CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Discussion and announcements relating to unofficial Countdown competitions, held online or in real life. Observation, discussion, reflection, and other stuff ending in -ion.
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Fiona T
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CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Countdown is returning to Reading in 2024! This event will be part of the FOCAL calendar.

When is it?

20 April 2024. Doors will open at 10:40, with the first round draw taking place shortly after. Please arrive before 11:00.

Where is it?

Hemdean House School Hall - a 20 minute walk from Reading station (use the Caversham exit)

Reading is 20 minutes on the train from Paddington, 25 minutes from Oxford, an hour from Bristol, and less than 90 minutes from Birmingham. Even Exeter can be done in less than two hours! There is plenty of free parking available on the school site. The venue is fully wheelchair accessible.

Map

What will I be doing?

Keeping with the traditional format of Reading events, you will be playing 15 round games in 'Bristol' style, where everyone plays the same selections in pairs, with each pair choosing their preferred numbers round format. Game presentation will be using a shiny new purpose built tool - no more switching between spreadsheets and powerpoint! We should be able to fit in at least six games, then the top two players will face each other in a grand final.


The first round will be drawn randomly, but don't worry if you have a bumpy start - for the remaining games you will be playing opponents that have scored similarly to you, so everyone should get some good, well matched games. The primary aim is to have fun!

What about lunch?

You can bring a packed lunch, or there are plenty of local shops in Caversham village, including a very nice vegan cafe! Tea and coffee will be available at the venue - if you do have a travel mug, bring it along.


And after?

I've made a group booking at ZeroDegrees. Please let me know if you'd like to join us for food. For those who want to make a weekend of it, there is plenty to do in Reading including escape rooms, climbing walls, and plenty of pubs, shops and restaurants.

I'm in - what do I do?

The entry fee is £12. Paypal is preferred. https://www.paypal.me/FionaTitcombe/12GBP. If you can't pay via paypal, then please contact me to make alternative arrangements. Please ensure you select the family and friends option.

Please note your name will be added to the attendees list below and on facebook. If you would prefer for this not to happen, please let us know when you sign up.

Any questions, please contact me and I'll do my best to help.

Look forward to seeing you there!

At time of writing, Novotel is £150 for 2 nights for a room that sleeps 3
EasyHotel is £115 for 2 nights for a double room

fb link - https://www.facebook.com/events/8536351 ... _tab=about

We want everyone to enjoy the event and have a good time. All attendees or organisers of FOCAL events are bound by the FOCAL Code of Conduct regarding respect for boundaries, respect for opponents and fair play. Any breaches of the Code of Conduct can be discussed in confidence with Fiona or any member of the Focal committee.

Confirmed entrants (48 (+3) - full and some!)

Phil Stanton
MSR
James Robinson
Darren Godfrey
Lju Laz
Martyn Pegram
Mike Lee
Adam Dexter
Ben Leyburn
Catriona Cappleman
Dave Cappleman
Tom Cappleman
Ruth Cappleman
Nicki Sellars
Jack Hurst
Suzy Turner
Dave Ryan
Sean Fletcher
Dave Robjohns
Adam Beach
Neil Collins
Maire Bennett
Graeme Cole
Jo Bartram
Archie Rodger
Adrian Fletcher
Graham Harding
Helen Harding
Richard Priest
Adam Latchford
Coral Heath
Last Ashwin Hero
Ellen Harrison
Mauro Pratesi
Jessica Pratesi
Thomas Carey
Dan Byrom
Tom Stevenson
Pete Borrett
Toby Byfield
Steve Hyde
Tim Hebbes
Mike Springett
Paul Talmey
Jonathan DeSouza
Rob Foster
Eeshan Malhotra
Daniyaal Ali
Andy Evans
Tim Down
Matthew Brockwell
Last edited by Fiona T on Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:52 pm, edited 34 times in total.
JackHurst
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Pretty excited about this. With 15 rounders and a decent letters algorithm this is going to be the most realistic co event I can recall. 😎
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Yep, I really enjoyed the 15R at MSO - will be keen to hear feedback (good or bad!) after about how well it works on a bigger scale.

Thinking about trialling the A/B conundrums suggested elsewhere to allow for adjudication, and possibly different difficulty levels for top half tables after first couple of rounds.
Gavin Chipper
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Is Tony Atkins involved or is this just a separate thing from his events?
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

I checked with Tony before organising and he gave his blessing and will bring and present the traditional Reading teapot :) I didn't want to tread on anyone's toes. I'm organising and hosting and the presentation will be computer based using a new hosting tool which will hopefully allow for quicker games. But it's something afaik we haven't tried before, so be prepared for the unexpected!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Fiona T wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 10:31 pm Thinking about trialling the A/B conundrums suggested elsewhere to allow for adjudication, and possibly different difficulty levels for top half tables after first couple of rounds.
Yeah it seems like a no brainer to do this!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Gavin Chipper »

This is the day before the London Marathon by the way, so it's unfortunately not doable for me.
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:22 am This is the day before the London Marathon by the way, so it's unfortunately not doable for me.
:( We won't keep you out late! (I'm also heading to the marathon to cheer my daughter on, but I think she'll be several hours behind you!)
Gavin Chipper
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I think any travelling at all the day before might be a bit tiring, and could be a bit of a risk! Hopefully I'll see you out there in London and good luck to your daughter!
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Adam Dexter
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Adam Dexter »

Just a note to say Advance train tickets are now available - I've just booked and saved £15 woohoo
ADAM DEXTER: MAXED DATER
We're off to button moon :)
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Archie Thomas R. »

Hiya Fiona! I’m considering this event for my first, so if you get £12 from a random Rodger, don’t put their name in as an entrant as someone else is probably paying for me, I’m about 4 years too young to really pay anything online never mind PayPal.
Thanks!
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Archie Thomas R. wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:47 pm Hiya Fiona! I’m considering this event for my first, so if you get £12 from a random Rodger, don’t put their name in as an entrant as someone else is probably paying for me, I’m about 4 years too young to really pay anything online never mind PayPal.
Thanks!
Cool - will look out for it.
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Two months to go!

