C of C Draw......

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Fred Mumford
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Fred Mumford » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:40 pm

He seems the most likely - he got about 83 maxes in his octorun, nobody else in his half of the draw reached 70. But anything can happen.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Noel Mc » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:07 pm

Show us the seeding!

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Fred Mumford » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:50 pm

Nah, it will only offend 15 people. Anyway I didn't exactly put an enormous amount of thought into it, just looked at the basic stats, and tweaked them a little bit to allow for dictionary updates and progress in their series finals. Wouldn't have bothered at all if it hadn't been for the outcry about one particularly strong quarter of the draw.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Thomas Carey » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:25 am

Fred Mumford wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:50 pm
Nah, it will only offend 15 people. Anyway I didn't exactly put an enormous amount of thought into it, just looked at the basic stats, and tweaked them a little bit to allow for dictionary updates and progress in their series finals. Wouldn't have bothered at all if it hadn't been for the outcry about one particularly strong quarter of the draw.
Tbh I'm flattered you put me in the top 5
cheers maus

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:23 am

Whilst I actually remember (and can't quite believe it hasn't come up) - Annie Humphries, was she invited?
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Owen Carroll » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:39 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:23 am
Whilst I actually remember (and can't quite believe it hasn't come up) - Annie Humphries, was she invited?
No. Wish she was though

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Elliott Mellor » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:27 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:23 am
Whilst I actually remember (and can't quite believe it hasn't come up) - Annie Humphries, was she invited?
I think she was invited but declined.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:36 am

Elliott Mellor wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:27 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:23 am
Whilst I actually remember (and can't quite believe it hasn't come up) - Annie Humphries, was she invited?
I think she was invited but declined.
Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Did she say no, or was she never asked? Either way, shame.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Owen Carroll » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:08 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:36 am
Elliott Mellor wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:27 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:23 am
Whilst I actually remember (and can't quite believe it hasn't come up) - Annie Humphries, was she invited?
I think she was invited but declined.
Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Did she say no, or was she never asked? Either way, shame.
Yeah. I'd rather Annie over one or two others

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Zarte Siempre » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:45 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:36 am
Elliott Mellor wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:27 am
Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:23 am
Whilst I actually remember (and can't quite believe it hasn't come up) - Annie Humphries, was she invited?
I think she was invited but declined.
Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Did she say no, or was she never asked? Either way, shame.
She had a holiday already booked for the dates I believe.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Owen Carroll » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 pm

What with Rhys wondering about Annie, I'm wondering if Jeff Clayton was invited?

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by James Robinson » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:03 pm

Owen Carroll wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 pm
What with Rhys wondering about Annie, I'm wondering if Jeff Clayton was invited?
He wasn't, I was so shocked that he didn't even get an invite, especially as there's only one from S76.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Elliott Mellor » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:22 am

James Robinson wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:03 pm
Owen Carroll wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 pm
What with Rhys wondering about Annie, I'm wondering if Jeff Clayton was invited?
He wasn't, I was so shocked that he didn't even get an invite, especially as there's only one from S76.
If that's the only basis you have for his case, I'm not surprised he wasn't invited at all.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Owen Carroll » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:03 pm

Elliott Mellor wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:22 am
James Robinson wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:03 pm
Owen Carroll wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 pm
What with Rhys wondering about Annie, I'm wondering if Jeff Clayton was invited?
He wasn't, I was so shocked that he didn't even get an invite, especially as there's only one from S76.
If that's the only basis you have for his case, I'm not surprised he wasn't invited at all.
Why?

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Zarte Siempre » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:15 am

Elliott Mellor wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:22 am
James Robinson wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:03 pm
Owen Carroll wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:02 pm
What with Rhys wondering about Annie, I'm wondering if Jeff Clayton was invited?
He wasn't, I was so shocked that he didn't even get an invite, especially as there's only one from S76.
If that's the only basis you have for his case, I'm not surprised he wasn't invited at all.
And 2 were invited from that series, just Moose didn't accept.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

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James Laverty
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by James Laverty » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:11 am

Zarte Siempre wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:15 am
Elliott Mellor wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:22 am
James Robinson wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:03 pm

He wasn't, I was so shocked that he didn't even get an invite, especially as there's only one from S76.
If that's the only basis you have for his case, I'm not surprised he wasn't invited at all.
And 2 were invited from that series, just Moose didn't accept.
Can we count Annie as a third invite from S76, or does she count as S75?
Definitely not Jamie McNeill or Schrodinger's Cat....

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Zarte Siempre » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:30 am

James Laverty wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:11 am
Can we count Annie as a third invite from S76, or does she count as S75?
Two and a half.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Tom S » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:11 pm

Best of luck to all filming tomorrow and in the upcoming days- enjoy and here's to some great games!

