Eurovision 2023

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:41 am

It's all over the news today.

https://eurovision.tv/tickets

Sorely tempted as it's my 60th birthday in May
Interested that they do a rehearsal the day before for the jury and a family one on the day

Dave Robjohns · Post by **Dave Robjohns** » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:23 pm

I'm slightly surprised they're still bothering having 3 shows for the semi final, given there will now be no jury vote in those. I guess it's still useful practice for acts + camera crew etc and perhaps most importantly a chance to make some money back. And I kinda want to go to one of those more than the real thing just because of the fake results part

Dan Byrom · Post by **Dan Byrom** » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:26 pm

Apparently this is the UK's entry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRaVGKk4k6k

I strongly dislike it. Generic and boring, not much character, feeling or musical interest.

I tend to be at odds with the general public (I still haven't gotten over Italy beating France in 2021) and perhaps most people won't dislike this one as much as me, but I don't think it's controversial to suggest that this is a significant step backwards from last year's genuinely fantastic entry.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:48 pm

Yeah, it's rubbish.

Tom S · Post by **Tom S** » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:10 am

Reckon it will pick up some votes....

Don't think the quality this year is overly strong. Rate the Dutch, Finnish, Icelandic entries, and Austria's satirical take on the music industry.

Albania and Serbia at the bottom of my rankings so far.

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:30 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:48 pm Yeah, it's rubbish.

It will probably get top 3 then

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:27 pm

I ranked all the songs. Go watch. https://youtu.be/X-C809dj8TE

Mark James · Post by **Mark James** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:25 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:27 pm I ranked all the songs. Go watch. https://youtu.be/X-C809dj8TE

I think there's a tv show that's gonna do that based on how popular the songs are across the whole of Europe.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:31 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:27 pm I ranked all the songs. Go watch. https://youtu.be/X-C809dj8TE

Just did. It's a bit difficult to get that much of a feel for them with just short clips (most did nothing for me), but it will be interesting to see how well this predicts the finishing order. Nice bit of F1 music in there as well.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:06 pm

Not a prediction, merely my own preferences of the songs.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Tue May 09, 2023 8:20 pm

Predictions for this semi:

Norway, Malta, Serbia, Portugal, Switzerland, Israel, Moldova, Sweden, Czechia, Finland

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Tue May 09, 2023 9:10 pm

9/10 for me.

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Wed May 10, 2023 7:39 am

Coronation year.
Wyominee to win.
If you wasn't sure if I was deluded before then there's no doubt now

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Wed May 10, 2023 8:04 am

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:39 am Coronation year.
Wyominee to win.
If you wasn't sure if I was deluded before then there's no doubt now

Is that a country?

Edit - Oh I see. It's French.

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Thu May 11, 2023 5:28 pm

The Greek Kid may win this

Dave Robjohns · Post by **Dave Robjohns** » Thu May 11, 2023 8:04 pm

Thinking Armenia, Estonia, Belgium, Cyprus, Poland, Slovenia, Georgia, Austria, Lithuania, Australia today.

Like Denmark also, but think Albania/Greece probs most likely to sneak into that list if any are wrong, maybe in place of Estonia/Georgia who are more jury songs although two of my faves! Greece & Cyprus already have 24 points guaranteed so that helps!!

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Fri May 12, 2023 11:19 am

I'm hoping to get to see it on Saturday. I don't understand the appeal of the semi-finals - doesn't that just dilute it all and spoil the surprise? Clearly not for many it seems!

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Fri May 12, 2023 2:20 pm

Austria are my favourites to win with their crazy EAP song.
I also think Poland entry is quite catchy
Cyprus is good too but its probably Ukraine again

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri May 12, 2023 3:47 pm

I worked down the list of entries in order of favouriteness on oddschecker down to about 7th or 8th and was generally disappointed. They're mostly pretty weak.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Fri May 12, 2023 3:49 pm

Ian Volante wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:19 am I'm hoping to get to see it on Saturday. I don't understand the appeal of the semi-finals - doesn't that just dilute it all and spoil the surprise? Clearly not for many it seems!

