A kick in the teeth

[Rhys Benjamin]

(OK, I should have written this up months ago, but anyhow...)

I wrote to Channel 4 under the FOI act requesting if they could fill the gaps in our database. After Channel 4 refused, I asked why and asked if they could go into detail.

The upshot of the reply was that Channel 4 does not have the information, so don't try asking yourself.

[...] we can confirm that Channel 4 does not hold this information in aggregate form. Countdown was the first programme shown on Channel 4, when it began broadcasting in November 1982. Since then thousands of episodes have been transmitted over a period of 31 years. As you have noted, some of the information you have requested is available, but not all of it. Accordingly, were we to attempt to collect all the information we would be required to search every script for every episode and cross-check these against what was broadcast. This would involve months of work. Accordingly, even were this information within the
scope of the Act, responding to your request would far exceed the Act’s costs threshold appropriate to Channel Four Television Corporation.

[Gavin Chipper]

What exactly did you ask for?

[Jon O'Neill]

This is great and it's good that they took the request seriously.

I guess all FOI Requests are online:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-476929

[Gavin Chipper]

This is great and it's good that they took the request seriously.

I guess all FOI Requests are online:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-476929

I suppose they're available under the Freedom of Information Act.

[Graeme Cole]

Yes, I wouldn't have expected them to accept the request. I can believe that electronic or even paper records of the games from the early series don't exist any more, which means the only record would be the archived episodes.

Even if we only requested details for games we don't have full details for, of which there are over 100, there is a significant cost associated with taking a 30 year old videotape in a long-obsolete format and converting it to something playable on modern equipment like a DVD, and doing that 100 times over would easily fall within the FOI exemption for requests that would take too much time and resources to answer.

Good try though.

[Jon O'Neill]

Even if we only requested details for games we don't have full details for, of which there are over 100, there is a significant cost associated with taking a 30 year old videotape in a long-obsolete format and converting it to something playable on modern equipment like a DVD, and doing that 100 times over would easily fall within the FOI exemption for requests that would take too much time and resources to answer.

So you're saying you'll do it?

[Mark Deeks]

Can't believe he volunteered like that. Cheers Graeme, you're the best.

[Gavin Chipper]

Even if we only requested details for games we don't have full details for, of which there are over 100, there is a significant cost associated with taking a 30 year old videotape in a long-obsolete format and converting it to something playable on modern equipment like a DVD, and doing that 100 times over would easily fall within the FOI exemption for requests that would take too much time and resources to answer.

So you're saying you'll do it?

This isn't the thread to ask questions of Graeme.

[Countdown Team]

C4 look like they dealt with the query really well to me. Hardly a kick in the teeth.

[Matt Morrison]

I believe the teeth are the metaphorical gnashers of the Countdown historians' chances of filling in the database.
The end result is not improved at all by the (perfectly excellent) quality of response by C4.

[Zarte Siempre]

C4 look like they dealt with the query really well to me. Hardly a kick in the teeth.

I believe the teeth are the metaphorical gnashers of the Countdown historians' chances of filling in the database.
The end result is not improved at all by the (perfectly excellent) quality of response by C4.

They probably realised it was Rhys e-mailing and ACTUALLY kicked him in the teeth.

[Countdown Team]

We might be able to help with scores of games in some cases, but definitely not the actual selections.

If you post what it is you're looking for, then we'll have a look.

[Graeme Cole]

We might be able to help with scores of games in some cases, but definitely not the actual selections.

If you post what it is you're looking for, then we'll have a look.

Well, that's very kind.

As you probably know, we've got full details for most games on the wiki thanks to Mike Brown's note-taking over the years and the efforts of a whole bunch of people (mostly not me) who transcribed them all a few years ago. The gaps are where no notes were taken for whatever reason. They're in series 1 in which nearly all details are missing except the contestants' names, series 2 in which we've got the selections and final scores for most games but the contestant offerings are missing, series 7 in which we have the final scores for all games but we're missing most of the round details, and a few other episodes from the 1980s and 1990s which have small details missing.

The full list of games which were broadcast but for which we don't know the final score are:

• most of series 1 (21 episodes)
• 15th April 1983 in series 2
• 21st April 1983 in series 2
• This Masters game ending on 27th October 1989
• This other Masters game ending on 10th November 1989

There are also a very small number of episodes like this one and this one which were recorded but never broadcast for one reason or another. Don't know if we're counting those.

I realise it's probably a big ask to expect scores for 30-year-old games still to be sitting around in a cupboard somewhere, but if you do happen to have the scores for some or all of the above I'm sure it'd be appreciated by me and many others on here.

[Mark Deeks]

Detective Sergeant Louise Bentley, from the Child Abuse Investigation Team at Bury, said: [...] “As an experienced former teacher and middle-aged man I find such sentiments to be insulting to the victim and others in the profession.

Louise Bentley has lived a full life.

[Countdown Team]

Unfortunately, the only documents here relating to Series 1 and 2 show the transmission dates and contestants names only. For some reason, whoever was around at that time thought it wasn't necessary to keep a note of the scores, which seems a bit lax.

Nothing is around for the masters, although there's a small chance that some files are lurking around in our store room, but it's unlikely as there was a clear-out a while back.

The Steve Fisher / John Ashmore game is a mystery, in that i'm pretty sure John won, but can't find any records of that either, but will have a look in the store room for this as well. The 'other' game is not relevant IMO.

[Graeme Cole]

Unfortunately, the only documents here relating to Series 1 and 2 show the transmission dates and contestants names only. For some reason, whoever was around at that time thought it wasn't necessary to keep a note of the scores, which seems a bit lax.

Nothing is around for the masters, although there's a small chance that some files are lurking around in our store room, but it's unlikely as there was a clear-out a while back.

The Steve Fisher / John Ashmore game is a mystery, in that i'm pretty sure John won, but can't find any records of that either, but will have a look in the store room for this as well. The 'other' game is not relevant IMO.

Fair enough, thanks for looking anyway.

I like how our wiki has turned out to have more information about series 1 and 2 than was kept by the actual show.

[David Williams]

You may have already tried this, but assuming there is some sort of 'official' Scrabble magazine, how about putting a plea in there? I imagine a fair few of the contestants in the early days were Scrabble players (they were pretty hopeless at numbers anyway), and I reckon 1982 would be about when I first bought a VCR, so you might fill a few gaps.

[Gavin Chipper]

You may have already tried this, but assuming there is some sort of 'official' Scrabble magazine, how about putting a plea in there? I imagine a fair few of the contestants in the early days were Scrabble players (they were pretty hopeless at numbers anyway), and I reckon 1982 would be about when I first bought a VCR, so you might fill a few gaps.

Most Scrabble players tended to buy their first VCR in 1983 though.

[Jon Corby]

and I reckon 1982 would be about when I first bought a VCR, so you might fill a few gaps.

I've just filled in one.