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:40 pm

This is going to be a hard COC, (but all the more enjoyable for that, undoubtedly)...
...I am actively rooting for 11 of these contestants to do as well as they possible can, compared to around 6 in the last one.
It'll be compelling viewing.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:58 am

Ok... time to look at the seeding for this:-

Firstly, (just for the buzz) here are the points totals of each of the 48 finalists from the 6 series in question:-

1. [S78] Zarte Siempre (#1. W. 967pts)
2. [S74] Paul Erdunast (#1. W. 925pts)

3. [S73] Thomas Carey (#1. SF. 923pts)
4. [S73] Jonathan Wynn (#2. W. 922pts)
5. [S76] Stephen Read (#1. W. 915pts)
6. [S77] Tom Chafer-Cook (#1. W. 896pts)

7. [S74] Robin McKay (#2. SF. 888pts)*
8. [S74] Ann Dibben (#3. GF. 884pts)
9. [S73] Stephen Briggs (#3. SF. 883pts)*
10. [S78] Toby McDonald (#2. QF. 882pts)*

11. [S77] Bradley Horrocks (#2. GF. 864pts)
12. [S76] Jeff Clayton (#2. SF. 846pts)*
13. [S73] John Hardie (#4. QF. 845pts)*

14. [S75] Martin Hurst (#1. W. 830pts)
15. [S76] Moose Rosser (#3. GF. 828pts)*
16. [S75] Jamie Washington (#2. QF. 825pts)*


--------------------------------------------------------

17. [S75] Andrew Macleod (#3. GF. 809pts)*
18. [S74] Conrad Teixeira (#4. SF. 806pts)
19. [S76] Elliott Mack (#4. QF. 804pts)
20. [S73] Matthew Tassier (#5. GF. 799pts)*
21. [S77] John Cowen (#3. SF. 799pts)*
22. [S77] Noel McIlvenny (#4. SF. 793pts)*

23. [S77] Eoin Jackson (#5. QF. 778pts)
24. [S76] Annie Humphries (#5. SF. 775pts)
25. [S75] John Shaw (#4. QF. 774pts)
26. [S77] Michael Pfeffer (#6. QF. 770pts)
27. [S78] Chris Thorn (#3. QF. 760pts)

28. [S78] Philip Aston (#7. GF. 760pts) [6 wins]*
29. [S78] Dougie Mackay (#6. SF. 759pts) [7 wins]*

30. [S78] Phil Davies (#4. SF. 757pts)*
31. [S76] Wesley Jardine (#6. QF. 753pts)

32. [S73] Liam Moloney (#7. QF. 745pts) [6 wins]
33. [S78] Paul Harper (#5. QF. 739pts)
34. [S77] James Kennedy (#7. QF. 736pts)
35. [S76] Lawrie Collingwood (#7. QF. 734pts)
36. [S75] Andrew Fenton (#5. SF. 728pts)
37. [S74] Dave Costello (#5. QF. 723pts)
38. [S74] Tim Down (#6. QF. 717pts)
39. [S77] Graeme Staples (#8. QF. 678pts)
40. [S76] James Slater (#8. QF. 672pts)

41. [S73] Judy Bursford (#6. QF. 603pts) [7 wins]
42. [S75] Rik Anstee (#6. QF. 561pts) [6 wins]
43. [S73] Matty Artell (#8. QF. 541pts) [5 wins]
44. [S74] Sean Cooke (#7. QF. 541pts) [5 wins]
45. [S75] Stephen Fuller (#7. SF. 507pts) [6 wins]
46. [S75] Tom Stephens (#8. QF. 474pts) [5 wins]
47. [S78] Jan Pask (#8. QF. 473pts) [5 wins]
48. [S74] Tony Lock (#8. QF. 384pts) [4 wins]

--------------------------------------------------------

Some notes:-
a) Obviously, many fans of the show will feel disappointed that we won't be seeing Robin, Stephen, Jeff and Moose in action again, as they've proved themselves as serious contenders.
.
b) It must have been tough for Toby, John and Jamie to have scored enough points to make Top 16 as regards Octototals, however they probably knew that their QF loss pretty much ruled them out of COC contention.
.
c) On a related note, you'd have to feel for Toby, as the circumstances around his QF loss were so unusual, he could be forgiven for holding out a shred of hope.
.
d) 19 players from the last 6 series scored in excess of 800pts in their Octoruns.
.
e) At least 13 of those 19 practised on Apterous in advance of their recording date... which speaks volumes for the enduring influence Charlie's site has on the TV show.

