Politics in General

Discuss anything interesting but not remotely Countdown-related here.

Moderator: Jon O'Neill

Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Being cynical, one of my first thoughts was whether this might be used for the Southend city bid, and here it is.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

If by “used”, you mean “would make a fitting tribute for a campaign he worked tirelessly on”, then yes.

As an election junkie I think he should be honoured with a blue plaque in Basildon’s sports hall - “David Amess pretty much won the 92 election here”.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:04 pm If by “used”, you mean “would make a fitting tribute for a campaign he worked tirelessly on”, then yes.
Sure, but I don't think whether a place becomes a city or not should be in any way based on the death of a campaigner. They should use more objective criteria.

That said, I think the whole idea of city status is bit weird anyway. Presumably there are (financial?) benefits to getting city status (or they wouldn't be that bothered)? If so, I don't think it's right that there should be, just based on winning some competition to become a city. It's not as if a place winning city status suddenly has a greater need or becomes more deserving of any benefits.

Edit - I found this. To quote some of it:
They certainly won't get any tax breaks or extra powers or a pretty new square.

Prof John Beckett, who has written a book on the subject, says it has always been a "status thing".

"There never has been any privileges. It's always been a status thing, nothing more. There's nothing to stop places declaring themselves a city - Dunfermline did it."

He says the whole system "makes no sense" and it just "gives a bit of patronage to government".

But Dr Steve Musson, from the University of Reading, has been researching the economic impact of city status on the UK's eight newest cities. Preston, Newport, Stirling, Lisburn and Newry were made cities in 2002, while Brighton & Hove, Wolverhampton and Inverness gained the status in 2000.

Although the whole of the UK was enjoying an economic boom, the new cities, with the exception of Wolverhampton, outperformed their regional counterparts in terms of increasing investment and reducing unemployment.

"The other advantages, less easy to quantify, are the international exposure and the buzz created. There is an element of pride about becoming a city."
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:44 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:04 pm If by “used”, you mean “would make a fitting tribute for a campaign he worked tirelessly on”, then yes.
Sure, but I don't think whether a place becomes a city or not should be in any way based on the death of a campaigner. They should use more objective criteria.

That said, I think the whole idea of city status is bit weird anyway. Presumably there are (financial?) benefits to getting city status (or they wouldn't be that bothered)? If so, I don't think it's right that there should be, just based on winning some competition to become a city. It's not as if a place winning city status suddenly has a greater need or becomes more deserving of any benefits.

Edit - I found this. To quote some of it:
They certainly won't get any tax breaks or extra powers or a pretty new square.

Prof John Beckett, who has written a book on the subject, says it has always been a "status thing".

"There never has been any privileges. It's always been a status thing, nothing more. There's nothing to stop places declaring themselves a city - Dunfermline did it."

He says the whole system "makes no sense" and it just "gives a bit of patronage to government".

But Dr Steve Musson, from the University of Reading, has been researching the economic impact of city status on the UK's eight newest cities. Preston, Newport, Stirling, Lisburn and Newry were made cities in 2002, while Brighton & Hove, Wolverhampton and Inverness gained the status in 2000.

Although the whole of the UK was enjoying an economic boom, the new cities, with the exception of Wolverhampton, outperformed their regional counterparts in terms of increasing investment and reducing unemployment.

"The other advantages, less easy to quantify, are the international exposure and the buzz created. There is an element of pride about becoming a city."
I guess we should be grateful his anti gay marriage and anti abortion beliefs were not considered
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Phil H
Acolyte
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil H »

Johnson is incredibly bad at a lot of things, but this shows he still has some halfway decent political instincts (even if it was a bit of an open goal).
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Nimco Ali was in a support bubble with Boris and Carrie last year and apparently this is a story.

It really isn’t.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Phil H wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:57 pm Johnson is incredibly bad at a lot of things, but this shows he still has some halfway decent political instincts (even if it was a bit of an open goal).
He probably hacked my WhatsApp. I called it within about half an hour of hearing that he'd died. Not that I'm boasting. It's a bit of a niche boast - calling that Southend is going to be made a city after some guy died.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Always amazes me what inspires people to post in here compared to what doesn't. Sewage being dumped in rivers? Johnson's a-historical diatribe about the fall of Rome which practically mirrors white supremacist talking points? Nothing.

