c4countdown

In that second zero game, why was PREDATED disallowed?

Ian Volante wrote:In that second zero game, why was PREDATED disallowed?

Because it wasn't in the dictionary of the time. PREDATE as a verb is a back formation from PREDATION and took some time to get a foothold in the language.

You might say it pre-dated the dictionary.

Ho ho ho!!!

Jon O'Neill wrote:You might say it pre-dated the dictionary.

Ho ho ho!!!

You'd be instantly banned if you said that.

I very much doubt that, given the access you allow to some of the more recent undesirables. Ban everyone except me.

Charlie Reams wrote:

Ian Volante wrote:In that second zero game, why was PREDATED disallowed?

Because it wasn't in the dictionary of the time. PREDATE as a verb is a back formation from PREDATION and took some time to get a foothold in the language.

But PREDATE (meaning to assign an earlier date to) isn't a back formation and surely that's been around for a while?

Phil Reynolds wrote:But PREDATE (meaning to assign an earlier date to) isn't a back formation and surely that's been around for a while?

That's PRE-DATE. Yes, the ODE is a strange beast.

Hmm, fascinating.

Charlie Reams wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:But PREDATE (meaning to assign an earlier date to) isn't a back formation and surely that's been around for a while?

That's PRE-DATE. Yes, the ODE is a strange beast.

So the ODE (which supposedly reflects widely accepted English usage) spells it differently to how everyone else spells it (including other dictionaries)? A strange beast indeed...

Damian E wrote:I very much doubt that, given the access you allow to some of the more recent undesirables. Ban everyone except me.

Haha, did you tone this down yourself Damian, or did one of the mods do it?

Even I thought it looked a little harsh for a "Welcome" thread!

Jon Corby wrote:

Damian E wrote:I very much doubt that, given the access you allow to some of the more recent undesirables. Ban everyone except me.

Haha, did you tone this down yourself Damian, or did one of the mods do it?

Even I thought it looked a little harsh for a "Welcome" thread!

Must've been a mod or you get the little "Damian edited this post" note at the bottom. But it wasn't me and we don't have any particular policy against saying "Fuck", "Wanker" or indeed "cum" so I don't know who edited it or why.

[PS This discussion has been spun off into its own thread now anyway.]

Phil Reynolds wrote:So the ODE (which supposedly reflects widely accepted English usage) spells it differently to how everyone else spells it (including other dictionaries)?

Citation needed.

Charlie Reams wrote:

Phil Reynolds wrote:So the ODE (which supposedly reflects widely accepted English usage) spells it differently to how everyone else spells it (including other dictionaries)?

Citation needed.

Collins English Dictionary spells it without the hyphen. And so do I. So that's two sources to the OED's one. I win.

Very strange indeed. The 2-volume Shorter Oxford has no hyphens for PREDATE (either of them, though to be fair only one of them potentially has a hyphen)

I think this is another example of a shortcoming of the ODE for Countdown usage. I've mentioned it elsewhere but the NODE (and presumably the ODE thing that is used now - yes, I'm making an abbsolutely massive assumption) says that where a word can be hyphenated, two words, or one word with no hyphen, it will only list one of these - the one it thinks it most common or something. So while the ODE makers might consider PREDATE (as in PRE DATE) to be perfectly valid, they simply wouldn't bother mentioning it if they prefer PRE-DATE.

Yep. Maybe they should just allow hyphenated words (ignoring the hyphen like they ignore accents.) I can't think of any disastrous consequences of that but there might be a few oddities introduced. If only Julian were here

Charlie Reams wrote:Yep. Maybe they should just allow hyphenated words (ignoring the hyphen like they ignore accents.) I can't think of any disastrous consequences of that but there might be a few oddities introduced. If only Julian were here

My first thought is that you might want to limit it to only one hyphen, to avoid shit like mal-de-mer or whatever (I don't even know if that's in, but it probably is)

Jon Corby wrote:

Damian E wrote:I very much doubt that, given the access you allow to some of the more recent undesirables. Ban everyone except me.

Haha, did you tone this down yourself Damian, or did one of the mods do it?

Even I thought it looked a little harsh for a "Welcome" thread!

DId it myself. In hindsight what appears amusing one minute can look OTT the next. I'm learning.

Very little of what i write has a sarcastic / playful / humourous look about it when read as a post, but in actual fact that's exactly what it is.

There should be an exclusive no-holds-barred thread somewhere where everything written is excused / allowed on the understanding that it never gets taken further. That would be a real treat.

Damian E wrote:
Very little of what i write has a sarcastic / playful / humourous look about it when read as a post, but in actual fact that's exactly what it is.

I have that problem too, otherwise I'd probably have said a bit more on telly. Self-censorship is usually wise in my case, I'm too good at insulting people, especially with written sarcasm being even more impenetrable. Or when I saw something like cuntiest in one of my appearances.

EDIT: Ah, it was only DICKLESS after all. I'm sure Barry Cryer would have appreciated it!

Jon Corby wrote:

Charlie Reams wrote:Yep. Maybe they should just allow hyphenated words (ignoring the hyphen like they ignore accents.) I can't think of any disastrous consequences of that but there might be a few oddities introduced. If only Julian were here

My first thought is that you might want to limit it to only one hyphen, to avoid shit like mal-de-mer or whatever (I don't even know if that's in, but it probably is)

Mal de mer is listed without hyphens, but point taken. For hypercountdown fleur-de-lis would have to be allowed. In crosswords such as the Listener hyphenated words, no matter how many hyphens, are counted as 1 word. EG "Med realm, all at sea, is sick? (8, 3 words)", but "Royal arms? Confusing - I ruled self (10)" as (quite crappy) clue examples.