Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Discuss anything interesting but not remotely Countdown-related here.

Moderator: Jon O'Neill

Post Reply
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Let's say you've bought two game controllers from an American seller on eBay. They turn out to be basically rubbish. One of them breaks within a day, and the other one, while not yet broken, is unrepsonsive and basically rubbish. The seller offers to replace them, but it is a rubbish product, so any replacement will be rubbish and will break. Is the buyer entitled to a refund of both product and postage?

If someone sent you a piece of gravel instead of a controller, it would be no good for them to keep replacing it with another piece of gravel, because a piece of gravel is not the product that was advertised and paid for. A crap controller is also not what was advertised and paid for. A crap controller might be closer to a proper controller than a piece of gravel is, but it's not close enough.
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Show the product description and I'll show you where you went wrong.

In this case, you're probably best just writing it off because of the postage costs involved going back and forth and the difficulty of eBay arbitration.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon O'Neill wrote:Show the product description and I'll show you where you went wrong.
It's like any description. Calls it a product. Doesn't mention that it's shit and doesn't work properly and it's likely to fail even further after a day.
In this case, you're probably best just writing it off because of the postage costs involved going back and forth and the difficulty of eBay arbitration.
I've got nothing to lose by complaining though - to the seller at least.
User avatar
Michael Wallace
Racoonteur
Posts: 5458
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 am
Location: London

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Michael Wallace »

Gavin Chipper wrote:I've got nothing to lose by complaining though - to the seller at least.
Except you might annoy them, and they presumably know where you live...
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:Show the product description and I'll show you where you went wrong.
It's like any description. Calls it a product. Doesn't mention that it's shit and doesn't work properly and it's likely to fail even further after a day.
In this case, you're probably best just writing it off because of the postage costs involved going back and forth and the difficulty of eBay arbitration.
I've got nothing to lose by complaining though - to the seller at least.
But you've almost certainly made any number of rookie mistakes.
User avatar
Karen Pearson
Devotee
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Bromsgrove

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Karen Pearson »

You should complain and ask (politely) for a refund. Because the seller lives in the US, I'm not sure our distance selling regs apply but I'm sure Ebay has some advice on its help pages. I think here you can claim a refund for the product and one lot of postage charges (but not both i.e. to you and to return the product).

Did you check the seller's feedback before buying? I would certainly recommend doing that, particularly before buying from an overseas buyer. Sometimes though, you do have to write it off and learn from the experience. I've been buying and selling on Ebay for years and I still made a mistake last week and something I bought turned out to be a lot smaller than I expected, but the size was in the product description, I just hadn't read it properly so mea culpa!
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

Karen Pearson wrote: I just hadn't read it properly so mea culpa!
I sometimes get really annoyed at companies, when really it's my or my family's mistake. Am I imagining things or did retailers used to have much more discretion years ago, but now stick to the letter of T&Cs?

e.g. my daughter (same address) discovered she'd been paying for Amazon Prime deliveries (one-day delivery) for 4 years, when we thought she was on my membership. They refunded her the amount that had just gone out, but not previous years.
I would've thought it obvious to Amazon that 2 related people at the same address wouldn't both need a Prime Membership, and that is was obviously an unintentional error, but they're sticking to their T&Cs.

I'm still pissed off about it, but Claire's put it down as 'moron tax'. Her attitude causes less stress I suppose, but I feel she's been ripped off.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
User avatar
Karen Pearson
Devotee
Posts: 742
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Bromsgrove

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Karen Pearson »

If you have 2 separate accounts Julie, I don't think it would be fair to expect Amazon to link them because they are at the same address. My husband and I have 2 separate accounts using the same credit card but I wouldn't want Amazon to link them as I don't want him to know what I'm buying him for his birthday etc!
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

Karen Pearson wrote:If you have 2 separate accounts Julie, I don't think it would be fair to expect Amazon to link them because they are at the same address. My husband and I have 2 separate accounts using the same credit card but I wouldn't want Amazon to link them as I don't want him to know what I'm buying him for his birthday etc!
Ah, no, not link the ordering accounts, Karen. But if you pay extra for Amazon Prime delivery, you can nominate up to 3 (maybe 4 I'm not sure) other Amazon accounts to get the speedy delivery. My 2 eldest sons get my Prime Membership delivery too. I don't see their orders or payments unless they show me! :)

Annoyingly, Amazon don't send an email or other notification when they're about to take the annual payment for Prime Membership out, so Claire previously just thought it was part of her Xmas and New Year spending. It's only now she's not working, so there are fewer transactions going through her account, that she noticed.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon Corby »

