c4countdown

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:56 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:I
[*] Most common incorrect conundrum guesses. Done. Guess what's #1...

Number 30

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:10 pm**

I don't understand why the 'correct' version of gandiseeg is given as paganised?

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:26 pm**

Kieran Child wrote:I don't understand why the 'correct' version of gandiseeg is given as paganised?

As the text at the top says, it's the intended answer, not necessarily one which uses the correct letters. People answer gandiseeg to any random conundrum and it just so happens that PAGANISED is top of that long list right now.

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:44 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:As the text at the top says, it's the intended answer, not necessarily one which uses the correct letters. People answer gandiseeg to any random conundrum and it just so happens that PAGANISED is top of that long list right now.

Didn't the Duellist go through a phase of guessing GANDISEEG for every conundrum if the human player got it wrong? Surely there haven't been that many GANDISEEGs from human users already?

Awesome work as ever, Charlie. I'm also enjoying the eye of apterous - any plans for a Statland page of biggest upsets/worst predictions/whatever for the eye?

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:39 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:
Kieran Child wrote:I don't understand why the 'correct' version of gandiseeg is given as paganised?
As the text at the top says, it's the intended answer, not necessarily one which uses the correct letters. People answer gandiseeg to any random conundrum and it just so happens that PAGANISED is top of that long list right now.

Hang on - what? So people have offered GANDISEEG 1634 times as an answer, but presumably not 1634 times with PAGANISED as the correct answer? Is it that for GANDISEEG guesses, PAGANISED happens to be the most common real answer but with presumably about 4 (total guess) instances of this? If so the page seems a bit misleading.

Edit - 4 indeed. I found 1. http://www.apterous.org/viewgame.php?ga ... 77#r351977

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:43 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:A scoring system that awards points not on how long a word is but on where it ranks in terms of longest words in the selection (obviously maxes only is this to an extent but this goes further). For joint positions, we could be generous so if there are 5 joint longest words, you'd still get the top-ranking score. But then the next word along would only get points for the 6th rank obviously.

I like the idea of the score being proportional to the reciprocal of the rank position. I think a reasonable compromise would be 12, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. Nothing for 7th or lower. Or maybe 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 to fit in with the old F1 scoring system. And so that 10 points is the maximum in all rounds. Or 10, 5, 3, 2, 1. And also both players score.
This does sound oddly familiar.
OK. Looks a bit different though.

And I still prefer mine.

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:19 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote: Hang on - what? So people have offered GANDISEEG 1634 times as an answer, but presumably not 1634 times with PAGANISED as the correct answer? Is it that for GANDISEEG guesses, PAGANISED happens to be the most common real answer but with presumably about 4 (total guess) instances of this? If so the page seems a bit misleading.

Edit - 4 indeed. I found 1. http://www.apterous.org/viewgame.php?ga ... 77#r351977

Correct. If people give the same wrong answer to multiple conundrums then it just picks one arbitrarily.

Posted: **Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:14 pm**

Does the time limit in picking letters need to be so harsh? Until yesterday I hadn't played for ages and it wasn't like that before. After about your fourth letter, you get a patience bar. It might seem like plenty of time for those who don't write letters down, but it gives you very little chance at all if you want to write the letters down as you go along. Since Apterous is now the main breeding ground for superstars, it seems that all future greats will be players that don't write letters down. Charlie, you're playing God!

Posted: **Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:51 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:Does the time limit in picking letters need to be so harsh? Until yesterday I hadn't played for ages and it wasn't like that before. After about your fourth letter, you get a patience bar. It might seem like plenty of time for those who don't write letters down, but it gives you very little chance at all if you want to write the letters down as you go along. Since Apterous is now the main breeding ground for superstars, it seems that all future greats will be players that don't write letters down. Charlie, you're playing God!

Rubbish. I write letters down when watching TV or when on the show (not so much on apterous). If people go vowels first (Hurrell) I will write them down and there is plenty of time even when he picks quickly.

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:03 pm**

Kirk Bevins wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Does the time limit in picking letters need to be so harsh? Until yesterday I hadn't played for ages and it wasn't like that before. After about your fourth letter, you get a patience bar. It might seem like plenty of time for those who don't write letters down, but it gives you very little chance at all if you want to write the letters down as you go along. Since Apterous is now the main breeding ground for superstars, it seems that all future greats will be players that don't write letters down. Charlie, you're playing God!
Rubbish. I write letters down when watching TV or when on the show (not so much on apterous). If people go vowels first (Hurrell) I will write them down and there is plenty of time even when he picks quickly.