I've made a provisional booking for 20 people at ZeroDegrees at 6:30pm - menu available on the website, lots of dishes can be veganised!

Please let me know if you'd like to join us for dinner after

https://www.zerodegrees.co.uk/restaurants/reading/
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Fiona T wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:11 pm
Archie Thomas R. wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:47 pm Hiya Fiona! I’m considering this event for my first, so if you get £12 from a random Rodger, don’t put their name in as an entrant as someone else is probably paying for me, I’m about 4 years too young to really pay anything online never mind PayPal.
Thanks!
Cool - will look out for it.
Received thanks Archie. Just a note that you will need to bring a responsible adult to tag along!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Dave Robjohns »

In pls for the meal :)
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Phil Stanton »

Just in case anyone missed this on the FB page ...

Does anyone fancy a trip to a local climbing wall on the Friday?
Or the Sunday?
Or both?!

FRIDAY
Climbing at Parthian Climbing in Reading, some time in the afternoon, exact time to be decided.
No prior climbing experience necessary.

SUNDAY
Same as Friday, for anyone who wants to join but can't do Friday. Probably late morning I guess.

Comment here or on the FB post below if you're interested 🙂
https://www.facebook.com/events/8536351 ... 755047428/
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

We need to pre-order our food for zerodegrees - if you haven't told me you want in, then please do asap!

I've sent everyone who's said they're in a pre-order link - note that if you need vegan/GF, the options pop up when you choose a pizza!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Neil A Collins »

In for meal as well please Fiona :)
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Excited to have so many people who want to come and play Countdown in Reading, but logistic-wise I'm going to have to limit entries to 48 (currently on 48). So if you do want to play and haven't signed up yet, please let me know asap!

Edit - now full
Last edited by Fiona T on Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Co:Reading is full! 48 people is going to be a bit cosy but we'll work it out! If you do want to play and haven't signed up, please don't send me money, but drop me a message and I'll let you know if more places become available.
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

One week to go, and I'm getting excited!

A couple of things to note -

If you're arriving by train, use the CAVERSHAM (North) exit of the station. The nicest walking route is along the river - cross the road as you come out the station and there's a small road just to the right that takes you to the river and then over the footbridge. It's just over a mile, and took me 17 minutes walking fairly briskly when I did it a couple of weeks ago. See map.

If you have a travel mug, please bring it!

Good news :D Because numbers are so much higher than anticipated, you'll all be getting £2 of your entry fee back! Woop woop, don't spend it all at once! The budget has also stretched to crisps and biscuits so snacks will be available.

In order to get everyone playing comfortably in the space we've got, I've bought clipboards. There will be plenty of tables too for those who want/need them.

Look forward to seeing you all next week!

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JackHurst
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Fiona T wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:00 am In order to get everyone playing comfortably in the space we've got, I've bought clipboards. There will be plenty of tables too for those who want/need them.
Great to have so many players signed up! What's the deal going to be with conundrum buzzes? I could imagine adjucating buzzes onto separate clipboards causing quite a bit of confusion/distrust.

Fiona T wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:19 pm We should be able to fit in at least six games, then the top two players will face each other in a grand final.
Sounds like a good plan to allow flexibility to have extra games if timings allow so. Please don't leave it too late to decide the number of games. For example, if you decide after game 4 that a 7th game is possible on the day, I think this is reasonable notice as a lot can change in the leaderboard whether 2 or 3 games left. However if you were to decide after game 6 whether a 7th game is possible, this is just really unfair on whoever is in the current top 2 at that time (could imagine it making them upset and stressed), because the decision to extend the event effectively doubles as a decision on whether to accept those two players as finalists. Combine that with the fact that at this point, you probably have 46 people in the room who want the extra game and 2 who don't, you would have a bias in the room on making a decision :)
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by George Armstrong »

JackHurst wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:20 am Sounds like a good plan to allow flexibility to have extra games if timings allow so. Please don't leave it too late to decide the number of games. For example, if you decide after game 4 that a 7th game is possible on the day, I think this is reasonable notice as a lot can change in the leaderboard whether 2 or 3 games left. However if you were to decide after game 6 whether a 7th game is possible, this is just really unfair on whoever is in the current top 2 at that time (could imagine it making them upset and stressed), because the decision to extend the event effectively doubles as a decision on whether to accept those two players as finalists. Combine that with the fact that at this point, you probably have 46 people in the room who want the extra game and 2 who don't, you would have a bias in the room on making a decision :)
Fwiw a similar situation happened at Brum 22, where the decision of whether or not to play on was given to the top 2 players, who understandably said no.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

JackHurst wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:20 am
Fiona T wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:00 am In order to get everyone playing comfortably in the space we've got, I've bought clipboards. There will be plenty of tables too for those who want/need them.
Great to have so many players signed up! What's the deal going to be with conundrum buzzes? I could imagine adjucating buzzes onto separate clipboards causing quite a bit of confusion/distrust.