Julie T wrote:Ah, no, not link the ordering accounts, Karen. But if you pay extra for Amazon Prime delivery, you can nominate up to 3 (maybe 4 I'm not sure) other Amazon accounts to get the speedy delivery. My 2 eldest sons get my Prime Membership delivery too. I don't see their orders or payments unless they show me! :)
So Amazon linked your sons' accounts automatically, but not your daughter's? I can certainly see why you're annoyed then, that isn't on at all.
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

Jon Corby wrote:
Julie T wrote:Ah, no, not link the ordering accounts, Karen. But if you pay extra for Amazon Prime delivery, you can nominate up to 3 (maybe 4 I'm not sure) other Amazon accounts to get the speedy delivery. My 2 eldest sons get my Prime Membership delivery too. I don't see their orders or payments unless they show me! :)
So Amazon linked your sons' accounts automatically, but not your daughter's? I can certainly see why you're annoyed then, that isn't on at all.
Thanks, Jon. Apparently she managed to click a button to start her own Prime membership, instead of accepting my invitation to join mine which my sons did. So all the Prime deliveries Claire was getting, she thought was under my membership, but she was actually paying an unnecessary extra payment for.

Which was my point about retailers sticking to the letter of their T&Cs and rarely using discretion anymore, even though life has become increasingly more complex and so it's so easy to make an error. What happened to a bit of goodwill to rectify a genuine mistake admittedly on my daughter's part?
Damned annoying.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon Corby »

Haha, I was actually taking the piss, because they hadn't done anything of the sort.
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

Jon Corby wrote:Haha, I was actually taking the piss, because they hadn't done anything of the sort.
Yeah - forgot you're an arsehole - thought you'd misunderstood. :roll:

Edited to add: I've suffered having 2 teeth extracted this week, so my bullshit detector may be a little below par. ;)
Last edited by Julie T on Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
David Williams
Kiloposter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Williams »

Julie T wrote:I sometimes get really annoyed at companies, when really it's my or my family's mistake. Am I imagining things or did retailers used to have much more discretion years ago, but now stick to the letter of T&Cs?
I don't think this is generally true. For example, on two occasions I've received an apology and a cheque for £30 from my bank. Nice, particularly as I hadn't actually complained, merely asked them to put something right. I think it's people's sense of entitlement that's changed.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Jon O'Neill wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:Show the product description and I'll show you where you went wrong.
It's like any description. Calls it a product. Doesn't mention that it's shit and doesn't work properly and it's likely to fail even further after a day.
In this case, you're probably best just writing it off because of the postage costs involved going back and forth and the difficulty of eBay arbitration.
I've got nothing to lose by complaining though - to the seller at least.
But you've almost certainly made any number of rookie mistakes.
Buying them in the first place - yes. What else might I have done to damage the situation?
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Karen Pearson wrote:You should complain and ask (politely) for a refund. Because the seller lives in the US, I'm not sure our distance selling regs apply but I'm sure Ebay has some advice on its help pages. I think here you can claim a refund for the product and one lot of postage charges (but not both i.e. to you and to return the product).

Did you check the seller's feedback before buying? I would certainly recommend doing that, particularly before buying from an overseas buyer. Sometimes though, you do have to write it off and learn from the experience. I've been buying and selling on Ebay for years and I still made a mistake last week and something I bought turned out to be a lot smaller than I expected, but the size was in the product description, I just hadn't read it properly so mea culpa!
They've got quite high positive feedback. I think they're an uber seller, or whatever the terminology is.

Anyway, correspondence has been entered into. We'll see how it goes, but it seems they're not keen on issuing a refund, certainly not on any postage.
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

David Williams wrote:
Julie T wrote:I sometimes get really annoyed at companies, when really it's my or my family's mistake. Am I imagining things or did retailers used to have much more discretion years ago, but now stick to the letter of T&Cs?
I don't think this is generally true. For example, on two occasions I've received an apology and a cheque for £30 from my bank. Nice, particularly as I hadn't actually complained, merely asked them to put something right. I think it's people's sense of entitlement that's changed.
Lucky you! All I know is, complaining used to get me somewhere, whereas it rarely does these days. Maybe too many people complaining at the slightest thing, not to mention the suing/compensation culture, means that companies are wary of admitting any fault or setting a precedent of a refund.

IMHO Claire should've been refunded the £150 (or so IIRC) she'd paid in annual payments over the years for a service I'd already paid for. Her mistake, yes, but Amazon certainly contributed to the continuing error by not sending even an annual email regarding the membership and/or fee. I don't receive a reminder either, before my annual payment is taken out - I did point out to them that it would be better business practice if they did.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Karen Pearson wrote:You should complain and ask (politely) for a refund. Because the seller lives in the US, I'm not sure our distance selling regs apply but I'm sure Ebay has some advice on its help pages. I think here you can claim a refund for the product and one lot of postage charges (but not both i.e. to you and to return the product).