But what about when you're picking? It's much harder then. I don't mean specifically when Kirk Bevins is picking. It's hard for the picker to write down the letters as they pick.

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:32 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Kirk Bevins wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Does the time limit in picking letters need to be so harsh? Until yesterday I hadn't played for ages and it wasn't like that before. After about your fourth letter, you get a patience bar. It might seem like plenty of time for those who don't write letters down, but it gives you very little chance at all if you want to write the letters down as you go along. Since Apterous is now the main breeding ground for superstars, it seems that all future greats will be players that don't write letters down. Charlie, you're playing God!
Rubbish. I write letters down when watching TV or when on the show (not so much on apterous). If people go vowels first (Hurrell) I will write them down and there is plenty of time even when he picks quickly.
But what about when you're picking? It's much harder then. I don't mean specifically when Kirk Bevins is picking. It's hard for the picker to write down the letters as they pick.

I find the whole concept of writing things down when playing on apterous bizarre. I know people do it, but surely not many?

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:00 pm**

JimBentley wrote:I find the whole concept of writing things down when playing on apterous bizarre. I know people do it, but surely not many?

Me too. I find any writing down of letters/numbers quite odd, they're all like there, really clearly. Not in shit handwriting or anything.

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:55 pm**

Jon Corby wrote:
JimBentley wrote:I find the whole concept of writing things down when playing on apterous bizarre. I know people do it, but surely not many?
Me too. I find any writing down of letters/numbers quite odd, they're all like there, really clearly. Not in shit handwriting or anything.

I find it hard to get words out of a selection when they're all in a line. I find myself putting my fingers over the screen and still not finding any decent words.

Jim, is it just in Apterous that you find it bizarre or Countdown as a whole? My hunch is that most people who play Countdown at home find it easier to find words when they write them down - maybe in a circle or a 3 by 3 block or whatever. This would surely extend to Apterous. I think it's only really good players who don't need to do this and I think I decided a while back from reading people's posts in a thread that even the really good players probably miss some things from not writing a selection down.

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:15 pm**

Worth reading this: http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic. ... 11&p=23831

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:55 pm**

If you choose your selections with the keyboard (C for consonant, V for vowel) you should have no problem comfortably choosing the letters with one hand (as C and V are adjacent) and writing them down with the other hand.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:09 am**

Simon Myers wrote:If you choose your selections with the keyboard (C for consonant, V for vowel) you should have no problem comfortably choosing the letters with one hand (as C and V are adjacent) and writing them down with the other hand.

Was about to post this.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:14 am**

Kirk Bevins wrote:
Simon Myers wrote:If you choose your selections with the keyboard (C for consonant, V for vowel) you should have no problem comfortably choosing the letters with one hand (as C and V are adjacent) and writing them down with the other hand.
Was about to post this.

I'm not sure we wanted to know you play apterous one-handed.

(Not that I'm surprised, mind.)

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:02 pm**

Kirk Bevins wrote:
Simon Myers wrote:If you choose your selections with the keyboard (C for consonant, V for vowel) you should have no problem comfortably choosing the letters with one hand (as C and V are adjacent) and writing them down with the other hand.
Was about to post this.

Oh you can do that can you?

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:38 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Kirk Bevins wrote:
Simon Myers wrote:If you choose your selections with the keyboard (C for consonant, V for vowel) you should have no problem comfortably choosing the letters with one hand (as C and V are adjacent) and writing them down with the other hand.
Was about to post this.
Oh you can do that can you?

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:40 pm**

Matt Morrison wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Oh you can do that can you?

Yeah yeah I know - read the instructions!

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:42 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Oh you can do that can you?

Yeah yeah I know - read the instructions!

Hehe, I don't really have a right to complain any more as I seem to have stopped updating the help section, but on the other hand it was this kind of disillusionment that stopped me bothering as well.
It's quite surprising how many solid long-term apterous members have something to learn - you with the C/V, Ben with the numbers notes section etc.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:44 pm**

Matt Morrison wrote: It's quite surprising how many solid long-term apterous members have something to learn - you with the C/V, Ben with the numbers notes section etc.