Fiona T wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:19 pm We should be able to fit in at least six games, then the top two players will face each other in a grand final.
Sounds like a good plan to allow flexibility to have extra games if timings allow so. Please don't leave it too late to decide the number of games. For example, if you decide after game 4 that a 7th game is possible on the day, I think this is reasonable notice as a lot can change in the leaderboard whether 2 or 3 games left. However if you were to decide after game 6 whether a 7th game is possible, this is just really unfair on whoever is in the current top 2 at that time (could imagine it making them upset and stressed), because the decision to extend the event effectively doubles as a decision on whether to accept those two players as finalists. Combine that with the fact that at this point, you probably have 46 people in the room who want the extra game and 2 who don't, you would have a bias in the room on making a decision :)


Yeah, realistically with so many people I think it's very unlikely we'll get an extra game in, but any decision would be made by lunchtime once we know how long the first couple of games take.

I'm delighted to have so many wanting to play, but it has made me nervous about keeping things moving along!

re: conundrums - should work ok I think. See how it goes on the practice one. I'm intending to do A/B so there will be an adjudicator available for each pair.
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Graeme Cole
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Graeme Cole »

Old CoRea used to have five 15-rounders and a final, with a typical attendance of less than half what this one's getting. The FOCAL Finals have seven games but they're 9-rounders. I'm not aware of any event ever fitting in seven 15-rounders and a final (even six is a lot), so colour me astonished if that happens.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Graeme Cole wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:12 pm Old CoRea used to have five 15-rounders and a final, with a typical attendance of less than half what this one's getting. The FOCAL Finals have seven games but they're 9-rounders. I'm not aware of any event ever fitting in seven 15-rounders and a final (even six is a lot), so colour me astonished if that happens.
yep really hoping we get in 6 - the new software should keep things moving more quickly, but the number of players might slow things down! But yep - dropping a round more likely than adding one, but 6 is my intention!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Great stuff today. Thanks for running the event Fiona - really well organized!

Great performances from Maus and TCap today, congrats maus for getting the win.

Because you asked for feedback - When you programmed the letters generator what were you hoping to achieve in terms of deduplication? I have some vague memory of us talking about this and was under the impression the selections would be more like the show. However anecdotally having done enough events with this software now I am pretty confident in saying it's not doing that, and this isn't down to some low probability bad luck.

This isn't a request for change necessarily. The selections today were interesting as a result of many of the duplicate letters so I didn't personally dislike it. However if your objective is to have something closer to the show, I just thought I'd point out that it's in need of some tweaks.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

So it's two separate questions. What should the software do? Is the software doing what it's supposed to do?

I suppose on the former, it's subjective. Sone people will like more duplication others won't. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. My competitive side favours more duplication, but my fun side favours less. On the basis we are here to play Countdown like the TV show I am inclined to prefer to use the technology at our disposal to try and generate the most faithful replication of the show. It's also a nice counterbalance to events with decks of cards where deduplication is not possible


As for the latter question, I suppose thats only something you can know for sure. When I get the chance I will run some simulation s to give some benchmarks from the app 😊
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Tony Atkins »

When I have watched the manual shuffle at show recordings, they have shuffled the packs face up so they can spot really silly repetitions and manually placed the Q and Z thereafter. It is quite traditional to have repetitions even with the manual shuffle of cards at COREA - who can forget the round 4 in the first even COREA game in 2012? R R R U U U B I U
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CO:Rea 20th April 2024
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Tony Atkins
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Tony Atkins »

Prize winners with 4 wins: James Robinson (482), Adrian Fletcher (489), Dan Byrom (499), Tim Down (572), Rob Foster (575 and third place). Best newcomer Martin Pegram. Highest on 3/5 Tim Hebbes. Name the software winner Steve Hyde ("RoboRiley"). Final between Tom Cappleman (4 wins 601) and Tom Carey (5 wins 576) - won by Tom Carey 97-85. Game records and recaps will be available sometime soon.
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CO:Rea 20th April 2024
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Tony Atkins »

Here are the selections for the final to keep you amused until the recaps - max is 113.

SIFILIJSI
SETONAPEH
7 8 75 25 100 50 = 255
LANAREDES
CAPARELUN
2 7 10 2 8 8 = 913
REMOCETTE
PEBIGADEG
5 2 25 100 75 50 = 343
LOXELERAY
MADOQOVTD
ROFESAWOC
NARIROHIO
9 6 5 10 4 4 = 165
HOUSPARTY (con)
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CO:Rea 20th April 2024
Fiona T
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

JackHurst wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:21 pm So it's two separate questions. What should the software do? Is the software doing what it's supposed to do?

I suppose on the former, it's subjective. Sone people will like more duplication others won't. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. My competitive side favours more duplication, but my fun side favours less. On the basis we are here to play Countdown like the TV show I am inclined to prefer to use the technology at our disposal to try and generate the most faithful replication of the show. It's also a nice counterbalance to events with decks of cards where deduplication is not possible


As for the latter question, I suppose thats only something you can know for sure. When I get the chance I will run some simulation s to give some benchmarks from the app 😊
Yeah a few people have commented on that. What the software intends to do is Algorithm 2 here

http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=208770 (although for our purposes it's the same as algorithm 1 as we reshuffle at the beginning of a game so shouldn't be getting to the end of the pack).

It's possible that it's buggy - I have checked it a number of times stepping through and it appears to do what I expect code-wise, but I will check again!

It definitely seems to have more dupes than the app, but there were maybe 3 or 4 rounds out of the 50 that seemed very daft? I will look at it again though, or if there is a better algorithm, happy to use it - definitely not my area of expertise! I could easily up the probability from 70% to 80 or even 90.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Full results here! Really pleased to have ten new players (including one that had come to watch but kindly stepped for the last two rounds to avoid the need for a prune!)