Did you check the seller's feedback before buying? I would certainly recommend doing that, particularly before buying from an overseas buyer. Sometimes though, you do have to write it off and learn from the experience. I've been buying and selling on Ebay for years and I still made a mistake last week and something I bought turned out to be a lot smaller than I expected, but the size was in the product description, I just hadn't read it properly so mea culpa!
They've got quite high positive feedback. I think they're an uber seller, or whatever the terminology is.

Anyway, correspondence has been entered into. We'll see how it goes, but it seems they're not keen on issuing a refund, certainly not on any postage.
Hope it goes well, Gavin. :)
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
David Williams
Kiloposter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Williams »

Julie T wrote:IMHO Claire should've been refunded the £150 (or so IIRC) she'd paid in annual payments over the years for a service I'd already paid for. Her mistake, yes, but Amazon certainly contributed to the continuing error by not sending even an annual email regarding the membership and/or fee. I don't receive a reminder either, before my annual payment is taken out - I did point out to them that it would be better business practice if they did.
If it had been the other way round, and Amazon had been supplying you the service but forgetting to charge you, how would you react if they realised and asked you for £150?
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Ryan Taylor »

David Williams wrote:
Julie T wrote:IMHO Claire should've been refunded the £150 (or so IIRC) she'd paid in annual payments over the years for a service I'd already paid for. Her mistake, yes, but Amazon certainly contributed to the continuing error by not sending even an annual email regarding the membership and/or fee. I don't receive a reminder either, before my annual payment is taken out - I did point out to them that it would be better business practice if they did.
If it had been the other way round, and Amazon had been supplying you the service but forgetting to charge you, how would you react if they realised and asked you for £150?
:D
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

Ryan Taylor wrote:
David Williams wrote:
Julie T wrote:IMHO Claire should've been refunded the £150 (or so IIRC) she'd paid in annual payments over the years for a service I'd already paid for. Her mistake, yes, but Amazon certainly contributed to the continuing error by not sending even an annual email regarding the membership and/or fee. I don't receive a reminder either, before my annual payment is taken out - I did point out to them that it would be better business practice if they did.
If it had been the other way round, and Amazon had been supplying you the service but forgetting to charge you, how would you react if they realised and asked you for £150?
:D
Rubbish argument IMHO.

My local council took a similar stance when I said that Claire's then earnings (which affected my housing and council tax benefit levels) should be taken into account over the whole tax year rather than just the 6 weeks prior to the annual assessment, since she was on a zero hours contract and so her fortnightly pay varied quite considerably. They said that although we lost out since her earnings were then higher than usual those particular weeks, we'd have felt lucky if we'd've been assessed on slower weeks and her earnings had then gone higher and they wouldn't expect us to cough up more.
So I'm supposed to have been happy that we were effectively subsidising others on a higher income than ours? I think not. "All the luck of the draw" - crap - life shouldn't be a lottery.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Charlie Reams »

Julie T wrote:
Ryan Taylor wrote:
David Williams wrote: If it had been the other way round, and Amazon had been supplying you the service but forgetting to charge you, how would you react if they realised and asked you for £150?
:D
Rubbish argument IMHO.
I think you'll have to concede this one, David!
David Williams
Kiloposter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Williams »

Julie T wrote:IMHO
Remind me, what does the H stand for?
User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Matt Morrison »

David Williams wrote:
Julie T wrote:IMHO
Remind me, what does the H stand for?
Honest
User avatar
Michael Wallace
Racoonteur
Posts: 5458
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:01 am
Location: London

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Michael Wallace »

David Williams wrote:
Julie T wrote:IMHO
Remind me, what does the H stand for?
Statistically speaking...
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Matt Morrison wrote:
David Williams wrote:
Julie T wrote:IMHO
Remind me, what does the H stand for?
Honest
The card said humble! Cheater!!
User avatar
Matt Morrison
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Matt Morrison »

;) glad you spotted that one - all for you!
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon Corby »

Julie T wrote:Edited to add: I've suffered having 2 teeth extracted this week, so my bullshit detector may be a little below par. ;)
ITYM sarcasm, not bullshit. Maybe that was the teeth as well. (I'll ignore you calling me an arsehole, for now.)
Julie T wrote:IMHO Claire should've been refunded the £150 (or so IIRC) she'd paid in annual payments over the years for a service I'd already paid for. Her mistake, yes, but Amazon certainly contributed to the continuing error by not sending even an annual email regarding the membership and/or fee. I don't receive a reminder either, before my annual payment is taken out - I did point out to them that it would be better business practice if they did.
If you don't receive a reminder either, why aren't you trying to complain and claim back your own Prime membership fee? Is it because you knew that was the deal when you signed up, and you still want the membership? Yet Amazon are supposed to know that this is the case for you, but not for your daughter? And they're even supposed to know that she definitely didn't want her own membership even though she was invited to join yours yet chose to sign up for her own?
Julie T wrote:So I'm supposed to have been happy that we were effectively subsidising others on a higher income than ours?
Beautiful. I'm sure there's lots of taxpayers footing the bill for your benefits (if you'll excuse the tabloid-style simplification) who wait a few days for their Amazon deliveries because they would consider the Prime membership an extravagance that they couldn't really afford/justify.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Is it just me who reads Amazon Prime as Apterous Prime every time I visit this thread?
User avatar
Phil Reynolds
Postmaster General
Posts: 3329
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Phil Reynolds »

