c4countdown

Good Morning everyone

After four long years in the wilderness- which may or may not have been Sherwood Forest- Countdown in Nottingham is back! The date is Saturday 25 th July 2015, the place is- as always- the Westdale Lane Community Centre in Mapperley, and the time will be 1pm-7pm.

Why the late start, I hear you ask? People have expressed an interest in an event that starts later in the day to allow them time to travel up the same day- not always practical with a 10am or even a 12pm start, but it’s quite possible to get to Nottingham from most parts of the country for a 1pm start. But mostly, it’s because I couldn’t book the hall any earlier than 1pm.

In the past, CoNot has been a Bristol-style (2 to a table) event, but the general preference amongst co-event attendees is for Edinburgh-style (3 to a table) events. So naturally, I’m going to be running CoNot to neither of these styles, instead I’ll be debuting a new ‘Nottingham-style’ system that features five players to a table.

How does this work? Easier than you may think. Take your five players, A, B, C, D & E. In the first game, A hosts, whilst B plays C and D plays E. Both games play to the same selections dealt by A, and the four competing players will pick 2 rounds each. By the end of the first ‘round’, everyone will have played 4 9-round games and hosted 1 (and the round picks will be carefully allocated to ensure no player gets an advantage when it comes to numbers picks). There will be two of these ‘rounds’ followed by a 15-round final, so we should be all done and dusted by 7pm.

There’ll be trophies for 1st-3rd place and a couple of overachiever prizes as well. I may even buy a perpetual trophy for the winner to keep until CoNot V, assuming of course that this event gets enough entries.

Total cost of entry is £15, payable as always by paypal to hulla.mahulla@btopenworld.com...................... or by cheque to my home address (available upon request).

And yes, I’ll be bringing along a few small, inflatable footballs.

Here's the full itinerary-

Hall open 12:00
Draw 12:45
Game 1 13:00
Break 15:00
Game 2 15:30
Final 17:45
Prizegiving 18:15

Hope to see you all in the summer!

List of paid-up entrants (25):

Dylan Taylor
James Robinson
Zarte Siempre
Heather Styles
Jamie McNeill
Graeme Cole
Callum Todd
Richard Priest
Brett Davids
Jack Worsley
Rob Foster
Lee Fisher
Adam Dexter
Jen Steadman
Thomas Carey
Wilf Carey
Tracey Mills
Mark Mills
Chris Marshall
Andy Platt
Gevin Chapwell
Zubair Patel
Mike Brown
John Vivian
Dave Coulthurst

Will hopefully be fine.

Certainly sounds good, will definitely be there provided I'm not on holiday at the time.

I work on Westdale Lane. How could I not be in?

In for this you can be sure of it

Two and a bit months to go, and just 5 entries have been received- so there'll be enough for at least one table, anyway.

Ben Wilson wrote:Two and a bit months to go, and just 5 entries have been received- so there'll be enough for at least one table, anyway.

Pretty strong looking table though.

You can put me down as a maybe.

I'll be there, payment to follow soon.

Just two months- well, two months minus a day- until the event and we're at eight paid-up entries. This is a little lower than I'd have hoped for at this stage but nowhere near any cause for concern, especially as I expect this post to garner a bit more interest.

Regular attendees of COLIN may know that I produce a puzzle magazine to give out to everyone who attends as a special 'freebie'. Those who attended CoNot III (or CoNot 2011 as it ws called back then, in, um, 2011) will remember I did the same there, so yes, CoNot IV will also have a puzzle magazine for all those who attend. Lee Fisher's already provided a puzzle- a numbers-based one rather than his usual crossword- and Graeme Cole's provided a regular crossword as well. There'll be the usual numbers and conundrum challenges, and if you want to contribute to the mag, just let me know and I'll check your submission (though as the magazine will only be 12 pages long, I reserve the right to 'save' any puzzles until COLIN XII).

In addition to trophies there'll also be cheap little trinket-y prizes I'll give away to 1st-3rd, the overachiever and maybe a couple of other spot prizes. These may or may not be 'greatest hits' compilations of previous COLIN/CoNot puzzle mags... Let me know whether you'd prefer these or cheap tat with Robin Hood printed on it.