Huge congrats to Tom Carey who didn't drop a game all day, and to everyone that came along to make this a successful event. Special mention to Jessica and Mauro who put in a good shift lifting tables and chairs to help set the room up, and to Tony for helping ensure everything was left clean and tidy at the end :)

After discussion with a number of players at lunchtime, we decided to drop a round - we could have squeezed in 6 before the final, but it would have been pretty intense with no real breaks between 4 back to back games. As it was, 5 games fitted nicely, the pace felt a bit more relaxed, and the final didn't need to be rushed.

Anyway - results...!

Co:Rea 2024
Hemdean House School
20 April 2024

STANDINGS

Players are ranked by number of wins then total points scored.


P W Pts
1 Tom Carey 5 5 576 (won final)
2 Tom Cappleman 5 4 601 (lost final)
3 Rob Foster 5 4 575
4 Tim Down 5 4 572
5 Dan Byrom 5 4 563
6 Adrian Fletcher 5 4 499
7 James Robinson 5 4 482
8 Adam Dexter 5 4 473
9 Eeshan Malhotra 5 4 449
10 Paul Talmey 5 4 407
11 Jack Hurst 5 3 589
12 Matthew Brockwell 5 3 562
13 Neil Collins 5 3 525
14 Graeme Cole 5 3 493
15 Jonathan DeSouza 5 3 492
16 Richard Priest 5 3 475
17 Dave Ryan 5 3 470
18 Coral Heath 5 3 468
19 Catriona Cappleman 5 3 467
20 Sean Fletcher 5 3 442
21 Phil Stanton 5 3 439
22 Last Ashwin Hero 5 3 430
23 Suzy Turner 5 3 426
24 Adam Beach 5 3 401
25 Martyn Pegram 5 3 363
26 Tom Stevenson 5 2 560
27 Tim Hebbes 5 2 520
28 Adam Latchford 5 2 503
29 MSR 5 2 487
30 Mike Lee 5 2 482
31 Darren Godfrey 5 2 473
32 Jessica Pratesi 5 2 470
33 Toby Byfield 5 2 438
34 Jo Bartram 5 2 436
35 Andy Evans 5 2 425
36 Dave Cappleman 5 2 413
37 Graham Harding 5 2 412
38 Dave Robjohns 5 2 388
39 Ruth Cappleman 5 2 377
40 Mike Springett 5 2 365
41 Mauro Pratesi 5 2 345
42 Helen Harding 5 1 435
43 Steve Hyde 5 1 399
44 Archie Rodger 5 1 397
45 Ben Leyburn 5 1 390
46 Nicki Sellars 5 1 386
47 Daaniyal Ali 5 1 358
48 Ellen Harrison 5 1 345
49 Rachael Montgomery 3 1 225
50 Katy Bowen 2 1 142
51 Pete Borrett 5 0 269
52 Lju Laz 2 0 110
53 Maire Bennett 2 0 32


RESULTS

Round 1
Coral Heath 93 - 52 Pete Borrett
Ben Leyburn 72 - 105 Toby Byfield
Jonathan DeSouza 117 - 61 Last Ashwin Hero
Tim Down 124 - 32 Mauro Pratesi
Suzy Turner 91 - 80 Archie Rodger
Ellen Harrison 72 - 109 Jessica Pratesi
Dave Ryan 108 - 29 Martyn Pegram
Neil Collins 85 - 130 Rob Foster
Paul Talmey 74 - 72 Jo Bartram
MSR 90 - 106 Adam Dexter
Nicki Sellars 90 - 98 Adam Beach
James Robinson 55 - 114 Tim Hebbes
Steve Hyde 95 - 57 Lju Laz
Jack Hurst 120 - 43 Ruth Cappleman
Phil Stanton 100 - 21 Maire Bennett
Darren Godfrey 101 -*111 Tom Carey
Graeme Cole 74 - 98 Eeshan Malhotra
Dave Robjohns 96 - 63 Rachael Montgomery
Andy Evans 76 - 93 Catriona Cappleman
Helen Harding 83 - 91 Sean Fletcher
Dan Byrom 117 - 87 Mike Lee
Mike Springett 46 - 117 Adam Latchford
Dave Cappleman 70 - 87 Graham Harding
Tom Stevenson 109 - 119 Matthew Brockwell
Daaniyal Ali 83 - 88 Adrian Fletcher
Tom Cappleman 129 - 71 Richard Priest

Round 2
Rob Foster 105 - 123 Tom Cappleman
Tim Down 124 - 134 Jack Hurst
Matthew Brockwell 121 - 95 Jonathan DeSouza
Adam Latchford 121 - 93 Dan Byrom
Jessica Pratesi 92 - 114 Tim Hebbes
Adam Dexter 119*- 109 Dave Ryan
Tom Carey 122 - 81 Toby Byfield
Phil Stanton 82 - 66 Nicki Sellars
Eeshan Malhotra 89 - 64 Dave Robjohns
Catriona Cappleman 101 - 70 Steve Hyde
Suzy Turner 95 - 89 Coral Heath
Sean Fletcher 83 - 120 Adrian Fletcher
Graham Harding 88 - 76 Paul Talmey
Tom Stevenson 123 - 89 Darren Godfrey
Adam Beach 65 - 131 MSR
Mike Lee 100 - 131 Neil Collins
Daaniyal Ali 55 - 118 Helen Harding
Archie Rodger 85 - 96 Andy Evans
Graeme Cole 122 - 69 Ben Leyburn
Jo Bartram 113 - 53 Ellen Harrison
Richard Priest 115 - 89 Dave Cappleman
Last Ashwin Hero 89 - 82 Rachael Montgomery
Lju Laz 53 - 120 James Robinson
Pete Borrett 61 - 99 Mike Springett
Mauro Pratesi 81 - 96 Ruth Cappleman
Martyn Pegram 93 - 11 Maire Bennett