But someone pointing out that Robert Peston, who no-one likes, says something stupid. That warrants comment?
Elliott Mellor
Devotee
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Elliott Mellor »

Mark James wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:16 am Always amazes me what inspires people to post in here compared to what doesn't. Sewage being dumped in rivers? Johnson's a-historical diatribe about the fall of Rome which practically mirrors white supremacist talking points? Nothing.

But someone pointing out that Robert Peston, who no-one likes, says something stupid. That warrants comment?
It's because if someone posted here every time Boris and his cronies messed up then the forum would probably crash from overactivity.

But it's alright because Labour would have much worse if they'd been elected, right?
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

If paying more taxes is much worse , then yeah
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

In fairness, current Labour probably would be as bad. Starmer being a useless gombeen should probably get a bit mention here too.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Mark James wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:28 am In fairness, current Labour probably would be as bad. Starmer being a useless gombeen should probably get a bit mention here too.
I'm no fan of Starmer, but I think as with his predecessors, there is a big danger of people just assigning a sterotype to him and it sticking, and then the Tories win the next general election. With Starmer, it mainly seems to be that he's boring, and also there's the whole "But what does he stand for?" I was watching Frankie Boyle's New World Order the other day, and Boyle really ripped into him about being borng. I like Frankie Boyle on the whole, but here he was just being unoriginal. Is he really any more boring than your average politician? It seems to me that Boyle's just (unwittingly?) bought into the right wing media's sterotype of him. This kind of crap is why the Tories win elections.

There's far more to rip into about Boris Johnson, or indeed proabably any Tory leader ever, but unlike the left, the right are more likely to suck it up on the basis that they have a better chance of winning an election.
Paul Anderson
Enthusiast
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:18 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Paul Anderson »

I watched Frankie too, but I agreed with him. Labour have zero chance of getting elected with him at the helm. Would love to see Andy Burnham get the gig
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Paul Anderson wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:55 pm I watched Frankie too, but I agreed with him. Labour have zero chance of getting elected with him at the helm.
I think it's self-fulfilling propecy to an extent.
Would love to see Andy Burnham get the gig
Until he does something like eat a bacon sandwich while pulling a weird face.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Labour (certainly the right wing faction) can't win elections simply on not being as bad as the tories in the same way centre right democrats can win by not being as bad as the republicans in the states (and even at that they needed Trump to be perceived as uniquely bad).

But that's not Starmer's concern anyway. His agenda isn't to win it's to purge the left from the party. It was that ring wing faction of Labour that torpedoed Corbyn more than anything. I agree we shouldn't criticise him for being boring. There's far worse things than that he can be criticised for.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Probably more likely to criticise him for dropping the case against Saville when he was the head of the CPS
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Mark James wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:27 pm Labour (certainly the right wing faction) can't win elections simply on not being as bad as the tories in the same way centre right democrats can win by not being as bad as the republicans in the states (and even at that they needed Trump to be perceived as uniquely bad).

But that's not Starmer's concern anyway. His agenda isn't to win it's to purge the left from the party. It was that ring wing faction of Labour that torpedoed Corbyn more than anything. I agree we shouldn't criticise him for being boring. There's far worse things than that he can be criticised for.
I totally see your point. But when you've got the same people wheeling out the predictable stereotypes for both Corbyn and Starmer, it gets a bit tired.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Starmer is calling Boris Johnson corrupt. Why isn't he calling for his resignation? He needs to push this hard!
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:03 pm Starmer is calling Boris Johnson corrupt. Why isn't he calling for his resignation? He needs to push this hard!
The MP in question has just resigned
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Marc Meakin wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:36 pm
Gavin Chipper wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:03 pm Starmer is calling Boris Johnson corrupt. Why isn't he calling for his resignation? He needs to push this hard!
The MP in question has just resigned
Yeah, nice way out for the government. This whole episode reflects so badly on them, in particular the man at the helm. This might take the heat off but it changes nothing about what people should think. They've shown their colours often enough and this is just another example.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

The government's problem last night was the fact two issues were being confused and obfuscated.