See you in 2 months (minus a day)!

Well excited about this. Due to my poverty/stinginess (delete where necessary) and cheap trains only being in the early afternoon, I will be hanging around like a massive larry from 3 on the Friday with a 5 hour wait until my companions turn up if anyone has nothing better to do that day and wants outstanding banter, a big dirty Spoons curry and a comprehensive history of Britpop, come and play with me pleeeeease xoxo

Up to 11 entrants now and still plenty of time left... I should be getting the CoNot puzzle mag back from the printers in the next couple of weeks, so keep your eyes peeled for a few sneak previews!

Here's the puzzle mag, folks. This (and 8 games of Countdown in some awesome company on a (hopefully) beautiful summer's day) can be all yours, you know what to do...

Tracey Mills will be in and hope I will too just depends on getting a minder for our youngest, hopefully though we will both be in but will be there.

25 days to go and entries are up to 12 entries- the previous attendance record at CoNot was 21 for CoNot III in 2011, so we can smash that record, surely?

I feel I should go into a bit more detail about the '5 to a table' system as it is a bit new. Basically, as stated in the first post, everyone will be assigned a letter at the start of each round (though as each round will consist of five games, maybe a different word is needed, like 'phase').

Unlike the generic COLIN scoresheets, the CoNot scoresheets have been customised so that whoever's hosting will know instantly who's picking what round and who's playing who. So, for example, if it's player E's turn to host, it'll say on the scoresheet 'A plays D, B plays C, rounds are picked in the order A, B, C, D, D, C, B, A'. During each phase, everyone will pick 2 numbers games and 6 letters games, and every player will get a turn picking the last numbers game.

'But Ben', I hear you cry, 'what if entry numbers don't equal an exact multiple of 5?' Simple. If we're one short of an exact multiple of five, one table willl have a 'prune' on it. If we're two, three or four players short of an exact multiple of five... I thank god for the existence of the genius Graeme Cole, whose atropine pairings program (that debuted at CoBlivi:Lon 2012 and has been in use at COLIN since 2013) has been updated for just an eventuality.

If table numbers can't make an exact multiple of five, then some tables will be played Edinburgh style, with three to a table where one player hosts and the other two play. Rather than play each other once, everyone on these tables will play each other twice so that at the end of each phase, everyone will have played four games (though some people may have hosted more than one).

tl;dr- the scoresheets will know what they're doing.

See you in 25 days.

In looking forward to it - wonder if I can manage a top quarter finish again - I doubt it!

Mark and Tracey Mills money sent, we are both in...see you all there.

The Millses have brought out numbers to 18 for the event, so now's as good a time as any to talk about thecrap prizes that will be on offer on the day.



Here are the trophies (for those who can see the Facebook photo anyway). 1st, 2nd and 3rd will take home one trophy each (I shouldn't need to explain which onesGevin), with the winner taking home the shield until CoNot V. And yes, I will get actual shields to put on it to be engraved. !st-3rd will also get free entry into CoNot V.

As per COLIN, there'll also be an 'overachiever' prize for the person who finishes highest above their projected finish. If I get 30 or more entrants, I'll throw in a second overachiever prize. Two more old favourites from COLIN will also make the trip down the A46- the 'Tuff Luck' prize (for those who lost 3 or more games, the lowest combined losing margins from their three closest games) and the conundrum god badges (though the bar for that is being raised from 5 or more conundrums out of 6 to 7 or more out of 8). All these winners will get little craptrinkets to take home.

There'll be two new prizes on offer as well- for the first round (the 'ascending phase' as I- and, in all likelihood, only I- call it), the highest losing score will get a little trinket, and in the descending phase (or 'round 2' to give it its more accurate name), the best performance from those four games from anyone who doesn't make the final will also get a trinket.

More prizes may be added depending on how many entries I get. So, um, get entering!

No wooden spoon for me..

The big 2-0: reached with 13 days to go, thanks to Andy Platt!