Ryan Taylor wrote:Is it just me who reads Amazon Prime as Apterous Prime every time I visit this thread?
Haha. I look forward to the launch of 'Amazon Prune'.
User avatar
Lesley Hines
Kiloposter
Posts: 1250
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:29 pm
Location: Worcester

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Lesley Hines »

Just to keep this vaguely on-topic (although thanks Julie for possibly the most finely-crafted irony I've ever read), if you paid for it with Paypal or a credit card (NB not debit) you may have some protection there. You're entitled to a refund and should be able to return it at their cost if the goods are faulty. Explain to whichever nice financial people you used that the goods are faulty and it's in dispute and you should get your money back. Also seller feedback is your friend.
Lowering the averages since 2009
David Williams
Kiloposter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Williams »

Lesley Hines wrote:Just to keep this vaguely on-topic (although thanks Julie for possibly the most finely-crafted irony I've ever read), if you paid for it with Paypal or a credit card (NB not debit) you may have some protection there. You're entitled to a refund and should be able to return it at their cost if the goods are faulty. Explain to whichever nice financial people you used that the goods are faulty and it's in dispute and you should get your money back. Also seller feedback is your friend.
Are you sure about this? Assuming we're talking about the same thing, I once had a computer that went on the blink at the same time as the vendor went bust. I had to send it back at my own expense (even though there was no-one there to receive it) and provide proof of postage to the credit card company, who then refunded just the original purchase cost. I also have a feeling it only applies for amounts over £100.

I imagine you're a pretty good judge of finely-crafted irony.
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

Jon Corby wrote: Beautiful. I'm sure there's lots of taxpayers footing the bill for your benefits (if you'll excuse the tabloid-style simplification) who wait a few days for their Amazon deliveries because they would consider the Prime membership an extravagance that they couldn't really afford/justify.
Oh, I'm so sorry, Jon. In future I'll send you all my bank statements and you can tell me exactly what's OK and what's not. I'll be so grateful for your input and advice.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
David Williams
Kiloposter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Williams »

Julie T wrote:Oh, I'm so sorry, Jon. In future I'll send you all my bank statements and you can tell me exactly what's OK and what's not. I'll be so grateful for your input and advice.
I think it's your daughter who needs some help checking her bank statements.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

Phil Reynolds wrote:
Ryan Taylor wrote:Is it just me who reads Amazon Prime as Apterous Prime every time I visit this thread?
Haha. I look forward to the launch of 'Amazon Prune'.
I was going to say something about Amazon Prime not being as good as Amazon Rex, but then forgot. There's no point now, of course.
User avatar
JimBentley
Fanatic
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by JimBentley »

Gavin Chipper wrote:Let's say you've bought two game controllers from an American seller on eBay. They turn out to be basically rubbish. One of them breaks within a day, and the other one, while not yet broken, is unrepsonsive and basically rubbish. The seller offers to replace them, but it is a rubbish product, so any replacement will be rubbish and will break. Is the buyer entitled to a refund of both product and postage?

If someone sent you a piece of gravel instead of a controller, it would be no good for them to keep replacing it with another piece of gravel, because a piece of gravel is not the product that was advertised and paid for. A crap controller is also not what was advertised and paid for. A crap controller might be closer to a proper controller than a piece of gravel is, but it's not close enough.
I'm guessing they weren't a reputable brand. Were they unusually cheap for the type of item they are? I once bought a USB memory stick from some dodgy fucker in Hong Kong which was about a third the price of a branded one, and whilst it appeared to work at first, it insisted on formatting itself every time it was inserted, which kind of defeated the object. It was only a few quid, so I just chucked it in the bin in the end, but it did teach me not to blindly buy cheapoid tat on the internet. I'd just chalk it up to experience and move on.
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon Corby »

Julie T wrote:
Jon Corby wrote: Beautiful. I'm sure there's lots of taxpayers footing the bill for your benefits (if you'll excuse the tabloid-style simplification) who wait a few days for their Amazon deliveries because they would consider the Prime membership an extravagance that they couldn't really afford/justify.
Oh, I'm so sorry, Jon. In future I'll send you all my bank statements and you can tell me exactly what's OK and what's not. I'll be so grateful for your input and advice.
My sarcasm detector is also on the blink because, er... I bit the inside of my mouth earlier, or something. So I've prepared two responses to cover both eventualities:

If you were being sarcastic: that was posted in response to you bitching that the amount of benefits you received, particularly in comparison to somebody who might be earning slightly more than you. It's a way of saying "it's a bit rich for you to complain about a system under which you're able to not only afford £49 p.a. to get your Amazon deliveries slightly quicker, but actually pay twice that and not even realise". Surely you can see why that might rankle?