And if you click the number itself (the target number) then it saves you declaring the exact target in the declaration box. I see so many people want to declare the target of 748 and then declare 74 and then time runs out. I say why didn't you just click the target as it's quicker and they have no idea.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:16 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:Jim, is it just in Apterous that you find it bizarre or Countdown as a whole?

Both, but especially so on apterous as the pace is so much faster. For the few months before I went on the show, I did write stuff down but that was really only to get into the habit of doing it, as I knew I'd have to do when I appeared. Since then, never. As Jon said, the letters and numbers are much clearer on the screen than they could ever be handwritten, even in my awesome handwriting.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:12 pm**

JimBentley wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:Jim, is it just in Apterous that you find it bizarre or Countdown as a whole?
Both, but especially so on apterous as the pace is so much faster. For the few months before I went on the show, I did write stuff down but that was really only to get into the habit of doing it, as I knew I'd have to do when I appeared. Since then, never. As Jon said, the letters and numbers are much clearer on the screen than they could ever be handwritten, even in my awesome handwriting.

Maybe your handwriting just isn't awesome enough - even Charlie admitted in one thread that my handwriting is the most awesome he's ever seen. The letters may be clearer on the screen but it's the arrangement of them that can be a problem for some people. Anyway the CV remedy may help a bit but I still think the limit is a bit harsh as it is and if it needs to exist at all I think it should only be for the last letter or two.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:08 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:The letters may be clearer on the screen but it's the arrangement of them that can be a problem for some people. Anyway the CV remedy may help a bit but I still think the limit is a bit harsh as it is and if it needs to exist at all I think it should only be for the last letter or two.

The thing is, this discussion suggests that you'd be pretty much the only one who'd really benefit from the timer being removed.
Whereas looking at it in flip reverse, the timer being there is stopping x amount of people who might abuse the lack of a timer to work out stems before the final letters come out, or to run off in the middle of a round leaving their opponent waiting etc. etc.

Perhaps you could pick a bunch of consonants first, and then leave the timer to run out while you concentrate on writing down letters (each time the timer runs out a vowel will automatically be picked), then you'll have the maximum possible time to write them down.

Posted: **Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:51 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:A scoring system that awards points not on how long a word is but on where it ranks in terms of longest words in the selection (obviously maxes only is this to an extent but this goes further). For joint positions, we could be generous so if there are 5 joint longest words, you'd still get the top-ranking score. But then the next word along would only get points for the 6th rank obviously.

I like the idea of the score being proportional to the reciprocal of the rank position. I think a reasonable compromise would be 12, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. Nothing for 7th or lower. Or maybe 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 to fit in with the old F1 scoring system. And so that 10 points is the maximum in all rounds. Or 10, 5, 3, 2, 1. And also both players score.

This idea looks really good (it's also close to how I would judge octo runs if I was going to go through them all - I think it beats number of maxes or percentage of max score). So well done Gavin for coming up with that.

Also how about a search facility for chat logs (I don't think there is one)?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:36 pm**

This isn't an apterous feature request, but it's for the forum.

Could we have a sort of karma system for liking or disliking posts?

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:29 pm**

For Statland, how about some more conundrum stats, most missed, completely missed, most common, least common, and perhaps a unique conundrums in superstats for ones people have only gotten once, if there are any at all.

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:07 am**

Following recent events, how about a facility enabling players to boot a troublemaker? Say, three or four people's 'boot' required within a minute or two, only available to paid-up players.

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:39 am**

Alec Rivers wrote:Following recent events, how about a facility enabling players to boot a troublemaker? Say, three or four people's 'boot' required within a minute or two, only available to paid-up players.

Sounds interesting, have I missed some controversy?

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:45 am**

Ian Volante wrote:
Alec Rivers wrote:Following recent events, how about a facility enabling players to boot a troublemaker? Say, three or four people's 'boot' required within a minute or two, only available to paid-up players.
Sounds interesting, have I missed some controversy?

Not really, just some 15 year old kid trying to "be" Patrick Bateman from American Psycho, and not doing a very good job of it.

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:46 am**

JimBentley wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:
Alec Rivers wrote:Following recent events, how about a facility enabling players to boot a troublemaker? Say, three or four people's 'boot' required within a minute or two, only available to paid-up players.
Sounds interesting, have I missed some controversy?
Not really, just some 15 year old kid trying to "be" Patrick Bateman from American Psycho, and not really doing a very good job of it.