Still plenty of time to get your money to me: as always, if you want to come but you're having difficulty/would prefer not to use Paypal, let me know and I'll make sure we can come to an alternate arrangement.

5 more would make 5 full tables which would make everyone high 5. 5.

I'm probably going to come. And to Milton Keynes. Brace yourself for a double payment.

Gavin Chipper wrote:I'm probably going to come. And to Milton Keynes. Brace yourself for a double payment.

Braced.

Ben Wilson wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:I'm probably going to come. And to Milton Keynes. Brace yourself for a double payment.

Braced.

Blackjack. Next entry sets a new CoNot attendance record!

Google isn't very good with this place. What's the full postal address?

Hi Ben
Would love to come to this event. Payment sent.

Gavin Chipper wrote:Google isn't very good with this place. What's the full postal address?

If you search for Westdale Lane Baptist Church, it's basically in the same location- 368 Westdale Lane, Mapperley, NG3 6ES.

Also- you've been there before.

Ben Wilson wrote:

Gavin Chipper wrote:Google isn't very good with this place. What's the full postal address?

If you search for Westdale Lane Baptist Church, it's basically in the same location- 368 Westdale Lane, Mapperley, NG3 6ES.

Thanks.

Also- you've been there before.

That was years ago though! I don't remember where every place is that I've ever been to!

One concern I have about the new format is over how the declarations will work. As far as I see it, there are two options:

A): The host asks each of the four players individually.
B): The host says either "player one" or "player two" and they mention the length of their word to their opponent, with the process being repeated for the opponents.

A) seems like the easiest way of doing it but if a player has a word they are doubtful of, their decision could be influenced by first hearing the declaration of a player in the other game. It's widely accepted that it's OK to base your decision on what your opponent declares but I think being influenced by a different game somehow doesn't seem right. B) might not eliminate the possibility completely but it would make it more difficult. I don't see this being an issue for the numbers games, as people rarely change their declared target based on their opponent's declaration.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? There may be a better system than either of the two I've mentioned above, so I'll be interested to hear. Maybe Ben's already thought about this.

One other question: Will the two games taking place simultaneously on the same table have separate conundrums?

Jack Worsley wrote:One concern I have about the new format is over how the declarations will work. As far as I see it, there are two options:

A): The host asks each of the four players individually.
B): The host says either "player one" or "player two" and they mention the length of their word to their opponent, with the process being repeated for the opponents.

A) seems like the easiest way of doing it but if a player has a word they are doubtful of, their decision could be influenced by first hearing the declaration of a player in the other game. It's widely accepted that it's OK to base your decision on what your opponent declares but I think being influenced by a different game somehow doesn't seem right. B) might not eliminate the possibility completely but it would make it more difficult. I don't see this being an issue for the numbers games, as people rarely change their declared target based on their opponent's declaration.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? There may be a better system than either of the two I've mentioned above, so I'll be interested to hear. Maybe Ben's already thought about this.

One other question: Will the two games taking place simultaneously on the same table have separate conundrums?

There will be separate conundrums for the games, yes- the host will do them one at a time.

As for declarations, I do see your point- what I'd thought originally was to have it like Bristol-style tourneys, where the opponent would first tell their opponent what they got, and then tell the host in case a word needs clarifying or anything like that.

Hope this clears things up.

Ben Wilson wrote:

Jack Worsley wrote:One concern I have about the new format is over how the declarations will work. As far as I see it, there are two options:

A): The host asks each of the four players individually.
B): The host says either "player one" or "player two" and they mention the length of their word to their opponent, with the process being repeated for the opponents.

A) seems like the easiest way of doing it but if a player has a word they are doubtful of, their decision could be influenced by first hearing the declaration of a player in the other game. It's widely accepted that it's OK to base your decision on what your opponent declares but I think being influenced by a different game somehow doesn't seem right. B) might not eliminate the possibility completely but it would make it more difficult. I don't see this being an issue for the numbers games, as people rarely change their declared target based on their opponent's declaration.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? There may be a better system than either of the two I've mentioned above, so I'll be interested to hear. Maybe Ben's already thought about this.

One other question: Will the two games taking place simultaneously on the same table have separate conundrums?