If you weren't being sarcastic: I'd be happy to help. In advance of receipt of the first statement, I'm already advising cutting back on takeaways and junk food.
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Charlie Reams »

Julie T wrote:
Jon Corby wrote: Beautiful. I'm sure there's lots of taxpayers footing the bill for your benefits (if you'll excuse the tabloid-style simplification) who wait a few days for their Amazon deliveries because they would consider the Prime membership an extravagance that they couldn't really afford/justify.
Oh, I'm so sorry, Jon. In future I'll send you all my bank statements and you can tell me exactly what's OK and what's not. I'll be so grateful for your input and advice.
I love the double-think of the entitled. "I don't have enough money, other people should be legally compelled to give me theirs. But don't you dare tell me what I should do with it. I NEED MY DVDS QUICKLY."

Basically, you're the reason people vote Tory.
David Williams
Kiloposter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Williams »

And arguments like that are the reason people vote anything but Tory.
User avatar
Julie T
Kiloposter
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Julie T »

David Williams wrote:And arguments like that are the reason people vote anything but Tory.
Thanks, David, and may I add "or buy the Daily Mail", although some of the comments at the end of 'The Times Online' benefits articles aren't much better:
"How dare that woman bringing up a disabled son say she needs her benefits - I can see both a TV and a computer behind her in the picture"
"Handouts should be food vouchers and that's it", etc etc
Although plenty of supportive comments for claimants too. It's only benefits cheats who everyone are against.

So as hopefully not to bore other forumites rigid, I'm going to make this my last comment on this thread to reply to Jon and Charlie and any others who might agree with them:

1) My initial comment was simply about the fact that my daughter (in a similar way to Karen) is able to take a more relaxed attitude than myself when given the shitty end of the stick in dealings with retailers.

2) Karen's misunderstanding of my gripe, and then my misunderstanding of Jon's piss-take, meant that I went into a rather more detailed explanation of finances than necessary.

3) Yes, Jon, it is being an arsehole to take the piss when you know that your victim is not one of your cronies who love doing it to each other (ooh er!), but someone who, from past experience on the forum, you know full well thinks that behaviour despicable. It's an inalienable human right to be able to disagree with someone on an issue, but taking the piss is being an arsehole.

4)The disputed back years of double payments (about £150 over the 4 years) were taken from a hard working young woman paying tax and National Insurance, although surviving on benefits is not an excuse for others to rip you off.

5) If you bother to look beyond "ooh, she's moaning about benefits" in my housing benefits gripe, you'll see that it would be equivalent to an employee being assessed for tax on their best 6 weeks pay, and a weekly amount set for the whole year, and then being unable even to claim a rebate at the end of the tax year if their earnings had gone down. Then being told "others have earnt more than you, but paid less tax than you - isn't that wonderful?" And yes, I have also worked and paid taxes and National Insurance in the past, as did and does my XH, so I know what I'm talking about.

6) Of course I was being sarcastic about wanting financial advice - retaliation being rather different to starting a piss-take, which seems to be the only language you understand.

7) The way I spend my money is my decision, as long as my children are warm, fed, housed and clothed. Individual spending choices are my own perogative. However, I have put the Amazon Prime thing out there, so I'll explain. I choose to pay £49 a year for next day delivery for the whole family. I'm not sure if it's the same all over the country, but before Prime Delivery, stuff could take ages to arrive, delivery notes stuck on the door even if we were in at the time, having to drive to warehouses on industrial estates in the middle of nowhere to pick up the goods, etc.
With Prime, it's not only quicker, but they seem to try harder - ages since I got a delivery card (from Amazon anyway). Less than £1 a week seems to be a small price to pay for the reduction in aggravation. I'm sure I might not dream of spending £49 on some things others might buy, but I wouldn't say they shouldn't spend it if they have the money whether through savings, earnings or legitimately claimed benefits.
Indeed, some of the items are DVDs and other Birthday and Christmas presents, as most people buy from time to time. Some are also necessary household items, educational stuff to do with Home Ed, and stuff to cope with my autistic son's disabilities, and to ease my arthritis (which also makes internet shopping the least painful choice). I said I didn't need to justify my spending! Ah, well, there you go.