--------------------------------------------------------

More crucially, this next one is a list that is RESULTS based... It lists the competitors by their finishing position, and then by Octototal. (This is the list they'd probably refer to when deciding who most deserves a COC invite.):-

1. [S78] Zarte Siempre (#1. W. 967pts)
2. [S74] Paul Erdunast (#1. W. 925pts)
3. [S73] Jonathan Wynn (#2. W. 922pts)
4. [S76] Stephen Read (#1. W. 915pts)
5. [S77] Tom Chafer-Cook (#1. W. 896pts)
6. [S75] Martin Hurst (#1. W. 830pts)

7. [S74] Ann Dibben (#3. GF. 884pts)
8. [S77] Bradley Horrocks (#2. GF. 864pts)
9. [S76] Moose Rosser (#3. GF. 828pts)*
10. [S75] Andrew Macleod (#3. GF. 809pts)
11. [S73] Matthew Tassier (#5. GF. 799pts)

12. [S78] Philip Aston (#7. GF. 760pts) [6 wins]
13. [S73] Thomas Carey (#1. SF. 923pts)
14. [S74] Robin McKay (#2. SF. 888pts)*
15. [S73] Stephen Briggs (#3. SF. 883pts)*
16. [S76] Jeff Clayton (#2. SF. 846pts)*


--------------------------------------------------------

17. [S74] Conrad Teixeira (#4. SF. 806pts)
18. [S77] John Cowen (#3. SF. 799pts)*
19. [S77] Noel McIlvenny (#4. SF. 793pts)*

20. [S76] Annie Humphries (#5. SF. 775pts)

21. [S78] Dougie Mackay (#6. SF. 759pts) [7 wins]*
22. [S78] Phil Davies (#4. SF. 757pts)*
23. [S75] Andrew Fenton (#5. SF. 728pts)

24. [S75] Stephen Fuller (#7. SF. 507pts) [6 wins]
25. [S78] Toby McDonald (#2. QF. 882pts)
26. [S73] John Hardie (#4. QF. 845pts)
27. [S75] Jamie Washington (#2. QF. 825pts)
28. [S76] Elliott Mack (#4. QF. 804pts)
29. [S77] Eoin Jackson (#5. QF. 778pts)
30. [S75] John Shaw (#4. QF. 774pts)
31. [S77] Michael Pfeffer (#6. QF. 770pts)
32. [S78] Chris Thorn (#3. QF. 760pts)
33. [S76] Wesley Jardine (#6. QF. 753pts)

34. [S73] Liam Moloney (#7. QF. 745pts) [6 wins]
35. [S78] Paul Harper (#5. QF. 739pts)
36. [S77] James Kennedy (#7. QF. 736pts)
37. [S76] Lawrie Collingwood (#7. QF. 734pts)
38. [S74] Dave Costello (#5. QF. 723pts)
39. [S74] Tim Down (#6. QF. 717pts)
40. [S77] Graeme Staples (#8. QF. 678pts)
41. [S76] James Slater (#8. QF. 672pts)

42. [S73] Judy Bursford (#6. QF. 603pts) [7 wins]
43. [S75] Rik Anstee (#6. QF. 561pts) [6 wins]
44. [S73] Matty Artell (#8. QF. 541pts) [5 wins]
45. [S74] Sean Cooke (#7. QF. 541pts) [5 wins]
46. [S75] Tom Stephens (#8. QF. 474pts) [5 wins]
47. [S78] Jan Pask (#8. QF. 473pts) [5 wins]
48. [S74] Tony Lock (#8. QF. 384pts) [4 wins]

--------------------------------------------------------

Notes (mostly criticism tbf... sorry, but has to be done):-
a) This list resembles the 16 'chosen ones' much more closely. There are only 4 names here that won't feature on telly in January.
.
b) The 4 extra people from outside the Top 16 that will be on TV are at #18, #19, #21 and #22... so all top half... which is pretty fair.
.
c) A shout out to Conrad who was agonisingly close to the top 16 on both lists.
.
d) The production team have done well to get every single relevant series champion back for this, and also to secure attendance from 5 of the 6 runners up. That's almost a full house of anagramming awesomeness.
.
e) I saw a strange comment from Countdown Team earlier on this thread, where they moaned about their inability to secure Moose for COC... and in a bizarre twist, tried to blame the fan community for their inadequacy. Crazy shit! Please own your failings, and in future do a better job at incentivising COC to former contestants... or if deemed necessary, employ new staff members with enough charisma to carry out that task effectively. It's not like it's hard.
.
f) Moose Rosser, Robin McKay, Stephen Briggs, and Jeff Clayton's names appear in the Top 16 of BOTH of these lists. There is no doubt here. Each of these contestants deserved an invite to COC. Moose declined, fair enough. I have no intel re: Stephen. But the rumour mill suggests that Jeff and Robin were both snubbed. That is not good enough, particularly as main producer, Damian Eadie (who probably had some say in who was and wasn't to be invited), plays daily on Apterous via a pseudonym, and is involved with the community heavily enough to KNOW -first hand- how much more Countdown matters in the lives of Robin and Jeff than it does in the lives of Phil and Dougie. Bad form. Countdown Team owes these 2 (possibly 3) people... bigtime. Hopefully they will make amends by inviting them to a future special.
.
g) On a related note, allow me pause for a moment to quickly single out Elliott's " I'm not surprised he wasn't invited at all." comment for ridicule. :oops:
.
h) The third of my three major criticisms of COCXV relates to the draw. (There are a couple of problems with the draw, but I don't mean to be overly critical, so I'll only concentrate on the mother of them all...) On both lists it is clear that the #1 seed should be Zarte, and #2 should be Paul. That's a no brainer. Who in their right mind would pit them against each other in the first round when, on paper, that should be the Grand Final? Whether it was done through apathy or stupidity... there's no excusing torpedoing the competition in that way. If it had been a random draw, fair enough -but it wasn't. Someone intentionally planned it that way.
.
i) Yes, these comments are harsh... but I'm only saying it because I care about the contest, and believe what I've written here is not unfair. I hope CD people can take the criticism in the spirit that it is meant and improve things next time COC comes around.