There will be separate conundrums for the games, yes- the host will do them one at a time.

As for declarations, I do see your point- what I'd thought originally was to have it like Bristol-style tourneys, where the opponent would first tell their opponent what they got, and then tell the host in case a word needs clarifying or anything like that.

Hope this clears things up.

Yes, cheers. I prefer that method.

Is it the standard method?

Gavin Chipper wrote:Is it the standard method?

It is now.

As a complete virgin to co-events, would anyone mind a quick recap as to what to bring and any dos and don'ts when it comes to behaviour? I would like to come across as neither a bore nor a fool.

Also, for those interested in a double celebration that day, i believe it's also the date of Nottingham Pride.

Brett Davids wrote:As a complete virgin to co-events, would anyone mind a quick recap as to what to bring and any dos and don'ts when it comes to behaviour? I would like to come across as neither a bore nor a fool.

Also, for those interested in a double celebration that day, i believe it's also the date of Nottingham Pride.

You don't really need to bring anything special. The minimum requirement is yourself and your brain but pen, paper and maybe a timing device are preferable. If you forget, there should be some provided at the event.

In terms of conduct, just remember to have fun! Co-events are always played in a great spirit and I've loved every one that I've ever been to. As long as you're respectful to other players (which you clearly are on apterous), you will be fine. Hosting a game is reasonably straight forward and if you get stuck, other players will help you out. The format for this event is new, so everyone's in the same boat but it should work out fine. Hope that helps.

Many of you might not have attended a CO-event before, and because these events are attended by lots of people who have been to loads of them, sometimes newcomers aren't sure what to expect. Maybe some visitors to this forum are put off attending events because they seem like mysterious cliquey gatherings. This won't do at all.

This thread was intended to demystify it all somewhat, but a lot of the information in it is rather out of date now.

So. Here is...

The newcomer's guide to attending a CO-event!

A lot of this, but not all of it, applies to CoNot.

So you all meet up in a village hall somewhere and play Countdown for the day. How does that... work?
The actual format of the tournament varies from event to event, but generally you will play a smallish number of Countdown games, ideally each against a different player over the course of the day (or, indeed, night). Lots of games go on at once, either to the same letters and numbers selections presented at the front (Bristol style), or independently with a Countdown board game and stopwatch on each table (Lincoln style). The nitty-gritty of how fixtures are decided varies between events, but usually, as the day goes on, you get matched up against players who have performed roughly the same as you. This means that if you're a novice you don't need to worry about being put up against one of the elite players - this probably won't happen after the first round of games.

I've heard I have to host games as well as play them?
If it's not a Bristol-style event, yes. At Lincoln, for example, in each phase the players are divided up into groups of three, each group takes a table, and then on each table each pair plays each other with the third person hosting. Hosting means dealing the letters and numbers out, asking for the declarations, and keeping the score on the scoresheet. If you can use a stopwatch, lay letter and number cards on a table, and write scores down, you are capable of hosting a game. If you're a newcomer to CO-events, then one of the players on your table who's been to an event before ought to host first, so you get a feel for how it all works.

How does the conundrum work?
At Bristol-style events, the scramble is revealed on a big screen at the front. You tap the table to signal to your opponent that you've got it, and write the answer down. Your opponent is free to do the same afterwards if they spot the answer, in case you got it wrong. I've never really liked this arrangement, but nobody's suggested anything better.

At Lincoln-style events, when it gets to the conundrum, you, as the host, toddle up to the organiser's table and ask for a conundrum. You will be presented with a slip of paper with the scramble on it and told the answer. Return to the table, reveal the scramble to the players and start the stopwatch. Watch carefully for who smacks the table first so you know who to ask for the answer. Over the years many techniques have been developed for revealing the conundrum and starting the stopwatch in a way that (a) reveals the conundrum cleanly to both players at once, (b) requires no more than two hands, and (c) doesn't make the conundrum fly off the table or accidentally be seen prematurely by one of the players. The current state of the art is that you just have to pick two of (a), (b) and (c). Have fun.

