c4countdown

Just watching an old series of countdown and dictionary corner was discussing whether ravioli could be pluaralised, deciding that it couldn't be becaus it was already plural. The plural isn't allowed on apterous. Would it be allowed on countdown under the restaurant rule, since you can have two ravioli dishes?

I think the "restaurant rule" only applies to mass nouns as opposed to plural nouns. So for example, two lasagnes, two lagers, two waters.

I've just looked it up, and it now gives RAVIOLI as a plural noun. It must have been listed as a mass noun in the dictionary that Countdown used at the time.

So now, if they allow RAVIOLIS, then I guess that they would have to allow CHIPSES? Or does it make a difference whether it's listed as a plural noun or merely the plural of a regular count noun?

Ravioli (like spaghetti, panini, broccoli) is singular in English though. SPAGHETTI is also listed as a plural noun but "Can I have two spaghetti, please" sounds strange to me.

Dan McColm wrote:Ravioli (like spaghetti, panini, broccoli) is singular in English though. SPAGHETTI is also listed as a plural noun but "Can I have two spaghetti, please" sounds strange to me.

But surely it's about whether it's listed as a singular or plural noun, not how we use it. The dictionary is supposed to be the arbiter. Whether the dictionary is any good at describing English as we use it is another matter.

Slow news day

Gavin Chipper wrote:

Dan McColm wrote:Ravioli (like spaghetti, panini, broccoli) is singular in English though. SPAGHETTI is also listed as a plural noun but "Can I have two spaghetti, please" sounds strange to me.

But surely it's about whether it's listed as a singular or plural noun, not how we use it. The dictionary is supposed to be the arbiter. Whether the dictionary is any good at describing English as we use it is another matter.

I agree, if the dictionary says it's a plural noun then for Countdown purposes we have to treat it as such - the editors of the dictionary have made a poor decision in these Italian plural noun decisions though.

As if to demonstrate that I definitely have a life and do not need to get out more, I have been looking at the ODO entries for various shapes of pasta.

Most that I have found are categorised as plural nouns only: bucatini, capellini, conchiglie, farfalle, fettuccine, linguine, orecchiette, penne, ravioli, rigatoni, spaghetti, tagliatelle, tortelli, vermicelli.

So far, so simple (although the plural noun categorisation does seem bizarre in the light of everyday usage).

But what have we here?

cannelloni
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... cannelloni (plural noun for the pasta shapes, mass noun for the dish made using those shapes).

lasagne
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/lasagne (plural noun for the pasta shapes, mass noun for the dish made using those shapes; an additional complication is that the Italian singular form, lasagna, is given as an alternative to lasagne, the Italian plural).

macaroni
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/macaroni (noun, with plural given as macaronies, rather than macaronis).

tortellini
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... tortellini (noun - seems odd, given that tortelli is categorised as a plural noun, see above).

Confused? Hungry? Me too...

Somebody told me once that penne pasta was so called because of the Italian word for penis. I looked it up and found that it wasn't true, but let's go with it since it's vaguely phallic. Which pasta shape most resembles a vagina? I offer conchiglie but accept that my knowledge of pasta shapes isn't extensive.

Lady garden-shaped pasta already seems to exist, called "fichette" (literally, little figs). Of pasta shapes found in most supermarkets, conchiglie seems a decent shout. Conchiglie rigate (ribbed for his/her pleasure), conchigliette (small) and conchiglione (large) also exist - I swear I am not making this up.

Heather Styles wrote: conchigliette (small)

That's just sick, frankly Heather.

Jon Corby wrote:

Heather Styles wrote: conchigliette (small)

That's just sick, frankly Heather.

Conchigliette sounds like you'd describe a hairy one rather than a small one.

Jon Corby wrote:Somebody told me once that penne pasta was so called because of the Italian word for penis. I looked it up and found that it wasn't true, but let's go with it since it's vaguely phallic. Which pasta shape most resembles a vagina? I offer conchiglie but accept that my knowledge of pasta shapes isn't extensive.

That sounds like a garbled version of what I've heard, that English-speakers often pronounce penne wrongly, so end up asking for penis rather than what they're more likely to be looking for. A good way to end up with the wrong sort of carbonara.

There's also pennette (little quills) and pennoni (large quills), so all is fair. I didn't make the Italian pasta rules.

Is the selection in round 3 here the only selection from which it has ever been possible to make a 9 by moving just one letter?

Johnny Canuck wrote:Is the selection in round 3 here the only selection from which it has ever been possible to make a 9 by moving just one letter?

Dunno, but why are you asking it in the vagina pasta thread?

Johnny Canuck wrote:Is the selection in round 3 here the only selection from which it has ever been possible to make a 9 by moving just one letter?

That was five letters. /pedantry

Thought I had wandered into Ask Graeme. Oopsie.