Yeah I tend to agree. I have listened to some of the songs but I don't normally. I wouldn't sit through the whole semi-finals though.

Adam S Latchford · Post by **Adam S Latchford** » Fri May 12, 2023 4:33 pm

Austria and Poland my two favourites.
Thought lithuania was good
Think Slovenia will do well too.
Quite a weak year imo!

Dave Robjohns · Post by **Dave Robjohns** » Fri May 12, 2023 5:53 pm

Agree it's a weak year - although plus point is it's more unpredictable than normal! Last few have had obvious winners. I've been about 98% sure Loreen would win since February but gradually starting to doubt that

Dan Byrom · Post by **Dan Byrom** » Sat May 13, 2023 5:16 am

I've listened to the UK entry but otherwise will always wait until the night and have a lot of fun building my own rankings.

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Sat May 13, 2023 8:47 am

Not sure what the bookies know that we don’t but the UK has been absolutely tanking in the last week or so. They’re now favourite to be last (surely that’ll be Spain?).

In fairness Mae’s rehearsals have been pretty rubbish, although I’m told she was better last night.

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Sat May 13, 2023 12:22 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:47 am Not sure what the bookies know that we don’t but the UK has been absolutely tanking in the last week or so. They’re now favourite to be last (surely that’ll be Spain?).

In fairness Mae’s rehearsals have been pretty rubbish, although I’m told she was better last night.

Isn't last nights performance what the jury vote on?

Dave Robjohns · Post by **Dave Robjohns** » Sat May 13, 2023 1:16 pm

Yep last night was the jury final, absolutely the most important one to nail vocally and I'm pretty sure a few acts were saving themselves for it - but apparently Alessandra (Norway) missed her big whistle note having hit it in the first 4 shows

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sat May 13, 2023 5:34 pm

I find it slightly weird that it isn't all based off the main performance. So much so that it would be filed as a bug report rather than a feature request.

Dave Robjohns · Post by **Dave Robjohns** » Sat May 13, 2023 7:18 pm

Also quite weird now they’ve split the jury and televote points into two separate totals, that the spokespeople announce e.g. “Greece’s 12 points go to…” on the opinions of 5 people rather than the opinion of the thousands of voters. Made more sense to have a spokesperson when it was combined

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sat May 13, 2023 8:04 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:47 pm I worked down the list of entries in order of favouriteness on oddschecker down to about 7th or 8th and was generally disappointed. They're mostly pretty weak.

Poland wasn't in this list but it's much better than most of the ones that were. Eurovision voting/odds is weird.

My favourite two are Austria and Poland out of the first 10. Then maybe Sweden. But it's not the God-tier song people are making it out to be.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sat May 13, 2023 8:27 pm

If it has to be Sweden or Finland I'm all in on Finland.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sat May 13, 2023 11:06 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:27 pm If it has to be Sweden or Finland I'm all in on Finland.

Shame. Finland would have been a good winner. The Swedish song seemed a bit pretentious and took itself too seriously.

Dave Robjohns · Post by **Dave Robjohns** » Sat May 13, 2023 11:22 pm

Nice to have a final where there was actual doubt on who had the win until the very end! This points system does close results very well

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Sun May 14, 2023 5:57 am

Dave Robjohns wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 11:22 pm Nice to have a final where there was actual doubt on who had the win until the very end! This points system does close results very well

Great disparity between the professional and audience juries

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sun May 14, 2023 10:20 am

I think using juries at all seems a bit antiquated.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Sun May 14, 2023 12:37 pm

Some people liked Norway's entry but I couldn't take it seriously because I just saw it as a rehashing of Lucky, Lucky, Lucky Me.

Dan Byrom · Post by **Dan Byrom** » Sun May 14, 2023 7:14 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 10:20 am I think using juries at all seems a bit antiquated.