Round 3
Jack Hurst 112 - 122 Tom Cappleman
Matthew Brockwell 111 - 86 Adam Latchford
Tim Hebbes 110 - 118 Tom Carey
Adrian Fletcher 80 - 81 Adam Dexter
Catriona Cappleman 104 - 52 Eeshan Malhotra
Phil Stanton 78 - 86 Suzy Turner
Graham Harding 63 - 112 Tim Down
Rob Foster 119 - 102 Tom Stevenson
Dave Ryan 80 - 77 MSR
Jonathan DeSouza 78 - 116 Neil Collins
Dan Byrom 118 - 66 Helen Harding
Jessica Pratesi 65 - 96 Graeme Cole
Toby Byfield 68 - 102 Richard Priest
Coral Heath 112 - 63 Jo Bartram
Sean Fletcher 79 - 97 James Robinson
Andy Evans 81 - 75 Steve Hyde
Adam Beach 69 - 60 Dave Robjohns
Paul Talmey 82 - 81 Last Ashwin Hero
Ruth Cappleman 83 - 52 Mike Springett
Darren Godfrey 99 - 66 Martyn Pegram
Archie Rodger 50 - 102 Mike Lee
Nicki Sellars 56 - 91 Dave Cappleman
Rachael Montgomery 80 - 77 Ben Leyburn
Ellen Harrison 71 - 72 Daaniyal Ali
Mauro Pratesi 71 - 47 Pete Borrett

Round 4
Tom Cappleman 121 - 104 Matthew Brockwell
Tom Carey 121 - 79 Catriona Cappleman
Adam Dexter 97 - 83 Suzy Turner
Rob Foster 118 - 108 Jack Hurst
Tim Hebbes 93 - 104 Tim Down
Neil Collins 97 - 120 Dan Byrom
Adam Latchford 91 - 92 Dave Ryan
Graeme Cole 104 - 108 Coral Heath
Adrian Fletcher 98 - 89 Richard Priest
James Robinson 101 - 94 Phil Stanton
Eeshan Malhotra 109 - 85 Andy Evans
Graham Harding 80 - 93 Adam Beach
Ruth Cappleman 82 - 84 Paul Talmey
MSR 88 - 121 Tom Stevenson
Mike Lee 86 - 111 Jonathan DeSouza
Helen Harding 94 - 112 Darren Godfrey
Toby Byfield 84 - 117 Jessica Pratesi
Dave Cappleman 69 - 87 Sean Fletcher
Jo Bartram 108 - 82 Steve Hyde
Dave Robjohns 89 - 101 Last Ashwin Hero
Mike Springett 95 - 91 Daaniyal Ali
Martyn Pegram 99 - 81 Mauro Pratesi
Ben Leyburn 91 - 96 Archie Rodger
Ellen Harrison 71 - 70 Nicki Sellars
Pete Borrett 72 - 75 Katy Bowen

Round 5
Tom Carey 114 - 106 Tom Cappleman
Adam Dexter 80 - 103 Rob Foster
Matthew Brockwell 107 - 108 Tim Down
Coral Heath 66 - 115 Dan Byrom
Dave Ryan 81 - 113 Adrian Fletcher
James Robinson 109 - 90 Catriona Cappleman
Suzy Turner 71 - 101 Eeshan Malhotra
Adam Beach 76 - 91 Paul Talmey
Jack Hurst 115 - 105 Tom Stevenson
Tim Hebbes 89 - 96 Neil Collins
Jonathan DeSouza 91 - 88 Adam Latchford
Darren Godfrey 72 - 97 Graeme Cole
Richard Priest 98 - 87 Jessica Pratesi
Jo Bartram 80 - 85 Phil Stanton
Sean Fletcher 102 - 87 Andy Evans
Last Ashwin Hero 98 - 94 Graham Harding
Ruth Cappleman 73 - 76 Martyn Pegram
Mike Springett 73 - 101 MSR
Helen Harding 74 - 107 Mike Lee
Steve Hyde 77 - 100 Toby Byfield
Archie Rodger 86 - 94 Dave Cappleman
Dave Robjohns 79 - 57 Daaniyal Ali
Mauro Pratesi 80 - 78 Ellen Harrison
Katy Bowen 67 - 81 Ben Leyburn
Pete Borrett 37 - 104 Nicki Sellars

Final
Tom Carey 97 - 85 Tom Cappleman
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Graeme Cole
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Graeme Cole »

Fiona T wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:32 pm After discussion with a number of players at lunchtime, we decided to drop a round - we could have squeezed in 6 before the final, but it would have been pretty intense with no real breaks between 4 back to back games. As it was, 5 games fitted nicely, the pace felt a bit more relaxed, and the final didn't need to be rushed.
+1 to this decision. The point isn't to fit in as many rounds as possible, it's to play the appropriate number of rounds so that the pacing is right, and the event finishes on time, without too much waiting around.
Fiona T wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:23 pm
JackHurst wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:21 pm So it's two separate questions. What should the software do? Is the software doing what it's supposed to do?

I suppose on the former, it's subjective. Sone people will like more duplication others won't. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. My competitive side favours more duplication, but my fun side favours less. On the basis we are here to play Countdown like the TV show I am inclined to prefer to use the technology at our disposal to try and generate the most faithful replication of the show. It's also a nice counterbalance to events with decks of cards where deduplication is not possible


As for the latter question, I suppose thats only something you can know for sure. When I get the chance I will run some simulation s to give some benchmarks from the app 😊
Yeah a few people have commented on that. What the software intends to do is Algorithm 2 here

http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=208770 (although for our purposes it's the same as algorithm 1 as we reshuffle at the beginning of a game so shouldn't be getting to the end of the pack).