--------------------------------------------------------

Finally, based on the two lists (and especially the 2nd) and with some regard to who seems to be excelling in their pre-COC practise on Apto... here is how I would seed this:-

1. [S78] Zarte Siempre
2. [S74] Paul Erdunast
3. [S73] Thomas Carey
4. [S73] Jonathan Wynn
5. [S77] Bradley Horrocks
6. [S78] Philip Aston
7. [S76] Stephen Read
8. [S77] Tom Chafer-Cook
9. [S74] Ann Dibben
10. [S77] Noel McIlvenny
11. [S77] John Cowen
12. [S75] Martin Hurst
13. [S73] Matthew Tassier
14. [S75] Andrew Macleod
15. [S78] Phil Davies
16. [S78] Dougie Mackay

-Though the seeding is topsy turvy as seeds #1 #2 #3 #4 #6 and #7 are all in the same half of the draw... which probably means that Bradley and Tom should be considered Top 4, given the lay of the land...? It's hard to say.

Anyhow... good luck to everyone over the next 3 days. Hope ye have a brilliant time, & I look forward with great anticipation to seeing ye in action in January. :mrgreen:
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: S:778-ochamp

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Noel Mc » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:52 am

Eoin - all your reasoning as far as who should go is sound. The only problem is it's based on the premise that participants should be decided solely on ability (as well as partially how much they have been dying to take part themselves).

If I was surmising, I would probably add in audience reaction as an additional metric. Whilst I'm sure those who aren't there didn't particularly have a negative reaction, maybe some of the 'surprise' additions had a particularly positive one?

Dougie Mackay has a wonderful jawline. (Also, the highest scoring 7 time winner ever).

John Cowen is John Cowen.

I help balance out the show's diversity policy.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Owen Carroll » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:14 am

Best of luck to you all! Can't wait to see it in January

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am

Donald Trump wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:58 am
e) I saw a strange comment from Countdown Team earlier on this thread, where they moaned about their inability to secure Moose for COC... and in a bizarre twist, tried to blame the fan community for their inadequacy. Crazy shit! Please own your failings, and in future do a better job at incentivising COC to former contestants... or if deemed necessary, employ new staff members with enough charisma to carry out that task effectively. It's not like it's hard.
I saw a strange comment from L'oisleatch McGraw earlier on this thread, where he moaned about the CoC lineup... and, in a bizarre twist, tried to blame the production staff members for not having enough "charisma". Crazy shit!
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:58 am
f) Moose Rosser, Robin McKay, Stephen Briggs, and Jeff Clayton's names appear in the Top 16 of BOTH of these lists. There is no doubt here. Each of these contestants deserved an invite to COC. Moose declined, fair enough. I have no intel re: Stephen. But the rumour mill suggests that Jeff and Robin were both snubbed. That is not good enough, particularly as main producer, Damian Eadie (who probably had some say in who was and wasn't to be invited), plays daily on Apterous via a pseudonym, and is involved with the community heavily enough to KNOW -first hand- how much more Countdown matters in the lives of Robin and Jeff than it does in the lives of Phil and Dougie. Bad form. Countdown Team owes these 2 (possibly 3) people... bigtime. Hopefully they will make amends by inviting them to a future special.
What do you mean, snubbed? There are only 16 places so there are always going to be some talented competitors like Jeff and Robin who don't qualify. What did the rumour mill say? And since when is how much someone plays on Apterous a factor in deciding whether they qualify for the CoC?
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:58 am
h) The third of my three major criticisms of COCXV relates to the draw. (There are a couple of problems with the draw, but I don't mean to be overly critical, so I'll only concentrate on the mother of them all...) On both lists it is clear that the #1 seed should be Zarte, and #2 should be Paul. That's a no brainer. Who in their right mind would pit them against each other in the first round when, on paper, that should be the Grand Final? Whether it was done through apathy or stupidity... there's no excusing torpedoing the competition in that way. If it had been a random draw, fair enough -but it wasn't. Someone intentionally planned it that way.
Ah, the familiar chorus of "that draw's fixed!" I wondered when we'd get to that.