Help! Two players tapped the table at the same time and both gave the right answer!
This sometimes happens, and when it does you scrap the conundrum and get another one. The organiser will have made spare conundrums for exactly this purpose. The problem is arguably worse at Bristol-style events where your game doesn't have its own host, and you (as the player) are paying more attention to the conundrum on the screen than to your opponent, so it's easy to not realise that your opponent has buzzed. Whatever the reason, scrapping the conundrum and doing another one is the usual course of action.

How does the host check whether a word is valid?
Either dictionaries will be dotted around the room, or you'll look up words on ODO using whatever interwebz-enabled doohickey you have to hand.

What if I'm hosting and a situation comes up that I don't know how to deal with?
One or both of the players will probably know. If they don't, because you've somehow ended up in a situation straight out of You Are The Ref, the tournament organiser will.

Who wins?
Again, the precise rules depend on the event, but usually the two best-performing players, judged by number of wins then number of points scored, play each other in a final which everyone else spectates.

For mysterious and unspecified reasons I can only attend one CO-event in the entire year. Which one should it be?
COLIN.

Here is a useful list of DOs and DON'Ts.

DO

• Turn up if you've entered the event. This might seem simple and not worth mentioning, but you'd be surprised how many people don't manage it. Of course, life not being perfect, sometimes you suddenly find you can't turn up, or are going to be significantly late. If this is the case, let the organiser know. If you call up the organiser ten minutes before the event starts and say that you can't make it, that's fine and it's really easy to deal with. If you're mysteriously not there ten minutes after the event has started, that's really awkward to deal with. The organiser paces around in circles wondering whether to leave your name in the player list in the hope you turn up later, and if so how to deal with your absence until then.
• Hand the scoresheet in to the organiser after you've finished a game. Again, you'd be surprised how many people forget this. The organiser's computer screen shows all the fixtures in the current phase and which ones are still to be played, so if you fail at this step then Ben will trot over to your table and ask for the three scoresheets he knows you're hoarding.
• At a Lincoln-style three-to-a-table event, each player should get one turn at hosting, one turn at being player 1, and one turn at being player 2. If you're hosting, it's best to arrange yourselves around the table such that the players are on the opposite side of the table to you, player 1 is on your left and player 2 is on your right. In my experience this makes it much more likely that you'll put the scores the right way round on the scoresheet.
• Pay attention to everything Jack's said in his much more concise post.
• Come along to the pub afterwards if you can. Practically every CO-event is followed by dinner at a pub somewhere. CO-events are as much a social occasion as a Countdown tournament - many would say more so.

DON'T

• Eat the Chicken McNuggets from the South Hykeham McDonald's.
• Stay up until half past one in the morning typing what was supposed to be a quick response to a forum post but ended up being a massive essay.

Jack Worsley wrote:Hosting a game is reasonably straight forward and if you get stuck, other players will help you out. The format for this event is new, so everyone's in the same boat but it should work out fine. Hope that helps.

I always recommend that people who are new to co-events don't host the first game on the table so as to have time to settle in- as Jack says, this format will be new to everyone but trust me when I say you'll get into the swing of things very quickly.

Also, Charlie, please fix likes for Graeme's post.

Brett Davids wrote:Also, for those interested in a double celebration that day, i believe it's also the date of Nottingham Pride.

Co-events are nothing if not steeped in tradition.

Gays? Really?

FFS...

Graeme Cole wrote:DON'T

• Eat the Chicken McNuggets from the South Hykeham McDonald's.

Ace guide.

For mysterious and unspecified reasons I can only attend one CO-event in the entire year. Which one should it be?
COLIN.

You had a go at me for this exact stance like three weeks ago. I can't operate in such inconsistency. Sort it out Cole.

Mark Deeks wrote:

For mysterious and unspecified reasons I can only attend one CO-event in the entire year. Which one should it be?
COLIN.

You had a go at me for this exact stance like three weeks ago. I can't operate in such inconsistency. Sort it out Cole.

Very well.

For mysterious and unspecified reasons I can only attend one CO-event in the entire year. Which one should it be?
COLIN, because that's the one Mark goes to.