The standards committee can, and should, be reformed. This is not that controversial. Indeed, JRM has said they're keeping this on the table but wants to bring it back to the House for a "proper" way of doing it cross-party.

The vote on Paterson's suspension may have been disputed because of compassionate grounds, given his wife's suicide. This is more controversial, but still not a cut-and-dry "corruption" story.

What the govt got wrong was conflating both issues.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Ian Hislop gave Boris Johnson and the Tories a good kicking on HIGNFY this evening. Rhys's favourite programme.
Paul Anderson
Enthusiast
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:18 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Paul Anderson »

And now John Major has weighed in. He knows plenty about this topic, so his words will have an effect hopefully
Martin Long
Acolyte
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:24 pm
Location: Redcar, UK
Contact:

Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Long »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:20 am
Mark James wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:28 am In fairness, current Labour probably would be as bad. Starmer being a useless gombeen should probably get a bit mention here too.
I'm no fan of Starmer, but I think as with his predecessors, there is a big danger of people just assigning a sterotype to him and it sticking, and then the Tories win the next general election. With Starmer, it mainly seems to be that he's boring, and also there's the whole "But what does he stand for?" I was watching Frankie Boyle's New World Order the other day, and Boyle really ripped into him about being borng. I like Frankie Boyle on the whole, but here he was just being unoriginal. Is he really any more boring than your average politician? It seems to me that Boyle's just (unwittingly?) bought into the right wing media's sterotype of him. This kind of crap is why the Tories win elections.

There's far more to rip into about Boris Johnson, or indeed proabably any Tory leader ever, but unlike the left, the right are more likely to suck it up on the basis that they have a better chance of winning an election.
I very much doubt that Frankie Boyle has bought into right wing stereotypes of politicians given he is one of the most left wing people in the country. By his own admission, he is more left wing than Noam Chomsky. His political views are far more likely to be similar to that of Mark James.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Why are the left expected to hold their nose and vote for centre, if not centre right, candidates just to beat tories or republicans. Shouldn't the likes of James O'Brien have be saying "I don't like Corbyn but we must vote Labour to defeat the Conservatives" instead of saying he would be voting lib dem. Voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us nowhere. The current Labour Party needs to be humiliated at the next election.
User avatar
Callum Todd
Series 69 Champion
Posts: 1123
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:38 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Politics in General

Post by Callum Todd »

Mark James wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:41 am Why are the left expected to hold their nose and vote for centre, if not centre right, candidates just to beat tories or republicans. Shouldn't the likes of James O'Brien have be saying "I don't like Corbyn but we must vote Labour to defeat the Conservatives" instead of saying he would be voting lib dem. Voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us nowhere. The current Labour Party needs to be humiliated at the next election.
Please forgive me if I've misunderstood you but I think the final sentence of your above comment answers the questions you pose earlier in the same comment. If you were to remodel your statement to be from the perspective of a more centrist or centre-left Labour perspective it could read:

"Why are the centre(-left) expected to hold their nose and vote for left, if not far left, candidates just to beat tories or republicans. Why should the likes of James O'Brien have be saying "I don't like Corbyn but we must vote Labour to defeat the Conservatives" instead of saying he would be voting lib dem. Voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us nowhere. The current Labour Party needs to be humiliated at the next election."
Mark Deeks wrote:Callum Todd looks like a young Ted Bundy.
Martin Long
Acolyte
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:24 pm
Location: Redcar, UK
Contact:

Re: Politics in General

Post by Martin Long »

I don't think people should be expected to vote for anyone and should vote for the party that matches their views the closest. I guess the only reason why you wouldn't do this is if you had a local candidate whose views didn't match yours but did a lot in your local area.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Martin Long wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:01 pm I don't think people should be expected to vote for anyone and should vote for the party that matches their views the closest. I guess the only reason why you wouldn't do this is if you had a local candidate whose views didn't match yours but did a lot in your local area.
It's not about being expected to vote for people, although with our terrible voting system, there are arguments for going against your favourite.