Aye just seen it, I was wondering if anyone had picked up on the reference.

Posted: **Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:53 pm**

Anything for statland on the availability of consecutive nines (for flaky and ambulancy purposes)? Maybe '% of games in which they're available' and so forth.

Posted: **Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:55 pm**

Ben Wilson wrote:Anything for statland on the availability of consecutive nines (for flaky and ambulancy purposes)? Maybe '% of games in which they're available' and so forth.

It's gonna be P(nine)² and P(nine)³ to a very good approximation.

Posted: **Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:Anything for statland on the availability of consecutive nines (for flaky and ambulancy purposes)? Maybe '% of games in which they're available' and so forth.
It's gonna be P(nine)² and P(nine)³ to a very good approximation.

So according to this page its gonna be about 1/400 and 1/8000 chance of a flake or ambulance being available, respectively. Im sure lots of you folks could do the maths if you wanna work out the prob of eith coming up in a game.

I also have a question to go with this post. If you get an ambulance, do you also get 2 flakes for the two combinations of consecutive 9's within the 3?

And if thats the case, would you get 3 flakes and 2 ambulances for 4 consecutive nines?

Posted: **Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:05 pm**

JackHurst wrote: I also have a question to go with this post. If you get an ambulance, do you also get 2 flakes for the two combinations of consecutive 9's within the 3?

You get an ambulance for the first pair and just a flake for the 3rd. Hopefully.

Posted: **Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:10 pm**

Would it be possible to have a Player Status feature? A symbol next to the name or a colour change could indicate:

Available for play (either not in a game or playing a bot but accepting challenges)
Not available for play (e.g. waiting for a particular opponent or just there to chat)
Away from computer for a moment

Maybe there could be a row of three small buttons beneath the Settings button for players to indicate their status.

I asked some others and they were keen on the idea, too.

Posted: **Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:29 pm**

Alec Rivers wrote:Would it be possible to have a Player Status feature? A symbol next to the name or a colour change could indicate:

Available for play (either not in a game or playing a bot but accepting challenges)
Not available for play (e.g. waiting for a particular opponent or just there to chat)
Away from computer for a moment
Maybe there could be a row of three small buttons beneath the Settings button for players to indicate their status.

I asked some others and they were keen on the idea, too.

This has been on my todo list for a good six months, I can't remember who first suggested it. It will happen eventually, I promise.

Posted: **Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:25 pm**

Nice one. Thanks.

Posted: **Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:06 pm**

An option in your settings that lets you change the letters arrangement as it appears on screen in rounds would be nice.

i.e. Letters in a square, or in a circle.

Getting a square of letters in Junior of hyper might be tricky though.

Posted: **Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:48 pm**

Alec Rivers wrote:Would it be possible to have a Player Status feature? A symbol next to the name or a colour change could indicate:

Available for play (either not in a game or playing a bot but accepting challenges)
Not available for play (e.g. waiting for a particular opponent or just there to chat)
Away from computer for a moment
Maybe there could be a row of three small buttons beneath the Settings button for players to indicate their status.

I asked some others and they were keen on the idea, too.

Done.

Posted: **Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:16 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:Done.

Excellent job. I don't know if you saw me ask in the game chat, but it would be awfully fab if you could give the new panel a fixed height.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:37 pm**

I like the Duel leaderboard, Charlie. Any chance of just one enhancement to it? Showing the number of people who have competed so far today would avoid the necessity for me to count through all the duel games in Today's games in order to confirm that I'm right at the bottom; I would be able to tell immediately.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:24 am**

Howard Somerset wrote:I like the Duel leaderboard, Charlie. Any chance of just one enhancement to it? Showing the number of people who have competed so far today would avoid the necessity for me to count through all the duel games in Today's games in order to confirm that I'm right at the bottom; I would be able to tell immediately.

Done.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:34 am**

Charlie Reams wrote:
Howard Somerset wrote:I like the Duel leaderboard, Charlie. Any chance of just one enhancement to it? Showing the number of people who have competed so far today would avoid the necessity for me to count through all the duel games in Today's games in order to confirm that I'm right at the bottom; I would be able to tell immediately.
Done.

Thanks.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:04 pm**

Could we have a "forgotten password" link on the signing in page, like you get on most websites which require passwords?

