How many swear words does Kai know?

[George Jenkins]

ON THE SUBJECT OF NOSH
This was the letter that Giles Coren wrote to "The Times" sub editors on the subject, it's hilarious. A sub-editor changed copy from "a nosh" to "nosh". I particularly love the swearing

Gile Coren said
"Chaps,

I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony, who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.

I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you that fucked up my review on saturday.

It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with him into the weekend.

I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."

It appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."

There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate cunt and i know best".

Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.
1) 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentence also that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.

2) I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?

3) And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck.

I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is.

It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me.

I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job.

And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy.

Right,
Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose.
All the best
Giles"

I gave up swearing many Years ago, after an older workmate reprimanded me for swearing during an argument. He told me that I'd lost the argument as soon as I had started to swear.

However, when reading these messages, it seems that swearing is quite acceptable, and part of modern language, so I must be careful not to be led back to my old bad habits

[Julie T]

giles coren as a guest ??

In dictionary corner? Great idea! He doesn't seem to do much, if any, TV work, though.

Giles Coren has appeared on TV quite a lot but is probably best known for co-presenting (with Sue Perkins) Edwardian Supersize Me

Ah, I stand corrected.
Didn't really notice that one, since I don't tend to watch programmes about overeating and obesity - a bit too close to home!

[Kate Richardson]

I am formulating a theory that having an extensive knowledge of slang and swearwords is a pretty good tactic to playing countdown, paticularly archaic words, might give the viewing public a collective heart attack tho'

[Michael Wallace]

I gave up swearing many Years ago, after an older workmate reprimanded me for swearing during an argument. He told me that I'd lost the argument as soon as I had started to swear.

Bollocks.

[Hannah O]

Nice reply, Michael!

Personally, I find when I get annoyed I start to use longer words rather than shorter, and I become more articulate. "f***" may be a catch-all word, functioning as a verb, adjective and interjection-style noun, but you can't say precisely what you mean with it (unless you are telling someone to go and, well, you get the point). Besides, occasionally the pen is mightier than the sword, and if you know all sorts of cutting words and rejoinders it's much more satisfying than telling someone to go and, well, you get the point!

[George Jenkins]

Nice reply, Michael!

Personally, I find when I get annoyed I start to use longer words rather than shorter, and I become more articulate. "f***" may be a catch-all word, functioning as a verb, adjective and interjection-style noun, but you can't say precisely what you mean with it (unless you are telling someone to go and, well, you get the point). Besides, occasionally the pen is mightier than the sword, and if you know all sorts of cutting words and rejoinders it's much more satisfying than telling someone to go and, well, you get the point!

Well said Hannah! When foul language becomes part of normal speech, it loses impact and is meaningless. I remember the time years ago, when I entered the Train Driver's mess room at Victoria. It was full with Drivers playing cards, drinking tea etc. One of them shouted something at me which was derogatory to me, but said in jest. I answered with just one word, "Bollocks". Have you heard the expression "deafening silence". The talk subsided, and one of my mates said, "did you hear that, george just swore"

Actually, I don't think that I did, because I could have said genitals, which are the same things.
Anyway, it had the desired effect because it was unexpected.

I would like you young lads and lassies to know that I have no objection at all to the bad language used in these pages. I don't want to be known as a sanctimonious old git, and it is no worse than we hear on the Television with cookery programmes.

[Julie T]

[quote="Hannah O"]

Personally, I find when I get annoyed I start to use longer words rather than shorter, and I become more articulate. [quote]

Me too!
I've been accused on another forum of using a dictionary and deliberately using obscure words in a superior 'I'm more intelligent than you' sort of way.
I simply become more verbose when riled.

At least on this forum I could never be accused of belittling anyone. Most are brighter than me!

[Ian Volante]

Personally, I find when I get annoyed I start to use longer words rather than shorter, and I become more articulate.

Me too!
I've been accused on another forum of using a dictionary and deliberately using obscure words in a superior 'I'm more intelligent than you' sort of way.
I simply become more verbose when riled.

At least on this forum I could never be accused of belittling anyone. Most are brighter than me!

Yep, me too, and it's bitten me on the arse on occasion when I've got too clever for my own good and said exactly the opposite of what I meant to say...

[Brian Moore]

"f***" may be a catch-all word, functioning as a verb, adjective and interjection-style noun, but you can't say precisely what you mean with it

I think the script-writers of The Wire might disagree. If you've seen Season 1 Episode 4, you'll know what I mean. Only about 3 different words of dialogue used ... but they convey all the thoughts perfectly. Brilliant use of language ... but not a family-friendly scene, by any measure.