But it's more about people with a voice actively sabotaging their most realistic way of getting rid of Boris Johnson. And it's just more annoying when it's with lazy stereotypes. And claiming to be more left than Chomsky doesn't absolve Boyle from this. If he has real problems with Starmer it would be more reasonable of course - I don't actually think he should escape all criticism from the left just in case the Tories get in again.

And while people on the left and those nearer the "centre" bicker about Corbyn/Starmer etc., the Tories all stick together and win every time.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Callum Todd wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:51 am
Mark James wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:41 am Why are the left expected to hold their nose and vote for centre, if not centre right, candidates just to beat tories or republicans. Shouldn't the likes of James O'Brien have be saying "I don't like Corbyn but we must vote Labour to defeat the Conservatives" instead of saying he would be voting lib dem. Voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us nowhere. The current Labour Party needs to be humiliated at the next election.
Please forgive me if I've misunderstood you but I think the final sentence of your above comment answers the questions you pose earlier in the same comment. If you were to remodel your statement to be from the perspective of a more centrist or centre-left Labour perspective it could read:

"Why are the centre(-left) expected to hold their nose and vote for left, if not far left, candidates just to beat tories or republicans. Why should the likes of James O'Brien have be saying "I don't like Corbyn but we must vote Labour to defeat the Conservatives" instead of saying he would be voting lib dem. Voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us nowhere. The current Labour Party needs to be humiliated at the next election."
The point is the centrists are not expected to vote for the far left (or even centre left). Corbyn is hardly far left for one but it was fine for James O'Brien to say he would vote for lib dems ahead of Corbyn's Labour without being accused of handing the election to the tories in the same way progressives would get blamed if they say they are not going to vote for Starmer's Labour.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:53 pm
Martin Long wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:01 pm I don't think people should be expected to vote for anyone and should vote for the party that matches their views the closest. I guess the only reason why you wouldn't do this is if you had a local candidate whose views didn't match yours but did a lot in your local area.
It's not about being expected to vote for people, although with our terrible voting system, there are arguments for going against your favourite.

But it's more about people with a voice actively sabotaging their most realistic way of getting rid of Boris Johnson. And it's just more annoying when it's with lazy stereotypes. And claiming to be more left than Chomsky doesn't absolve Boyle from this. If he has real problems with Starmer it would be more reasonable of course - I don't actually think he should escape all criticism from the left just in case the Tories get in again.

And while people on the left and those nearer the "centre" bicker about Corbyn/Starmer etc., the Tories all stick together and win every time.
Again, this argument never seemed to be made when Corbyn was leader. The best way of preventing Johnson gaining power was to vote for Corbyn's Labour in 2017 or 2019. People with a voice like James O'Brien or Russel Howard were using their voice to sabotage Corbyn as well as him having people in his own party actively working against him. Maybe you could make the argument that it was weak leadership from Corbyn to not expel those people and I could agree but this is why we need to move away from civility politics and lesser evilism and start calling these people out and holding them accountable. The likes of James O'Brien voting for lib dems ahead of Corbyn is just as responsible for Johnson gaining power as anyone.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I think the criticism against Corbyn was ridiculous too, especially from his own party. And considering how close the 2017 election was, it's not hard to draw the conclusion that it made a difference.

And the whole thing about Corbyn being really far left was a fabrication too but people bought it. But no-one could point to specific policies. It was just based on him as an individual and his reputation. People are generally further to the left than the politicians they vote for. They just don't realise how far right the Tories are. There's this weird misalignment. Gyles Brandreth, take it away.