What makes you think the Zarte-Paul match couldn't have come out by chance? If none of the favourites had been drawn together in the first round, there'd be mutterings about that too - over the years there have been comments like "I see Apterite #1 and Apterite #2 were put eight games apart... coincidence?" and "I see Apterite #1 and Apterite #2 were put on the same filming day... coincidence?" We're supposed to believe that the production team both deliberately keep the favourites apart and deliberately pit them against each other, depending on whatever suits the tinfoil-hat-wearer's argument at the time.

Humans are very good at spotting patterns. So good, in fact, that we'll even spot them when they aren't there. Give us some random data and we'll always find patterns in it and assume that means it's not random, like the distribution of the stars in the sky.

Personally I am highly looking forward to Countdown Team's reply to your public accusation that they fixed the draw, your suggestion that they "owe" players who didn't make the draw, and that bizarre insult against their production staff which seemed to come out of nowhere. Of course, this could all be because they didn't include you in the draw, but after they read your post I doubt they're going to have any regrets about that decision.

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Matt Morrison
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Matt Morrison » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:16 pm

You know you done fucked up when you make Graeme swear.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Rob McKay » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Good Evening,

I don't often post on this forum but I've seen things about CoC on here and as my name was mentioned, felt I needed to respond.

Firstly, I will admit openly I am disappointed I didn't make it to the CoC as I am sure others were who didn't qualify, but the truth is, from my POV, I didn't meet the criteria and that is fair enough. I still was really proud of my efforts on the show.

Also, I agree its not fair to start throwing the cat amongst the pigeons and suggesting that the draw was rigged as that is disrespectful, not only to the production team but also to Jeff and myself. There were no irregularities where the draw was made. Everyone who was invited back was invited back on merit and the right choices were made.

Finally, wishing all competitors the best of luck with the CoC. It will be epic!

Best,
Robin

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Tom S » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:59 pm

Rob McKay wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:44 pm
Good Evening,

I don't often post on this forum but I've seen things about CoC on here and as my name was mentioned, felt I needed to respond.

Firstly, I will admit openly I am disappointed I didn't make it to the CoC as I am sure others were who didn't qualify, but the truth is, from my POV, I didn't meet the criteria and that is fair enough. I still was really proud of my efforts on the show.

Also, I agree its not fair to start throwing the cat amongst the pigeons and suggesting that the draw was rigged as that is disrespectful, not only to the production team but also to Jeff and myself. There were no irregularities where the draw was made. Everyone who was invited back was invited back on merit and the right choices were made.

Finally, wishing all competitors the best of luck with the CoC. It will be epic!

Best,
Robin
Well put Robin.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:31 pm

I don't see any reason to suspect that there was foul play in the draw. I think it's unfortunate that the "top two seeds" are playing each other in the first round, but I don't see any particular reason that they would have done it on purpose. Just bad luck. But having said that, I probably wouldn't have gone for a completely random draw in the first place. Maybe I wouldn't do a full seeding list, but I'd probably seed the top two and have some sort of seed groups for the rest and put the top two in opposite halves of the draw.

And if you look at the list Eoin put above based on results followed by octotal, the only three of the top 16 who weren't invited were 14, 15 and 16, so while I wouldn't necessarily have invited the exact same group of people that were invited, I don't think what has happened is the worst thing ever.

So what I'm saying is that I disagree with every single one of you.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:08 am

Noel Mc wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:52 am
John Cowen is John Cowen.

I help balance out the show's diversity policy.
Anyone who made it to a semi final is CoC material as far as I'm concerned. The only pity is that there were only 16 spaces allocated for 24 contenders.
The final 4L solve in your Semi was the best CD moment of the decade, so it'd have been a big loss had you been left out imo.

And I am 100% in agreement that John Cowen is indeed John Cowen... We wouldn't want it any other way.
>>>9<<<
>>>MORTALISE<<<
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:12 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:31 pm
the only three of the top 16 who weren't invited were 14, 15 and 16, so while I wouldn't necessarily have invited the exact same group of people that were invited, I don't think what has happened is the worst thing ever.
Agreed.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by L'oisleatch McGraw » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am

Graeme.
Apologies. I can't expend too much energy taking your reply seriously, as you seem to have a blind spot on this topic. You're usually sharper and fairer in your analysis of things... but not with this.

Hypothetically, if someone's tongue is deeply extended into someone else's hole, all they'd realistically be able to see would be that person's butt cheeks (or balls, depending on the preferred angle of approach)... so you could forgive their inability to see reason or logic in those circumstances.
Damian Eadie is not above criticism... try retract for a moment, and you might see enough to agree.

Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am
I saw a strange comment from L'oisleatch McGraw earlier on this thread, where he moaned about the CoC lineup... and, in a bizarre twist, tried to blame the production staff members for not having enough "charisma". Crazy shit!
I didn't accuse them of not having charisma. Read it again. I criticised Damian's audacity in trying to blame the 'community' (quote marks courtesy of 'Countdown Team' btw) for Moose's refusal to return. It is part of THEIR JOB to round up former contestants for events like CoC. If you can't manage to get someone excited about an all expenses paid trip, to stay in a scenic riverside spot, to participate in a game you enjoy, with months of advance notice... you are doing something wrong. Deflecting the blame for that, suggests narcissism might be a factor.

I was very surprised when you (and some others) just unquestioningly accepted that criticism of the fan community as though it were gospel... and went so far as to comment that it "looks like a whacking great red flag". It puts me in mind of a person in an abusive relationship who believes it's somehow her fault that her husband beats her. It's not your fault. (It's not your fault.)

Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am
Ah, the familiar chorus of "that draw's fixed!" I wondered when we'd get to that.
They admitted it was "fixed", it was engineered to keep people from the same series away from one another... So if you are going to bother engineering it (in that retarded way) then why not engineer it a little further to keep the seeds apart, thereby improving its worth as a competitive event? Again... not hard to do. And if Damian does not care enough about CoC to take the time to do those sorts of basic things, perhaps it's time to hand the reins to someone with more zeal.

Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am
Personally I am highly looking forward to Countdown Team's reply to your public accusation that they fixed the draw, your suggestion that they "owe" players who didn't make the draw, and that bizarre insult against their production staff which seemed to come out of nowhere.
They are unlikely to reply, but if they did:-
1. That they "fixed" the draw is not a baseless accusation. It is a fact. They already admitted that it was "fixed" (your choice of word) to keep players from meeting others from their own series. So there we have it. No big deal. And not nearly as sinister or legalistic as your language suggests.

2. At this point I'd like to put my hands up on that, and admit that you're right; the show doesn't necessarily "owe" anyone. All the 48 finalists (to my knowledge) have been treated nicely by the production team, had great experiences in Salford, and should have no grounds for complaint. However, I stand by the assertion that the overlooking of certain high scoring semi-finalists was, simply, bad manners... and if they (the powers that be) are good people, they will keep those contestants in mind for potential future appearances.

3. If you remember correctly I said, "if deemed necessary"... I doubt it would be deemed necessary to find new more charismatic staff, as the likes of James and Dave have charisma aplenty... none of us know what lengths they went to when selling CoC to Moose. I suspect they didn't try hard enough though, as it's not that hard a sell. Perhaps an item to be put on the "must do better next time" list.
Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am
Of course, this could all be because they didn't include you in the draw
And that's why Jen calls you 'God'... So clever. You see right through me!

Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am
but after they read your post I doubt they're going to have any regrets about that decision.
And after they read your reply, they will marvel at the strength of your tongue. ;)
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Graeme Cole » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:32 am

L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am
Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am
I saw a strange comment from L'oisleatch McGraw earlier on this thread, where he moaned about the CoC lineup... and, in a bizarre twist, tried to blame the production staff members for not having enough "charisma". Crazy shit!
I didn't accuse them of not having charisma. Read it again.
Okay, here's what you wrote:
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:58 am
e) I saw a strange comment from Countdown Team earlier on this thread, where they moaned about their inability to secure Moose for COC... and in a bizarre twist, tried to blame the fan community for their inadequacy. Crazy shit! Please own your failings, and in future do a better job at incentivising COC to former contestants... or if deemed necessary, employ new staff members with enough charisma to carry out that task effectively. It's not like it's hard.
What meaning do you expect readers to take from "employ new staff members with enough charisma"? It's a totally uncalled-for swipe at the production staff. Out of the whole of your original post, I thought this was what most needed challenging, far more than any comments about how the draw was done, or who got invited and who didn't, which you'd expect in any CoC thread.
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am
I criticised Damian's audacity in trying to blame the 'community' (quote marks courtesy of 'Countdown Team' btw) for Moose's refusal to return. It is part of THEIR JOB to round up former contestants for events like CoC. If you can't manage to get someone excited about an all expenses paid trip, to stay in a scenic riverside spot, to participate in a game you enjoy, with months of advance notice... you are doing something wrong. Deflecting the blame for that, suggests narcissism might be a factor.

I was very surprised when you (and some others) just unquestioningly accepted that criticism of the fan community as though it were gospel... and went so far as to comment that it "looks like a whacking great red flag". It puts me in mind of a person in an abusive relationship who believes it's somehow her fault that her husband beats her. It's not your fault. (It's not your fault.)
I've got no reason to believe they'd lie about Moose's reasons, have you? If someone declined their invitation to CoC because they were being pestered by one or more members of our community, is that not a "red flag", in the sense that it's a good enough reason for us to stop and think how we can prevent the same from happening again?