It's possible that it's buggy - I have checked it a number of times stepping through and it appears to do what I expect code-wise, but I will check again!

It definitely seems to have more dupes than the app, but there were maybe 3 or 4 rounds out of the 50 that seemed very daft? I will look at it again though, or if there is a better algorithm, happy to use it - definitely not my area of expertise! I could easily up the probability from 70% to 80 or even 90.
As Jack rightly points out, everyone's entitled to an opinion, so here's mine: there was nothing wrong with the way the letters were selected. In 50 letters rounds, there were (at least?) four nines available, and plenty of rounds had 8 as the max. There was no detrimental effect on the event.

There were a very small number of rounds with three or more of the same vowel, and maybe two or three rounds where most people only got a 4, but so what? The occasional "difficult" selection is very much part of the game. Digging out a difficult 7 from a selection with three As in it is just as legitimate a thing to test, and reward, as knowledge of high-probability stems.

Increasing the probability of re-selecting a repeated letter doesn't necessarily improve the game, it just gives the classic high-probability Apterous selections an even higher probability, making things a bit more comfortable and familiar for the strongest players at the expense of casual players. Sure, a mid-to-lower-rated player *might* appreciate the selection that allowed them to play ANCESTOR, but not if it also allowed their opponent to pull an ACTOREENS on them.

Why do we yawn when a player spots IDOLATERS and (rightly) applaud when they spot RAPADURA? It's not the obscurity of the words themselves. They're both very obscure words, with roughly the same number of hits on Google. We only think IDOLATERS is easy and RAPADURA is hard because we've seen the former so many times on Countdown and Apterous, where four distinct vowels are very common and three As are very rare.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Well having looked again at the shuffle code after not visiting for a while, I believe there is a buggette - tried a quick fix and the vowel pack didn't look significantly less dupey after it, but will investigate further when I have a bit more time.... But do agree it's not necessarily a good thing to go too mad on the dedupe !

In terms of non-software feedback - yep I was definitely going too fast on the letter picking - will make sure I slow down a bit with future events I host. I think 5 rounds fitted nicely so if I host the same format next year I'll go with that.

Cheers everyone for feedback, and for the great support for the event. I did panic slightly when signups went crazy but everyone was patient and supportive and I think it worked ok :) It really was lovely to see you all, and I think most enjoyed it! Even the dinner went well with only 1 order mistake in 31 people, and the bill settled exactly!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Fiona T wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:39 am yep I was definitely going too fast on the letter picking
Not your fault. My suggestion is lifetime bans for the people who do an all in one letters pick when it's their turn. :)
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Tim Down »

JackHurst wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:15 am
Fiona T wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:39 am yep I was definitely going too fast on the letter picking
Not your fault. My suggestion is lifetime bans for the people who do an all in one letters pick when it's their turn. :)
That just makes me want to do it even more.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Gavin Chipper »

JackHurst wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:15 am
Fiona T wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:39 am yep I was definitely going too fast on the letter picking
Not your fault. My suggestion is lifetime bans for the people who do an all in one letters pick when it's their turn. :)
The worst is when they request multiple things in one go that they expect you to remember. x consonants and y vowels is OK. But three separate things (x consonants, y vowels and z consonants) is too much. It shouldn't be a memory test!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 6:53 pm
JackHurst wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:15 am
Fiona T wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 5:39 am yep I was definitely going too fast on the letter picking
Not your fault. My suggestion is lifetime bans for the people who do an all in one letters pick when it's their turn. :)
The worst is when they request multiple things in one go that they expect you to remember. x consonants and y vowels is OK. But three separate things (x consonants, y vowels and z consonants) is too much. It shouldn't be a memory test!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Adam S Latchford »

JackHurst wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:15 am

Not your fault. My suggestion is lifetime bans for the people who do an all in one letters pick when it's their turn. :)
6 consonants and 3 vowels immediately is the only acceptable iteration of all the letters at once

CV9 is punishable by permaban
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Adam S Latchford wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:39 am
JackHurst wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:15 am

Not your fault. My suggestion is lifetime bans for the people who do an all in one letters pick when it's their turn. :)
6 consonants and 3 vowels immediately is the only acceptable iteration of all the letters at once

CV9 is punishable by permaban
Surely 5 and 4.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Tony Atkins »

The game records are now on the CO:REA website at http://www.kisekigo.com/cd/corea24games.pdf

Image
Top three and Fiona.

Image
The final: Tom v Tom.
CO-MSO every August
CO:Rea 20th April 2024
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Thanks Tony!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Re - dedupe. Yeah it was fubared. Not sure how I thought it was working, but is now fixed!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by JackHurst »

Some absolutely batshit crazy final standings from this event
https://greem.co.uk/cgi-bin/colive/tour ... =CoRea2024

Helen Harding 87 pts per game 42nd Place
Paul Talmey 81 pts per game 10th Place

Tom Stevenson 112 pts per game 26th Place
Martyn Pegram 73 pts per game 25th Place
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Neil A Collins »

We may need to find another venue for next year - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-68863876
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Thomas Cappleman »

JackHurst wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:54 am Some absolutely batshit crazy final standings from this event
https://greem.co.uk/cgi-bin/colive/tour ... =CoRea2024

Helen Harding 87 pts per game 42nd Place
Paul Talmey 81 pts per game 10th Place

Tom Stevenson 112 pts per game 26th Place
Martyn Pegram 73 pts per game 25th Place
With a large field like we had, we were only just starting to get higher scoring players playing lower scoring ones. So was a good opportunity for some to pile on some wins with some smaller scores, though still probably very close games for them.
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Yeah I think that was the main downside of dropping a round - five rounds isn't really going to get a true reflection, but as Maus illustrated, you just gotta win your games! :)
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

Neil A Collins wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:15 am We may need to find another venue for next year - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-68863876
Nooo! That is a real pain - venue actually worked very well in the end!