8) As you both know full well, I claim benefits because one of my sons is severely disabled. He needs myself and some help from my other children to care for him 24/7, as likely he will for the rest of his life. I stopped feeling humble about claiming benefits a long time ago. Unlikely given my own health problems, but If I went out to work, the necessary care home costs for Robert (not to mention the emotional cost to himself) would cost the taxpayer a damn sight more than the benefits I receive. Too right taxpayers or anyone else should not get a say in how I spend it - what kind of way would that be to live long term? Not to mention the huge admin costs that would be involved in the government assessing every benefit claimant's budget.

9) I've said my piece and shall say no more on the subject. Sorry your thread got hijacked, Gavin, and I hope you get some redress for your faulty goods.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Benjamin Disraeli
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon O'Neill »

This is just... ugh.
User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Craig Beevers »

Hmm I see the clique is circling again. Just out of curiosity is Corby just as big a cunt in person as he is on here?
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Who is calling who cunts and arseholes?
User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Craig Beevers »

Jon O'Neill wrote:Who is calling who cunts and arseholes?
Pretty much every sane person who isn't one of the odious clique would agree that Corby on here is a cunt. I don't think there's any serious doubt about that. I'm pretty much irrelevant to that reality. I accept that one of the strategies on here is to endlessly harass and attack people that disagree with you because for intelligent people you lot can't argue for shit or simply choose not to.

The whole poisonous atmosphere that you lot create is what stops the tournaments and Apterous from becoming a lot more successful. I have no personal investment in that scene, and I don't personally see the point once you've done with being on Countdown but perhaps some of you care about Charlie's, Ben's and others time and effort being better rewarded.
User avatar
Mark Deeks
Fanatic
Posts: 2443
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:15 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Mark Deeks »

I like Jon.
Eoin Monaghan wrote:
He may not be liked on here, but you have to give some credit to Mark
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Mark James »

Craig Beevers wrote:
Jon O'Neill wrote:Who is calling who cunts and arseholes?
Pretty much every sane person who isn't one of the odious clique would agree that Corby on here is a cunt. I don't think there's any serious doubt about that. I'm pretty much irrelevant to that reality. I accept that one of the strategies on here is to endlessly harass and attack people that disagree with you because for intelligent people you lot can't argue for shit or simply choose not to.

The whole poisonous atmosphere that you lot create is what stops the tournaments and Apterous from becoming a lot more successful. I have no personal investment in that scene, and I don't personally see the point once you've done with being on Countdown but perhaps some of you care about Charlie's, Ben's and others time and effort being better rewarded.
I can't think of anyone I don't like on here (Even Rhys). It's an internet forum. Not everyone is gonna agree with everyone else all of the time. I wouldn't call that a poisonous atmosphere. I've had my own "run-ins" with Corby but I still think he's sound. He doesn't seem the kind of guy who takes things personally or too seriously. I also thought Julie T's response was quite good even though I dont' agree that her daughter was inconvenienced.

I'm sure at times people will post things without putting a huge amount of thought into it, whether it be a genuine point someone wants to make or because they think someone might find it amusing. I can't see the point in getting hung up on any of it.
David Barnard
Enthusiast
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Barnard »

Unfortunately I disagree with Craig on this one, Jon seems like a funny guy, he is obviously after a bit of banter, I think he is a character you either like or you don't but I quite like him. Every forum has these characters and I am a member of a golfing forum and we have those characters on there but we have all met in person and I can say that it is all too easy to write things behind a computer screen that you wouldn't say face to face. Maybe this is what happened?
User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Craig Beevers »

Hmm straw man arguments and people effectively saying being funny = good guy. Fun. I don't think you realise how many people have been hounded off this site or simply haven't bothered joining in in the first place. People don't have to be a bully or be nasty to be funny. I'm sure they're busy tearing into each other in their clique, but it's unnecessary to essentially bully new members or people they've decided to dislike for some petty reason.
User avatar
Innis Carson
Devotee
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:24 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Innis Carson »

David Barnard wrote:Unfortunately I disagree with Craig on this one, Jon seems like a funny guy, he is obviously after a bit of banter, I think he is a character you either like or you don't but I quite like him. Every forum has these characters and I am a member of a golfing forum and we have those characters on there but we have all met in person and I can say that it is all too easy to write things behind a computer screen that you wouldn't say face to face. Maybe this is what happened?
This is exactly what I used to think, but it's not as simple as that unfortunately.

Craig is right to some extent I'm afraid. Surely you guys can understand that having the forum purposely structured in such a way that a few specific members are able and encouraged to air gripes in a hidden and blameless environment, allowing them to build up support before bringing it onto the visible forum, while everyone else has to put their neck on the line if they want to say anything, leads to a unbalanced environment and the formation (or at least, appearance) of a clique?