The public's vote might as well be random. The jury means there's a chance that musicianship can still be a factor in the outcome. (E.g. look at the amount of votes given to Croatia and Finland compared with e.g. Estonia, Austria, Australia).

Although I guess some might argue that that objective is not just to choose the best music - rather capturing lots of other things like public appeal, visuals, quirkiness etc.

Dan Byrom · Post by **Dan Byrom** » Sun May 14, 2023 7:30 pm

Time for Dan's OFFICIAL rankings

- My overall verdict of this year is that is that, although there were fewer outstanding songs, there were more decent songs and fewer pieces of trash, so I'd say a good year in general. I can at least understand the Swedish victory, even if I wouldn't have gone for it myself. Finland getting second place is a travesty. Austria coming only 15th is even more of a travesty. But over time I'm learning that there will always be at least one every year so time to forgive and forget. (Although I still haven't gotten over Italy beating France in 2021)

----- Excellent -----
1. Austria (a clear winner for me - upbeat, fun, catchy, musically interesting, the only song I could actually remember after the show, despite it being first)
2. Australia (exciting blend of genres, unique, musically interesting)
----- Good -----
3. Estonia
4. Belgium
5. Moldova
6. Cyprus
7. Italy
8. Czechia,
9. Sweden
10. Serbia
11. France
12. Norway
----- Meh -----
13. Portugal
14. Switzerland
15. Israel
16. Armenia
----- Not great but at least unique -----
17. Spain
18. Ukraine
19. Germany
20. Finland
----- Just bad and generic -----
21. UK
22. Slovenia
23. Albania
24. Lithuania
25. Poland
26. Croatia

Rhys Benjamin · Post by **Rhys Benjamin** » Sun May 14, 2023 8:20 pm

Thoroughly recommend the Eurovision mosh pit. I Wrote A Song was an experience.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Mon May 15, 2023 8:34 am

Austria was a definite favourite of mine, but I think maybe what was good about it didn't necessarily come across that well in the actual performance, so I'm not surprised it didn't do that well overall.

Finland would have been a worthy winner for me. I can see that Dan didn't like it, but basically none of the songs would stand up in the "real world" as music you'd listen to, and Finland's entry was fun, memorable and charismatic. And as I think I said, Sweden's effort was pretentious, took itself too seriously and ultimately was like a million other songs.

I rated Poland highly because it was probably objectively the most catchy tune. Fairly bland and generic as far as music goes generally, but very few songs were any good and most of them were ultimately forgettable. They just had weird staging and stuff in a desperate grab for points. Also the UK's entry was more catchy than most.

In my house, there were four people watching Eurovision and we gave scores out of 10. The top 3 totals were Finland, Poland, Moldova (I was in the minority on Austria). But Moldova came across to me like ChatGPT had attempted to write a Eurovision winner. And the recorder bit (or whatever the instrument was) seemed like a rip-off of Ukraine's entry from last year.

Baffled that Lithuania came second in the UK's public vote and third in the jury vote. The song was a nothing. Some stuff I don't agree with (e.g. Sweden winning). Other stuff I just don't understand (e.g. the UK liking Lithuania).

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Mon May 15, 2023 10:58 am

Did anyone else feel that it's a little convenient for Sweden to win when next year will be the 50th anniversary of ABBA winning?

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Mon May 15, 2023 12:00 pm

Dan Byrom wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 7:30 pm ----- Not great but at least unique -----
19. Germany

It might appear unique to you, but this might as well have been track nine on an unremarkable nu-metal/industrial album of 2010, the sort of song that's churned out endlessly by unremarkable bands of the genre. If such a track is going to succeed outside its own natural home, it needs more than nice costumes and low-level shock value.

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Mon May 15, 2023 12:02 pm

Marc Meakin wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:58 am Did anyone else feel that it's a little convenient for Sweden to win when next year will be the 50th anniversary of ABBA winning?

