Brown is probably the main magician now, but not in the same way that Paul Daniels had a virtual monopoly on magician fame. I also haven't seen much of Victoria Wood - not because of any generational reason, but I just happened not to watch many of her programmes.

Generally with this, I've been looking at fame from a UK perspective. If some top baseball player from America died, there's no way I'd include him. Not that Rickman was American, but I've been looking at fame within the UK, rather than in the world generally. (Feel free to set your own criteria though.)

But it is generally quite difficult to judge fame objectively without your own personal biases. This book is quite interesting by the way in the way it tries to objectively rank historical figures, but it's not perfect, and it would be even harder if you wanted a UK filter (not only British people - that wouldn't be too hard - but fame among British people).

But also, if we're talking about fame among younger people, Ali, Prince and Bowie might also suffer. Maybe less Ali, but I really didn't hear that much about Bowie and Prince in the media for years before their death. I know young people often seek out music, but not everyone does to the same extent, and I imagine it would be quite easy to have barely heard of them.

But, in conclusion, there's no way I'd kick Paul Daniels out of my eight.

But then again, how famous is Fidel Castro? Was everyone aware of him? People who take no interest in these things might not know much or anything about him at all.

But obviously limiting to eight is arbitrary, and I'd say that these are clearly the top nine deaths of the year.

There is still 5 weeks left for a few more biggies to die like Phil the Greek, Brucie and Kirk Douglas

And david attenborough!

Right, I've been to this site to see what it thinks. It has different categories, but I'll look at fame and significance rankings. I've ordered them by fame, but put significance afterwards.

1. Fidel Castro - 51; 506
2. David Bowie - 92; 829
3. Prince - 123; 1308
4. Muhammad Ali - 160; 612
5. Terry Wogan - 1751; 7149
6. Alan Rickman - 2794; 13,256
7. Ronnie Corbett - 10,006; 14,648
8. Victoria Wood - 10,893; 36255
9. Paul Daniels - 11,966; 17,698

Fidel Castro is top in both lists. Paul Daniels is the "least famous", but it's close between him, Victoria Wood and Ronnie Corbett. Victoria Wood is the "least significant".

Gavin Chipper wrote:But also, if we're talking about fame among younger people, Ali, Prince and Bowie might also suffer. Maybe less Ali, but I really didn't hear that much about Bowie and Prince in the media for years before their death. I know young people often seek out music, but not everyone does to the same extent, and I imagine it would be quite easy to have barely heard of them.

I think you're right that it's a generational thing which relates largely to when their cultural impact point was, because huge cultural shifts tend to become normalised (and, eventually, outdated) over time.

So: Ali and Prince's cultural impact points preceded my generation, so - for me at least - it's quite hard now to understand why they were such a big deal, Ali in particular. Conversely, it might be difficult for older people to understand why Rickman's loss was felt quite strongly by people my age (largely because of his perfect portrayal of a central character in the Harry Potter films. You can't underplay the ubiquity of Harry Potter).

I'd say 'we' (in inverted commas because I am not the voice of my generation and my friends are almost entirely drawn from a very specific demographic...) were most affected by Rickman and Bowie judging by number of social media tributes and suchlike. Bowie's an interesting one because his cultural impact point obviously preceded us by decades - and you're right that he hadn't been in the news much prior to his death - but his music/image legacies were pretty timeless. That said, I imagine someone brought up on R&B might feel the same way about Prince that I do about Bowie, so it's at least partly down to individual reference points.

Castro... I'd imagine most have heard of him and would know who he was? But who knows. He's probably less well-known than Che is because Che is on all the t-shirts/stickers/posters of 16-year-olds from Surrey who want to upset their parents.

Unrelatedly, I had a dream the other night that Alan Rickman kidnapped me and my friend and held us hostage in his rubbish penthouse flat - after my friend's botched escape attempt he decided to kill her and was gloating about it, so before he could do it, I snapped his glasses in half (the snapped bits were razor sharp) and violently stabbed him with them multiple times in the eyeballs and the cock. Probably would have done more horrible stuff to him had I not woken up.

Jennifer Steadman wrote:magician guy who was married to someone called Debbie? Was he on TV? I have no idea.

You're lucky to have missed out - for a long time it seemed he was never off the TV.

I remember watching him die horribly on TV at Silverstone after being hit by a car driven by Jackie Stewart in a magic stunt gone wrong. Tragically it all turned out to just be a prank being played on presenter Mike Smith to see his reaction.

Trump would definitely be the biggest death right now.

Jennifer Steadman wrote:So: Ali and Prince's cultural impact points preceded my generation, so - for me at least - it's quite hard now to understand why they were such a big deal, Ali in particular. Conversely, it might be difficult for older people to understand why Rickman's loss was felt quite strongly by people my age (largely because of his perfect portrayal of a central character in the Harry Potter films. You can't underplay the ubiquity of Harry Potter).

I have to assume you are saying that Ali's death wasn't exactly a shock. You cannot seriously be suggesting that Rickman's life made a greater impact than possibly the most famous person on the planet.

David Williams wrote:

Jennifer Steadman wrote:So: Ali and Prince's cultural impact points preceded my generation, so - for me at least - it's quite hard now to understand why they were such a big deal, Ali in particular. Conversely, it might be difficult for older people to understand why Rickman's loss was felt quite strongly by people my age (largely because of his perfect portrayal of a central character in the Harry Potter films. You can't underplay the ubiquity of Harry Potter).

I have to assume you are saying that Ali's death wasn't exactly a shock. You cannot seriously be suggesting that Rickman's life made a greater impact than possibly the most famous person on the planet.

You've so badly misread my post that I don't know you came to that conclusion. It's made clear at every juncture that I'm assessing impacts on age-grouped subsets, not the overall impact on the population or whether the impact is justified by the individual's legacy. But, in case you really can't see that, I'll try and explain further:

Rickman is more culturally relevant to people my age. For a huge number of us, there's some emotional investment in Harry Potter, amplified by its ubiquity in childhood. By proxy, there's also some investment in Rickman, one of the most recognisable actors in the series, who embodied the vivid literary character he was playing (probably moreso than any of the other actors). So for people of a certain age, his death would largely have had more resonance than Ali's, because we haven't lived through Ali's heyday. I recognise Ali's fame (although don't understand it) - others will have researched him and have a good understanding of his popularity and legacy. But as we've not lived through his peak, we've missed out on the unique emotional investment that can develop from having lived through something influential: watching it live, reading about it contemporaneously, water cooler chats, etc.

Vice versa, Ali is more culturally relevant to people of another generation, or other generations. They may also have an investment in Alan Rickman and/or Harry Potter, but it's almost certainly less culturally relevant to them as they're not the intended audience and I'd argue that childhood pop culture crazes are generally more powerful than adulthood ones.

So no, there was no attempt to rank them in order of overall perception/legacy. I obviously can't do that because I know nothing about one of them.