Admittedly I don't know if this is still the situation, don't have a solution to the problem, and can't reasonably blame anyone for it being like it is, but it needs to be at least recognised that it is - and that it's entirely understandable that people would feel frustrated, and possibly put off the community entirely, by it. To act like the situation doesn't exist, and anyone who feels aggrieved is just some insecure whiner, would be dishonest.
User avatar
Charlie Reams
Site Admin
Posts: 9494
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Charlie Reams »

Innis Carson wrote:Surely you guys can understand that having the forum purposely structured in such a way that a few specific members are able and encouraged to air gripes in a hidden and blameless environment, allowing them to build up support before bringing it onto the visible forum, while everyone else has to put their neck on the line if they want to say anything, leads to a unbalanced environment and the formation (or at least, appearance) of a clique?
No, I don't understand. What are you actually complaining about? If you refuse to participate in any social setting with existing friendship groups then you'll be in for a fairly solitary existence. There's nothing preventing anyone else from having a private forum and forming their own "clique" around that. I can't imagine many people will be queuing up to hear more from Craig Beevers and Julie T but I won't stop you from trying.
Ryan Taylor
Postmaster General
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Wow. This topic has boomed. It's always amazing how the most unassuming of topics end up getting added to the history pile that defines c4c.
David Barnard
Enthusiast
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Barnard »

On our forum the same sort of things happen, it starts off as a perfectly reasonable thread and then something is said and then someone says something off topic and then someone says something and it goes out of control. The best thing is to laugh about it because you need to take whatever people say with a pinch of salt because stuff that is said on a forum probably wont be said face to face.
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon O'Neill »

David Barnard wrote:On our forum the same sort of things happen, it starts off as a perfectly reasonable thread and then something is said and then someone says something off topic and then someone says something and it goes out of control. The best thing is to laugh about it because you need to take whatever people say with a pinch of salt because stuff that is said on a forum probably wont be said face to face.
I don't think anyone in here has said anything they wouldn't say in person, to be honest. It's just the clash of personality disorders that causes friction.
User avatar
Craig Beevers
Series 57 Champion
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Craig Beevers »

Charlie Reams wrote:No, I don't understand. What are you actually complaining about? If you refuse to participate in any social setting with existing friendship groups then you'll be in for a fairly solitary existence. There's nothing preventing anyone else from having a private forum and forming their own "clique" around that. I can't imagine many people will be queuing up to hear more from Craig Beevers and Julie T but I won't stop you from trying.
It is not so much the private forum, it's the way the clique acts on here. The behaviour is the root cause of the problems, the private forum is just one of the symptoms. Although to some extent the private forum probably encourages twattish behaviour, a gang mentality is nearly always more dangerous than an individual one. I find it quite intriguing that instead of asking yourselves why you have a private forum to act like overgrown schoolchildren you are suggesting everyone else should have one.

Since you're going to name me I think you're the biggest waste of potential here. You've actually found something early on in life that you want to pursue as a career as well as the ability to do it, had a great education, get a comfortable life and experience the world. I'm sure you will accomplish a great deal in your life, far more than most. It's just a great pity you act in such a judgemental and classless way. You more than anyone else should be above all the crap that goes on here.
User avatar
Jon O'Neill
Ginger Ninja
Posts: 4545
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:45 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon O'Neill »

Craig Beevers wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:No, I don't understand. What are you actually complaining about? If you refuse to participate in any social setting with existing friendship groups then you'll be in for a fairly solitary existence. There's nothing preventing anyone else from having a private forum and forming their own "clique" around that. I can't imagine many people will be queuing up to hear more from Craig Beevers and Julie T but I won't stop you from trying.
It is not so much the private forum, it's the way the clique acts on here. The behaviour is the root cause of the problems, the private forum is just one of the symptoms. Although to some extent the private forum probably encourages twattish behaviour, a gang mentality is nearly always more dangerous than an individual one. I find it quite intriguing that instead of asking yourselves why you have a private forum to act like overgrown schoolchildren you are suggesting everyone else should have one.