But anyway, that all said, I'd rather have Keir Starmer as Prime Minister than Boris Johnson.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Labour needs a new Messiah someone appealing to all.
Tony Blair Mark 2
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Marc Meakin wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:44 pm Labour needs a new Messiah someone appealing to all.
Tony Blair Mark 2
I'll pass on another Tony Blair, thanks.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Saw someone on twitter describe the Democrats as the "party paid to not do good things party" and the Republicans as the "paid to do bad things party". Think that can be applied to Labour and the Conservatives too.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Mark James wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:41 am Why are the left expected to hold their nose and vote for […] candidates just to beat tories or republicans.
This is why I am against electoral pacts and always have been. Not only is it the politics of hate, voting explicitly against someone rather than voting for what you believe in (G Johnson, 2016), but it also relies on the postulate that you will vote for the party/candidate that “they” want you to vote for.

Indeed, John Curtice just this week has published this which suggests that Brexit Party voters would split about 70/30 Con/Lab without a BRX candidate, https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ysis-finds, and that Farage’s (unilateral) decision not to stand in the 2017 Conservative seats only saved a handful of Conservatives.

Many people have kidded themselves into thinking that Martin Bell’s win in Tatton in 1997 was a rule rather than an exemption. The Conservatives stood down for Zac Goldsmith in a 2016 by-election (which he lost as an Independent), but regained it under a Conservative label in 2017.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

In the interests of fairness, here are two great pieces of journalism today:

Ross Atkins’ fair and balanced summary of the Paterson case: https://twitter.com/bbcrosatkins/status ... 73128?s=21

Tom Harwood’s hilarious vox pops of climate change loonies: https://twitter.com/gbnews/status/14576 ... 58595?s=21
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
User avatar
JimBentley
Fanatic
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Politics in General

Post by JimBentley »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:07 amTom Harwood’s hilarious vox pops of climate change loonies: https://twitter.com/gbnews/status/14576 ... 58595?s=21
That was pathetic. You right-wingers evidently set the bar very low for "comedy".

And Tom Harwood is just repulsive.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Whatever one thinks of Alastair Campbell, he did a good job on Boris Johnson on Question Time on Thursday. Also, this is the video he referred to about Johnson's lies.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

You still watch that rubbish?
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Question Time? Most weeks, yes. There is a lot of rubbish on it though. Mainly Tories. :mrgreen:
Paul Anderson
Enthusiast
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:18 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Paul Anderson »

Yeah I guess it's a decent barometer though. It has been very tory for a few years now but hey Brexit etc. The tide thankfully seems to be turning
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:44 am You still watch that rubbish?
You watch GB news.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Mark James wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:44 am You still watch that rubbish?
You watch GB news.
I don't. I follow them on Twitter. As I do with almost every newspaper and broadcast media.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:15 pm
Mark James wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:34 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:44 am You still watch that rubbish?
You watch GB news.
I don't. I follow them on Twitter. As I do with almost every newspaper and broadcast media.

Sourced from viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14904
Rhys Benjamin wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:44 am Meanwhile my "working from home" schedule has turned into filtering data with GB News on in the background.
I count having things on in the background and consuming their output as watching them.
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Mark James wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:23 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Meanwhile my "working from home" schedule has turned into filtering data with GB News on in the background.
I count having things on in the background and consuming their output as watching them.
I don’t count having a news channel on in the background as “watching” it.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:06 pm
Mark James wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:23 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Meanwhile my "working from home" schedule has turned into filtering data with GB News on in the background.
I count having things on in the background and consuming their output as watching them.
I don’t count having a news channel on in the background as “watching” it.
So if Gavin only had Question Time on in the background but was still able to absorb the content you wouldn’t have questioned him about "watching that rubbish"?
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Politics in General

Post by Mark James »

Always amazes me how Conservatives know that being a Conservative and having Conservative opinions is shitty and they have to try and distance themselves from acknowledging it.

"No No, I don't watch the ludicrous far right propaganda channel, I just have it on in the background."
Elliott Mellor
Devotee
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Elliott Mellor »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:06 pm
Mark James wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:23 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Meanwhile my "working from home" schedule has turned into filtering data with GB News on in the background.
I count having things on in the background and consuming their output as watching them.
I don’t count having a news channel on in the background as “watching” it.
Come on Rhys, I've seen some daft arguments in this thread but this is a contender for the daftest of them all. You consciously chose to have it on in the background, so you must have at least been somewhat interested in it - you could have chosen a whole plethora of other channels but chose that specific one each day. It's not like you switch the television on and it forces you to have that channel, you have to choose to put it on. Nobody's claiming you're the most ardent fan of it, but for all intents and purposes you are watching it (at the very least, you're a viewer of it if you really insist on silly technical arguments).