I wonder how many non-locals would attend if we host in Tony's venue in Woodley (about 3 miles from Reading - nice parkrun!)

And I'd best ask for my deposit back pronto!!
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Andres Sanchez »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:04 am
Adam S Latchford wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:39 am
JackHurst wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 8:15 am

Not your fault. My suggestion is lifetime bans for the people who do an all in one letters pick when it's their turn. :)
6 consonants and 3 vowels immediately is the only acceptable iteration of all the letters at once

CV9 is punishable by permaban
Surely 5 and 4.
As someone that likes CV5, I say we can let CV5 and 4 slide
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Tony Atkins »

And the answers to all the rounds are now up at http://www.kisekigo.com/cd/corea24recaps.pdf
CO-MSO every August
CO:Rea 20th April 2024
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Fiona T »

JackHurst wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:54 am Some absolutely batshit crazy final standings from this event
https://greem.co.uk/cgi-bin/colive/tour ... =CoRea2024

Helen Harding 87 pts per game 42nd Place
Paul Talmey 81 pts per game 10th Place

Tom Stevenson 112 pts per game 26th Place
Martyn Pegram 73 pts per game 25th Place
If we sort by points instead of wins, there's some crazy differences!


1 2 Tom Cappleman 5 4 601 1
2 11 Jack Hurst 5 3 589 9
3 1 Tom Carey 5 5 576 -2
4 3 Rob Foster 5 4 575 -1
5 4 Tim Down 5 4 572 -1
6 5 Dan Byrom 5 4 563 -1
7 12 Matthew Brockwell 5 3 562 5
8 26 Tom Stevenson 5 2 560 18
9 13 Neil Collins 5 3 525 4
10 27 Tim Hebbes 5 2 520 17
11 28 Adam Latchford 5 2 503 17
12 6 Adrian Fletcher 5 4 499 -6
13 14 Graeme Cole 5 3 493 1
14 15 Jonathan DeSouza 5 3 492 1
15 29 MSR 5 2 487 14
16 7 James Robinson 5 4 482 -9
17 30 Mike Lee 5 2 482 13
18 16 Richard Priest 5 3 475 -2
19 8 Adam Dexter 5 4 473 -11
20 31 Darren Godfrey 5 2 473 11
21 17 Dave Ryan 5 3 470 -4
22 32 Jessica Pratesi 5 2 470 10
23 18 Coral Heath 5 3 468 -5
24 19 Catriona Cappleman 5 3 467 -5
25 9 Eeshan Malhotra 5 4 449 -16
26 20 Sean Fletcher 5 3 442 -6
27 21 Phil Stanton 5 3 439 -6
28 33 Toby Byfield 5 2 438 5
29 34 Jo Bartram 5 2 436 5
30 42 Helen Harding 5 1 435 12
31 22 Last Ashwin Hero 5 3 430 -9
32 23 Suzy Turner 5 3 426 -9
33 35 Andy Evans 5 2 425 2
34 36 Dave Cappleman 5 2 413 2
35 37 Graham Harding 5 2 412 2
36 10 Paul Talmey 5 4 407 -26
37 24 Adam Beach 5 3 401 -13
38 43 Steve Hyde 5 1 399 5
39 44 Archie Rodger 5 1 397 5
40 45 Ben Leyburn 5 1 390 5
41 38 Dave Robjohns 5 2 388 -3
42 46 Nicki Sellars 5 1 386 4
43 39 Ruth Cappleman 5 2 377 -4
44 40 Mike Springett 5 2 365 -4
45 25 Martyn Pegram 5 3 363 -20
46 47 Daaniyal Ali 5 1 358 1
47 41 Mauro Pratesi 5 2 345 -6
48 48 Ellen Harrison 5 1 345 0
49 51 Pete Borrett 5 0 269 2
50 49 Rachael Montgomery 3 1 225 -1
51 50 Katy Bowen 2 1 142 -1
52 52 Lju Laz 2 0 110 0
53 53 Maire Bennett 2 0 32 0
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Adam S Latchford »

Fiona T wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:59 pm
JackHurst wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:54 am Some absolutely batshit crazy final standings from this event
https://greem.co.uk/cgi-bin/colive/tour ... =CoRea2024

Helen Harding 87 pts per game 42nd Place
Paul Talmey 81 pts per game 10th Place

Tom Stevenson 112 pts per game 26th Place
Martyn Pegram 73 pts per game 25th Place
If we sort by points instead of wins, there's some crazy differences!