A fix you think? I doubt it. It doesn't surprise me that that song won. If there was some conspiracy theory about the Lithuania entry being a Tory donor, I'd be well onboard with that one, however.

Tom S · Post by **Tom S** » Mon May 15, 2023 12:55 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 8:34 am Baffled that Lithuania came second in the UK's public vote and third in the jury vote. The song was a nothing. Some stuff I don't agree with (e.g. Sweden winning). Other stuff I just don't understand (e.g. the UK liking Lithuania).

The Lithuania vote was diaspora. With the exception of last year, at pretty much every given opportunity within the last 10 years, the UK (and Irish) public has awarded Lithuania 12 points. Their act this year also got the UK public's 12 in the semi-final.So, it's frankly unheard of for the UK public to award their 12 to another country (Finland, this year). Given that this year's final was the most watched of all time in the UK, it really goes to show how much of an impact the Finnish song must have made. Nonetheless, an impact (at least positive) was not made on the UK jury, because, on average, it was ranked 20th by each juror. Having been in the arena on Saturday, it was firmly the crowd's favourite (excluding the UK).

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Mon May 15, 2023 3:14 pm

Do we have a lot of Lithuanians in this country?

Dan Byrom · Post by **Dan Byrom** » Mon May 15, 2023 4:39 pm

Ian Volante wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 12:00 pm
Dan Byrom wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 7:30 pm ----- Not great but at least unique -----
19. Germany
It might appear unique to you, but this might as well have been track nine on an unremarkable nu-metal/industrial album of 2010, the sort of song that's churned out endlessly by unremarkable bands of the genre. If such a track is going to succeed outside its own natural home, it needs more than nice costumes and low-level shock value.

1. Fair. Not so familiar with metal bar a few random songs I've found that I happen to like.

2. I've also listened back to Finland's entry and to be honest I'm even more bewildered by it's success. For anyone who liked it, is it purely just the singer, energy and entertainment value? Or did you actually enjoy the music?

3. Also, I think one reason I put Austria so high in my ranking is for one specific chord. They sing po po po po po po po po po po po po po po po edgar allen edgar allen and these two edgar allens have dissonance (two notes next to each other) which really gets me going! (And it's so rare in popular music!) Also the rhythm and tempo were really nice. But on reflection the singing was not of the highest quality. Sweden for example had a lot more polish.

4. I wonder how my experience of watching compares with those who already have an impression of the odds before the event? (i.e. maybe I would be less gobsmacked by Finland for example)

5. Sometimes I can be very blunt/critical with my musical opinions. Obviously everyone is entitled to enjoy whatever they find enjoyable so please don't let some random guy who doesn't have the same taste as you stop you from enjoying anything

6. Despite my usual tone of incredulity and pessimism after a eurovision, I do still love it!

Gavin Chipper · Post by **Gavin Chipper** » Mon May 15, 2023 5:31 pm

Dan Byrom wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 4:39 pm 2. I've also listened back to Finland's entry and to be honest I'm even more bewildered by it's success. For anyone who liked it, is it purely just the singer, energy and entertainment value? Or did you actually enjoy the music?

Well, I think I mentioned this above, but you have to apply different standards to Eurovision songs from songs in "real life". It's not just that there's a global reduction in standards but you're looking for different things. If I heard Tattoo by Loreen on the radio having never heard it before, I wouldn't think that much of it and I'd get on with my day. If I heard the Finnish entry, I'd likely think "WTF is this shit?" So yeah, I didn't think it was a brilliant song just as a song in its own right, but it was certainly listenable to. And it was generally enjoyable. But if I was just judging them on being songs, almost all of them were awful.