Now, consume whatever material you want, but don't do some sort of dance when people acknowledge your doing so. If you're embarrassed by it, then I suggest you stop watching it. If not, then carry on - it's a free world and you can watch whatever channels you want.
Last edited by Elliott Mellor on Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Matt Rutherford
Acolyte
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:41 pm
Location: Birmingham's Eastern Fleapit

Re: Politics in General

Post by Matt Rutherford »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:06 pm
Mark James wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:23 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Meanwhile my "working from home" schedule has turned into filtering data with GB News on in the background.
I count having things on in the background and consuming their output as watching them.
I don’t count having a news channel on in the background as “watching” it.
Picture the scene...

BOSS-Why did you have pornographic videos on your phone at your desk?

WORKER-I wasn't watching them, they were just 'in the background'
England's most socially-awkward churchgoer
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Am... I the only person who has the news on in the background when working from home? I've worked in offices with BBC One / BBC News / Sky News on...?
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
User avatar
Ian Volante
Postmaster General
Posts: 3956
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:15 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Politics in General

Post by Ian Volante »

Rhys Benjamin wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:15 pm Am... I the only person who has the news on in the background when working from home? I've worked in offices with BBC One / BBC News / Sky News on...?
I usually have music on. In the office, the Comms staff always have news on, but where there's a telly elsewhere (rarely), they were only usually on for FMQs or major relevant debates in the Parliament.
meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles meles
User avatar
Rhys Benjamin
Postmaster General
Posts: 3101
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Rhys Benjamin »

Ian Volante wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:21 pm
Rhys Benjamin wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:15 pm Am... I the only person who has the news on in the background when working from home? I've worked in offices with BBC One / BBC News / Sky News on...?
I usually have music on. In the office, the Comms staff always have news on, but where there's a telly elsewhere (rarely), they were only usually on for FMQs or major relevant debates in the Parliament.
Ah. So it is just me.

Now I understand some of the manufactured outrage above…
Last edited by Rhys Benjamin on Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The forum's resident JAILBAKER, who has SPONDERED several times...
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Its not Wagner by any chance 😊
Last edited by Marc Meakin on Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

People need to sort their quotes out. This outrage is not manufactured.
Marc Meakin
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 6238
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Marc Meakin »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:52 pm People need to sort their quotes out. This outrage is not manufactured.
My bad
GR MSL GNDT MSS NGVWL SRND NNLYC NNCT
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

By the way, the taxi bomber was a Christian convert. Bloody Christianist terrorists.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Gavin Chipper »

From the BBC
A campaign by PC Andrew Harper's widow to give mandatory life sentences to the killers of emergency service workers has been backed by the government.
I don't like this at all. It panders to the populist string-em-up mentality, and this is exactly what the justice system should be moving away from. I'm much more for rehabilitation and reintegration into society where possible. I also don't think some lives are worth more than others, so it shouldn't matter if someone is an emergency service worker. And I think actions and intent are more important than consequences, which can often be a matter of (bad) luck.

I obviously have every sympathy with Andrew Harper's widow for what has happened. However, laws should be set by more objective criteria and not based on emotions.
Phil H
Acolyte
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Phil H »

Gavin Chipper wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:55 pm From the BBC
A campaign by PC Andrew Harper's widow to give mandatory life sentences to the killers of emergency service workers has been backed by the government.
I don't like this at all... It panders to the populist string-em-up mentality... I also don't think some lives are worth more than others.
Totally agree. Painfully on-brand though for the current Govt, of course.
Noel Mc
Enthusiast
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:48 pm

Re: Politics in General

Post by Noel Mc »

It's laughable really, isn't it?

Any money on Sunak being the leaker of the video?
Post Reply