I said that your comments about the production staff were what most needed challenging, but your comparison of reporting someone's reasons for declining a place on a game show with domestic abuse has somewhat raised the bar there.
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am
They admitted it was "fixed", it was engineered to keep people from the same series away from one another... So if you are going to bother engineering it (in that retarded way) then why not engineer it a little further to keep the seeds apart, thereby improving its worth as a competitive event? Again... not hard to do. And if Damian does not care enough about CoC to take the time to do those sorts of basic things, perhaps it's time to hand the reins to someone with more zeal.
This is what Team said about the draw:
Countdown Team wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:15 pm
Lots of conjecture over the draw for the C of C.
Conspiracy, fixing, agendas etc, when in truth, the only thing that was pre-ordained prior to the draw was keeping people apart from the same series they played in.

Granted, there are some series winners who play each other in the first round, but so what. It's called Champion of Champions for a reason. At the end, there will be a winner, and that winner will have deserved it. Nothing was ever rigged or fixed or agenda driven or whatever other bullshit terms people wish to use, so there you have it.
And this is what you said:
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:58 am
On both lists it is clear that the #1 seed should be Zarte, and #2 should be Paul. That's a no brainer. Who in their right mind would pit them against each other in the first round when, on paper, that should be the Grand Final? Whether it was done through apathy or stupidity... there's no excusing torpedoing the competition in that way. If it had been a random draw, fair enough -but it wasn't. Someone intentionally planned it that way.
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am
1. That they "fixed" the draw is not a baseless accusation. It is a fact. They already admitted that it was "fixed" (your choice of word) to keep players from meeting others from their own series. So there we have it. No big deal. And not nearly as sinister or legalistic as your language suggests.
So when you talked about the Zarte-Paul match, and immediately afterwards said "someone intentionally planned it that way", you didn't mean Zarte and Paul were deliberately put together in the first round, you were in fact referring to the deliberate keeping-apart of players from the same series? Do you think that's clear from what you wrote?

"Fixed" doesn't just mean "not random". It also doesn't mean "the draw was done how they said it was done". Otherwise the World Cup draw could be described as "fixed" because they openly put the seeds into different groups, or the start of The Apprentice as "fixed" because they divide the teams by gender rather than randomly. "Fixed" implies some deliberate manipulation which is shady enough that they don't acknowledge it.
L'oisleatch McGraw wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am
Graeme Cole wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:23 am
but after they read your post I doubt they're going to have any regrets about that decision.
And after they read your reply, they will marvel at the strength of your tongue. ;)
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:46 pm

I'm not a huge fan of structuring the draw so that same-series players are kept apart. Re-drawing that person would be far better. Zarte vs Paul in the first round is tough shit, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. COC10 aside (when K Ogilvie and S Mearns had to be given byes because they only had 5 episodes to use), they've never been seeded, so I don't like seeding them. Besides, if we are seeding them, are we ignoring their finals performances? If so, does that mean that Xicounts get preference over losing octochamps?

Code: Select all

1	Zarte	Siempre	11	1331
2	Paul	Erundast	11	1273
3	Jonathan	Wynn	11	1244
4	Tom	Chafer-Cook	11	1235
5	Stephen	Read	11	1230
6	Martin	Hurst	11	1128
7	Ann	Dibben	10	1209
8	Andrew	Macleod	10	1119
9	Matthew	Tassier	10	1119
10	Thomas	Carey	9	1141
11	Bradley	Horrocks	9	1136
12	Noel	McIlvenny	9	987
13	John	Cowen	9	987
14	Dougie	Mackay	9	932
15	Philip	Davies	9	926
16	Philip	Aston	8	1080
For me, the answer to seeding is no, it would mean yet another Zarte/Philip matchup in Round 1 and some of the stronger players knocked out immediately, more so than the semi-random draw COC15 has thrown up. (John vs Tom C-C / Martin vs Bradley, eg).

I think it's right to say Damian is not above constructive criticism: I have expressed a number of creative differences to him over the years. Further to that point, the only reason this fuss has come about is because there's such a huge pool of players to choose between. COC10 was the last time that COCs happened rigidly every four "regular" series:
- COCs 1-8: 8 from 32
- COC9: 16 from 32
- COC10: 6 from 32
- COC11: 16 from 52
- COC12: 16 from 48
- COC13: 16 from 40
- COC14-15: 16 from 48
(all exclude players who took part in COCs outside their catchment area, such as Darryl Francis and Jon Corby)

Therefore, on Toby, losing quarter finalists very rarely got in in the 7-ep era: John Wallace and Laurie Silver in COC2, Cathy Morgan in COC3, and Stephen Deakin in COC4. I'm still also not sold on the idea you need a 3-week, rather than a 7-episode, COC. After all, Damian's own reluctance regarding the holding of COCs and 30BC was that the casual viewers don't like being beaten in best-of-the-best tournaments (a viewpoint I find difficult to corroborate in the ratings of the early 00s when the CoCs were slowly wound down; I may have only been 7, but I distinctly remember a buzz in my primary school around Conor's performances in Series 54 and the sheer shock when he lost in the COC), so surely it logically follows they don't need to be that long? 7 episodes plus three specials, is, in my way, a better way to start the year every two years.