1 2 Tom Cappleman 5 4 601 1
2 11 Jack Hurst 5 3 589 9
3 1 Tom Carey 5 5 576 -2
4 3 Rob Foster 5 4 575 -1
5 4 Tim Down 5 4 572 -1
6 5 Dan Byrom 5 4 563 -1
7 12 Matthew Brockwell 5 3 562 5
8 26 Tom Stevenson 5 2 560 18
9 13 Neil Collins 5 3 525 4
10 27 Tim Hebbes 5 2 520 17
11 28 Adam Latchford 5 2 503 17
12 6 Adrian Fletcher 5 4 499 -6
13 14 Graeme Cole 5 3 493 1
14 15 Jonathan DeSouza 5 3 492 1
15 29 MSR 5 2 487 14
16 7 James Robinson 5 4 482 -9
17 30 Mike Lee 5 2 482 13
18 16 Richard Priest 5 3 475 -2
19 8 Adam Dexter 5 4 473 -11
20 31 Darren Godfrey 5 2 473 11
21 17 Dave Ryan 5 3 470 -4
22 32 Jessica Pratesi 5 2 470 10
23 18 Coral Heath 5 3 468 -5
24 19 Catriona Cappleman 5 3 467 -5
25 9 Eeshan Malhotra 5 4 449 -16
26 20 Sean Fletcher 5 3 442 -6
27 21 Phil Stanton 5 3 439 -6
28 33 Toby Byfield 5 2 438 5
29 34 Jo Bartram 5 2 436 5
30 42 Helen Harding 5 1 435 12
31 22 Last Ashwin Hero 5 3 430 -9
32 23 Suzy Turner 5 3 426 -9
33 35 Andy Evans 5 2 425 2
34 36 Dave Cappleman 5 2 413 2
35 37 Graham Harding 5 2 412 2
36 10 Paul Talmey 5 4 407 -26
37 24 Adam Beach 5 3 401 -13
38 43 Steve Hyde 5 1 399 5
39 44 Archie Rodger 5 1 397 5
40 45 Ben Leyburn 5 1 390 5
41 38 Dave Robjohns 5 2 388 -3
42 46 Nicki Sellars 5 1 386 4
43 39 Ruth Cappleman 5 2 377 -4
44 40 Mike Springett 5 2 365 -4
45 25 Martyn Pegram 5 3 363 -20
46 47 Daaniyal Ali 5 1 358 1
47 41 Mauro Pratesi 5 2 345 -6
48 48 Ellen Harrison 5 1 345 0
49 51 Pete Borrett 5 0 269 2
50 49 Rachael Montgomery 3 1 225 -1
51 50 Katy Bowen 2 1 142 -1
52 52 Lju Laz 2 0 110 0
53 53 Maire Bennett 2 0 32 0
Its an interesting comparison but for sure the other table makes way more sense. Focal can count this for points if they want tho
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Re: CO:Rea - 20 April 2024

Post by Neil A Collins »

Fiona T wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:59 pm
JackHurst wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:54 am Some absolutely batshit crazy final standings from this event
https://greem.co.uk/cgi-bin/colive/tour ... =CoRea2024

Helen Harding 87 pts per game 42nd Place
Paul Talmey 81 pts per game 10th Place

Tom Stevenson 112 pts per game 26th Place
Martyn Pegram 73 pts per game 25th Place
If we sort by points instead of wins, there's some crazy differences!


1 2 Tom Cappleman 5 4 601 1
2 11 Jack Hurst 5 3 589 9
3 1 Tom Carey 5 5 576 -2
4 3 Rob Foster 5 4 575 -1
5 4 Tim Down 5 4 572 -1
6 5 Dan Byrom 5 4 563 -1
7 12 Matthew Brockwell 5 3 562 5
8 26 Tom Stevenson 5 2 560 18
9 13 Neil Collins 5 3 525 4
10 27 Tim Hebbes 5 2 520 17
11 28 Adam Latchford 5 2 503 17
12 6 Adrian Fletcher 5 4 499 -6
13 14 Graeme Cole 5 3 493 1
14 15 Jonathan DeSouza 5 3 492 1
15 29 MSR 5 2 487 14
16 7 James Robinson 5 4 482 -9
17 30 Mike Lee 5 2 482 13
18 16 Richard Priest 5 3 475 -2
19 8 Adam Dexter 5 4 473 -11
20 31 Darren Godfrey 5 2 473 11
21 17 Dave Ryan 5 3 470 -4
22 32 Jessica Pratesi 5 2 470 10
23 18 Coral Heath 5 3 468 -5
24 19 Catriona Cappleman 5 3 467 -5
25 9 Eeshan Malhotra 5 4 449 -16
26 20 Sean Fletcher 5 3 442 -6
27 21 Phil Stanton 5 3 439 -6
28 33 Toby Byfield 5 2 438 5
29 34 Jo Bartram 5 2 436 5
30 42 Helen Harding 5 1 435 12
31 22 Last Ashwin Hero 5 3 430 -9
32 23 Suzy Turner 5 3 426 -9
33 35 Andy Evans 5 2 425 2
34 36 Dave Cappleman 5 2 413 2
35 37 Graham Harding 5 2 412 2
36 10 Paul Talmey 5 4 407 -26
37 24 Adam Beach 5 3 401 -13
38 43 Steve Hyde 5 1 399 5
39 44 Archie Rodger 5 1 397 5
40 45 Ben Leyburn 5 1 390 5
41 38 Dave Robjohns 5 2 388 -3
42 46 Nicki Sellars 5 1 386 4
43 39 Ruth Cappleman 5 2 377 -4
44 40 Mike Springett 5 2 365 -4
45 25 Martyn Pegram 5 3 363 -20
46 47 Daaniyal Ali 5 1 358 1
47 41 Mauro Pratesi 5 2 345 -6
48 48 Ellen Harrison 5 1 345 0
49 51 Pete Borrett 5 0 269 2
50 49 Rachael Montgomery 3 1 225 -1
51 50 Katy Bowen 2 1 142 -1
52 52 Lju Laz 2 0 110 0
53 53 Maire Bennett 2 0 32 0
Now do raw scores 😂😂
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