This would save us having to contact you each time we have trouble signing in, and save you from having to reset us manually.
I am permanently signed in at home, but I cannot get myself signed in anywhere else now.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:49 pm**

Derek Hazell wrote:Could we have a "forgotten password" link on the signing in page, like you get on most webistes which require passwords?

This would save us having to contact you each time we have trouble signing in, and save you from having to reset us manually.
I am permanently signed in at home, but I cannot get myself signed in anywhere else now.

This has been top of my to-do list for ages because all the people who forget their passwords email me them asking for them back (which I can't do, so I have to reset them and arghhh) but I finally got email working the other day so this may happen soon.

Posted: **Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:53 pm**

Format request- hypergoatblitz and juniorgoatblitz.

Also for the high scores, can we have a grid-style arrangement where we can see, say, comparative scores of letters attacks across the variants? Laid out as having the standard formats (15R, 9R, blitz etc.) on the y axis and variants on the x.

Posted: **Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:58 am**

Ok, I've been suggesting lots of mildly interesting but utterly useless features, but now I'll try something useful.
Apterous training games, 'rigged' games which purposely have words from most missed lists and stem lists as maxes. Probably a lot of work though, just a thought.

Posted: **Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:26 am**

Thanks to all the hard work of those who typed in the long words in the dictionary, it is now possible to score with some very long words in Unlimited and HyperUnlimited.

Suggestion: Could we have an addition to the Stats pages please for longest words offered/missed in these two formats? There would probably be multiple offerings of SENSELESSNESSES etc for 15 letters (which I think is the longest word I've offered), but I know I've missed a few 16- and 17-letter maxes before.

(Incidentally, does anyone with the electronic dictionary know the longest words that can be made from a 7-letter Unlimited or 9-letter HyperUnlimited selection?)

[Edit: see also the "bug report" thread about 16-letter+ offerings being truncated to the first 15 letters when recorded.]

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:32 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:Once in a numbers game, I entered my solution into the box, clicked on "end round early", and then my attention drifted away until I realised that I'd typed something in wrongly and also that I'd run out of time on the second chance thing! My suggestion would be that if you end the round early but make a mistake, it goes straight to the other bit without having to wait for the time to run down or the other player to click on "end round early".

Also if I declare further away from the target than my opponent, and I don't enter it into the first box, then it won't ask me for my solution unless the other player gets it wrong. I don't like the bit where you've got to sit staring at the screen waiting to see if you have to enter your solution. Can't it have you enter it anyway?

I think this is still the same as it was when I suggested it, so I'm going to bump it.

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:34 pm**

Gavin Chipper wrote:Like the classic games, but an option to replay old games on Apterous. I think it would be a useful tool as people could play their old games to see if they've learnt anything.

And this.

(Obviously we all think Apterous is great, and pestering you for changes is not an indication that we don't think so.)

Posted: **Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:38 pm**

Charlie Reams wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:you could just have a demo mode where you just get one round of each (letters, numbers and conundrum) or even a full game that's the same game every time - just something to let you practise the controls. In terms of drawing in a wider audience and getting donations from them, I think this would help matters.
That's a pretty good idea. Prod me if I haven't done this in a week's time.

What can non-donators do these days? I don't see it from their perspective so I wouldn't know.

Posted: **Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:42 am**

A stat land/high score suggestion. On the state for each format of game where there are high score and perfect games etc, maybe have a table with most games played in it, listing all the players who have played that variant the most times, and how many times they have played it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:20 am**

Simon Myers wrote: For Superstats:

Per numbers format max graphs

Hooray!

Posted: **Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:05 am**

Charlie Reams wrote:
Simon Myers wrote: For Superstats:

Per numbers format max graphs
Hooray!

Surely the bottom line should be telling me something...

Posted: **Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:09 pm**

Kai Laddiman wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
Simon Myers wrote: For Superstats:

Per numbers format max graphs
Hooray!
Surely the bottom line should be telling me something...

Don't worry Kai, I'm not gonna learn from this either.

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:16 pm**

My 4 large line says it all. http://apterous.org/superstats_user.php ... section=18

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:08 pm**

I love the new addition of the rules tab when you start a game. I think when you spectate a game it should mention at the top that the players can't see the chat. I've had a lot of people ask me (when we're spectating together) if the contestants can see our offerings in the spectate window.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:44 pm**

I think an item in the inventory should be added for every time you declare the word APTEROUS as a max. A beetle perhaps.

c4countdown

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