Since you're going to name me I think you're the biggest waste of potential here. You've actually found something early on in life that you want to pursue as a career as well as the ability to do it, had a great education, get a comfortable life and experience the world. I'm sure you will accomplish a great deal in your life, far more than most. It's just a great pity you act in such a judgemental and classless way. You more than anyone else should be above all the crap that goes on here.
As a non-Charlie member of the clique, this is the most offended I've ever been by one of your posts.
User avatar
Innis Carson
Devotee
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:24 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Innis Carson »

Charlie Reams wrote: No, I don't understand. What are you actually complaining about? If you refuse to participate in any social setting with existing friendship groups then you'll be in for a fairly solitary existence. There's nothing preventing anyone else from having a private forum and forming their own "clique" around that. I can't imagine many people will be queuing up to hear more from Craig Beevers and Julie T but I won't stop you from trying.
My post wasn't meant to be a complaint about the existence of the private forum, of course you have every right to have private conversations with friends, it was just what I think is an explanation for what a lot of people have observed about the atmosphere on this forum. There have been several past incidents (I think Clare Sudbery was one) where, to me, it appeared that a wave of forum regulars came out of nowhere with a strangely homogeneous barrage of personal attacks, with barely any provocation. And then another new member would join, and the same regulars would chase them off in the same way, again for seemingly no reason. Countless other members made observations to this effect too. The revelation that there was a private subforum, wherein all these regulars would discuss and form collective opinions about other members behind their backs, explained everything.

Perhaps to you these attacks seemed entirely justified and reasonable, and perhaps they were, but to 90% of the forum they just seemed to come out of nowhere, because most of the development was hidden from us. This, I think, is the real reason why so many people see this forum as vicious and cliquey, and perhaps why you don't really understand when people complain about it.

As for why this isn't such a problem in other social groups, I don't really know, perhaps the ratio of private posts to visible posts was just particularly high here. This isn't anyone's fault, it's just the nature of this forum, and I think a lot of confusion on both 'sides' would be avoided if people were more aware of it.
Gavin Chipper
Post-apocalypse
Posts: 13213
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:37 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Gavin Chipper »

I think the Sanctum on here is slightly different from a group of other forumers starting their own private forum elsewhere. Because it's part of this forum (which is basically the only online Countdown discussion group), it makes it look like there's an inbuilt in-crowd and it can look a bit cuntish. Not that this is necessarily the reason for what's gone on here. Just saying, you know.

Craig, having met Corby in real life, I think he's great, in real life. I think he's alright on here sometimes too, and I've always got on with him, but I do think some of his arguments go too far. Julie T obviously called him an arsehole as well. And I'm sure there have been discussions before about people joining in just to pick off what they consider to be easy prey. I think that's always the worst bit.
Mark James
Kiloposter
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Mark James »

Innis Carson wrote: My post wasn't meant to be a complaint about the existence of the private forum, of course you have every right to have private conversations with friends, it was just what I think is an explanation for what a lot of people have observed about the atmosphere on this forum.
I'm still bemused as to what this "atmosphere" is supposed to be. This is the only internet forum I can be bothered to read through and contribute to on a regular basis and that's purely to do with the people on it.
David Williams
Kiloposter
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 pm

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by David Williams »

Jon O'Neill wrote:I don't think anyone in here has said anything they wouldn't say in person, to be honest. It's just the clash of personality disorders that causes friction.
Quoted solely because when I first read it I didn't notice the word "disorders". So true!
User avatar
Jon Corby
Moral Hero
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:36 am

Re: Buying faulty crap off eBay - where do you stand?

Post by Jon Corby »

Craig Beevers wrote:Pretty much every sane person who isn't one of the odious clique would agree that Corby on here is a cunt.
Well, it would seem not (thanks guys), although there are also polls to back this up, which I've got framed in front of me now. And yet I know loads of people that think you're one. Both from your interaction on here, and from people that have met you. That's not good, is it?

Look, I wrote a very mildly sarcastic response to Julie's original quibble which said "yes, I can see why you're annoyed about [x]", knowing full well that [x] hadn't happened at all. (Even Julie's own daughter apparently concedes blame and knows they don't warrant a refund.) And I got called an arsehole for that, so I retaliated. And then you joined in trying to round on me, for some reason. And yet I'm supposed to be the bad guy again?
Craig Beevers wrote:I have no personal investment in that scene, and I don't personally see the point once you've done with being on Countdown
Well thank god you've stuck around here then. I'd have no idea how much you disliked me & Rafa Benitez otherwise. Which do you hate more?

As for Innis's point - I actually think I can see what you mean, to a degree. I reckon this forum might be quite unusual (I don't know for sure) in that we aren't just a load of people who facelessly log on to discuss things. A lot of us know each other really well, meet up regularly, and are proper friends. Therefore it's kind of inevitable that the interaction between these people won't just be confined to the public forum. I can't see what you think the solution should be to this, other than "don't be friends with each other".

I have actively toned myself down on the forum recently, so I have no idea what Craig has suddenly got so upset about. I don't particularly recall ever publicly having a go at Julie, yet I do remember her saying that I'm permanently vile, and now calling me an arsehole, so why should I refrain when she's started it?


Is any of this helping btw Gev? Why don't you just send your vendor a link to this thread saying "look what you've done!"? They might feel bad.
Post Reply