If you're hosting a game, make sure you display the conundrum scramble and not the answer, especially if it's crucial. Graeme will probably remember some idiot screwing this up at COBLIV 2013.

If you're hosting a game, don't be so intoxicated that you can no longer read the letters upside down and start calling out numbers during a letters round.

If your opponent buzzes in on the conundrum before you and gets it wrong, don't guess exactly the same answer a few seconds later. Changing the pronunciation won't fool anyone.
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_COSTAL7

Jack Worsley wrote:If you're hosting a game, make sure you display the conundrum scramble and not the answer, especially if it's crucial. Graeme will probably remember some idiot screwing this up at COBLIV 2013.

And still nobody got it.

Zarte Siempre wrote:If you're hosting a game, don't be so intoxicated that you can no longer read the letters upside down and start calling out numbers during a letters round.

Also, don't select 'four large' during a letters round due to tiredness, comment on this in a subsequent game and then do the exact same thing about two rounds later.

Just over 3 days to go and Co-event veteran Dave Coulthurst has brought entry numbers up to the magical 25 figure, meaning that CoNot V is definitely a go for 2016... Just need to get CoNot IV out of the way first.

Seedings for the event will go up tomorrow. The draw for the ascending phase will be done COLIN-style with 5 bags of 5 names each. Assuming there aren't any more entries, in which case, with some tables having 5 players and some having 3, I may have to get a little bit creative.

I won't be entering but I might be around Friday.

Sadly will be absent from my home tournament but around on Friday (and maybe Sunday afternoon) as well. Nottingham has quite a few 'spoons so plenty of cheap options to meet up

Who is staying on the Friday night and where? I'm unlikely to stay on the Saturday night but might on the Friday (nice bit of late planning).

I think we're all staying in the Nottingham Central 'Lodge on Friday night, Gev. (We = me, Zarte, Jamie, Bundy, Heather, Andy, Graeme) Come join us on our Spoons crawl!

(Dunno why everyone's staying over on the Friday when the whole point of the later start was to make it easier for people to travel up on the day of event itself :-/)

Here are the seeings. Complaints/anger to the usual place.

1. Robert Foster
2. Jack Worsley
3. Dylan Taylor
4. Callum Todd
5. Zarte Siempre
6. Graeme Cole
7. Andy Platt
8. Jen Steadman
9. James Robinson
10. Jamie McNeill
11. Tracey Mills
12. Tom Carey
13. Richard Priest
14. John Vivian
15. Heather Styles
16. Adam Dexter
17. Chris Marshall
18. Mike Brown
19. Zubair Patel
20. Brett Davids
21. Mark Mills
22. Gevin Chapwell
23. David Coulturst
24. Lee Fisher
25. Wilf Carey

Ben Wilson wrote:(Dunno why everyone's staying over on the Friday when the whole point of the later start was to make it easier for people to travel up on the day of event itself :-/)

The late start also works well for Spoons-induced hangovers and Ring Of Fire-induced sleep deprivation.

Ben Wilson wrote:(Dunno why everyone's staying over on the Friday when the whole point of the later start was to make it easier for people to travel up on the day of event itself :-/)

Aight, fine, stick it up your arse then. *picks up ball and leaves*

Jennifer Steadman wrote:

Ben Wilson wrote:(Dunno why everyone's staying over on the Friday when the whole point of the later start was to make it easier for people to travel up on the day of event itself :-/)

The late start also works well for Spoons-induced hangovers and Ring Of Fire-induced sleep deprivation.

And I might hunt down a parkrun on Saturday morning.

I've officially booked the Travelodge for Friday.

Ben, next time, pick a weekend when there's a rail strike on the Friday if you really want to keep people out of Nottingham before the event!

Mark Deeks wrote:I won't be entering but I might be around Friday.

Mark Deeks wrote:Aight, fine, stick it up your arse then. *picks up ball and leaves*

"*picks up ball and leaves*"

Suggest easier to carry ball if not also carrying leaves.

If anyone needs a lift from the train station to the event around 11.45 they're more than welcome to jump in with me. Drop me a message on Apterous or Facebook.