But I would wonder what you liked about quite a few of your top choices. You had Belgium 4th, and to me that was just a bad attempt at a fairly generic pop song with no particular charm. Forgettable. So that's why I find it strange that you had Poland 2nd last. It was a bit unambitious in that was was just a catchy pop song, but it was catchy and just better than the Belgian effort. Estonia was 3rd in your list, and it was quite "nice" I suppose, but ultimately a bit bland and forgettable. You're not going to have it in your head the next day. And Australia in your 2nd place seemed to have some of the ingredients, but as a song/tune I just don't think it was that good. It didn't seem to quite find what it was looking for. I've already covered Moldova (5th in your list). Quite nice but it looked and sounded like ChatGPT tried to create a Eurovision winner, ripping off Ukraine's winning entry last year in the process.

Ultimately there were very few that stood out in any way. One that did was Finland and it came 2nd. Another was Sweden, and that won. Austria could have stood out but didn't the way it was staged/performed.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Tue May 16, 2023 11:45 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 3:14 pm Do we have a lot of Lithuanians in this country?

About 150,000, although they may be more strongly motivated to vote than the Poles, who are at around 700,000. They're the largest former Soviet national group.

Ian Volante · Post by **Ian Volante** » Tue May 16, 2023 11:52 am

Dan Byrom wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 4:39 pm 2. I've also listened back to Finland's entry and to be honest I'm even more bewildered by it's success. For anyone who liked it, is it purely just the singer, energy and entertainment value? Or did you actually enjoy the music?

To my mind, it was very much tailored to the competition rather than being a good song as such; however, I did like the hard techno sound it had (especially in the first half of the song), even if it was generally a bit bollocks.

And to counter Gev, I quite liked the Belgium song, whereas for example Estonia's was utterly unmemorable to me. Spain I thought was one of the best, with its Phrygian scale rather than the usual western melodic sensibility. This was always going to be its downfall though, the western ear is always going to find it hard to warm to a less familiar sound like this on one listen.

Marc Meakin · Post by **Marc Meakin** » Tue May 16, 2023 3:34 pm

It's interesting to think of how many Eurovision winners would have had hits with their songs if they weren't Eurovision winners.
I think maybe Johnny Logan and probably Bucks Fizz and Brotherhood of Man but I'm not sure of any others.
Even Waterloo may not have been a big hit in the seventies tbh but it's not easy to be objective here

Dan Byrom · Post by **Dan Byrom** » Fri May 19, 2023 7:57 am

Gavin Chipper wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 5:31 pm
Dan Byrom wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 4:39 pm 2. I've also listened back to Finland's entry and to be honest I'm even more bewildered by it's success. For anyone who liked it, is it purely just the singer, energy and entertainment value? Or did you actually enjoy the music?
But I would wonder what you liked about quite a few of your top choices. You had Belgium 4th, and to me that was just a bad attempt at a fairly generic pop song with no particular charm. Forgettable. So that's why I find it strange that you had Poland 2nd last. It was a bit unambitious in that was was just a catchy pop song, but it was catchy and just better than the Belgian effort. Estonia was 3rd in your list, and it was quite "nice" I suppose, but ultimately a bit bland and forgettable. You're not going to have it in your head the next day.

Some interesting points here. Had a listen back to Poland again and I just can't stand it. Not a fan of the reggae off-beat chords in general. It was slow. It was predictable and boring. Surprised I didn't put them last but I guess Croatia was there.

Belgium's might be generic of a certain genre but at least it had some energy, some rhythm, some harmonic interest. But I would probably put any other song of the same vibe/genre above any similar to Poland.

Regarding Estonia, perhaps I've been swooned by the piano. But on another listen today, I disagree about it being bland and forgettable (at least relative to Eurovision) - I felt the song was good and the singer was excellent. It had some interesting chords/harmony which I find most Eurovision songs and pop songs lack in general. I can see why people would find it boring though.

Ian Volante wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 11:52 am Spain I thought was one of the best, with its Phrygian scale rather than the usual western melodic sensibility. This was always going to be its downfall though, the western ear is always going to find it hard to warm to a less familiar sound like this on one listen.

I wish I liked Spain's more. And I'm glad it was there and I like the fact they went that way. But on another listen sadly I just didn't find it that appealing. I think the simple backing music let it down more than the tune and the singing.