I had a feeling finger-pointing would happen over Moose's non-inclusion after what Countdown Team said about the way he was (allegedly) harried by someone / some people regarding this place, Apterous, et al. If it is true, and I'm trying not to jump to any conclusions about it, Apterous doesn't need to have a monopoly on successful Countdown contestants, and the sooner those people realise that, the better. Some of the newer players on Apterous have asked me if you're grilled, Paxman-style, in the green room as to whether you practise online or not. Jay, the floor manager, asked me once (I didn't meet Damian on my first day, interestingly). So whether Moose was harried or not, the domination of Apterous is something that there needs to be a long discussion about at some point. And no, I don't think the answer is blocking out a series with mostly non-Apterites, as has clearly been done in S79.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Gavin Chipper » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:09 pm

Rhys Benjamin wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:46 pm
COC10 aside (when K Ogilvie and S Mearns had to be given byes because they only had 5 episodes to use), they've never been seeded, so I don't like seeding them.
Actually some of the early ones were. The first six I think.

And no, I don't think the answer is blocking out a series with mostly non-Apterites, as has clearly been done in S79.
It was something I vaguely wondered about. Have people actually been put off to a later series? Is this definitely a thing?

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Thomas Carey » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:33 pm

bradley won 10 :(
cheers maus

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Countdown Team » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:32 pm

Well, 2 days out of 3 into the filming and it's been fab so far.

Thanks everyone for your comments. They'll all be taken on board. :D

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Matt Morrison » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:04 am

Haha, not necessarily the response I expected, but that's for the best.
This thread is already a car crash, no need to rubberneck.

Glad to hear it's going well (as obviously it would).

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Owen Carroll » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:15 am

Can't wait to see it in January! Hope everyone's having fun working on it and participating in it!

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Mark Murray » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:57 pm

Really enjoyed the games. Well done to all the contestants who showed good grace and sportsmanship as well as a great calibre of game. And well done to all of the production staff who did a fantastic job of making it all so seamless. A very enjoyable few days. Thanks for the hospitality, as ever

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Countdown Team » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:05 pm

All done - fantastic effort from everyone involved, sterling work by the team on the production staff, and the guy with no zeal who needs replacing, worked his nuts off to help make some fabulous telly.

Over and out x

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Tom S » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:30 pm

Just a quick irrelevant Q:
Who was the DC guest for the final day of recordings (a.k.a today's) - Wiki states Jon Culshaw but the ticket states and has stated for a while that it was Rufus Hound.
Thanks :)

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Graeme Cole » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:41 pm

Tom S wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:30 pm
Just a quick irrelevant Q:
Who was the DC guest for the final day of recordings (a.k.a today's) - Wiki states Jon Culshaw but the ticket states and has stated for a while that it was Rufus Hound.
Thanks :)
Jon Culshaw is in the various pictures people have posted on Facebook, so it was probably him. Or perhaps he was the reserve contestant.

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Tom S » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:45 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:41 pm
Tom S wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:30 pm
Just a quick irrelevant Q:
Who was the DC guest for the final day of recordings (a.k.a today's) - Wiki states Jon Culshaw but the ticket states and has stated for a while that it was Rufus Hound.
Thanks :)
Jon Culshaw is in the various pictures people have posted on Facebook, so it was probably him. Or perhaps he was the reserve contestant.
Heh thanks :)

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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Callum Todd » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:15 pm

Had a really brilliant 3 day break in Salford. The whole Countdown team, production, presenting, and others, were amazing. Apologies if this appears to some to perpetuate a culture of anilingus on here, but the quality of all those people's work really does amaze me. Despite even all the apterous and co:eventing I've done, and the Countdown filming experiences I've had myself in the past, this CoC week has been the biggest and brightest example yet for me of how fucking great this community can be and how weirdly wonderful it is that so many people, of all different ages and from all over the country - and beyond - continue to be drawn together over this old anagram-and-arithmetic based game show that half of us haven't even watched on TV for years. Sorry to come on this forum for the first time in yonks and be all mushy on yous but when we all come together like this to be part of something beautiful I do love y'all cunts.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Mark Deeks » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:29 pm

I'm enjoying the post/signature synergy there. You're gushing over how wonderful everyone is next to a quote from one particularly wonderful member of the community accusing you of looking like a serial killer. Good times, good times.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Johnny Canuck » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:16 pm

Were any of the CoC shows billed as being the 7000th episode? Officially that won't be until the second week of Series 80 proper, but the celebrations of "thousandth" episodes have tended to be slightly before the actual ones.
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Re: C of C Draw......

Post by Zarte Siempre » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:11 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:16 pm
Were any of the CoC shows billed as being the 7000th episode? Officially that won't be until the second week of Series 80 proper, but the celebrations of "thousandth" episodes have tended to be slightly before the actual ones.
No
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

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