Countdown Manifesto

Discuss anything interesting but not remotely Countdown-related here.

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Michael Wallace
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Countdown Manifesto

Post by Michael Wallace » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:50 pm

If you were running for Parliament, then obviously Countdown would be one of your primary policy areas. So what would go in your Countdown Manifesto? Would you ban certain guests from DC? Demand gender equality by employing a male numbers-girl for 2 and a half shows a week? Cut the number of rounds to help the country out of the recession?

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, so hopefully you lot will provide.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Charlie Reams » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:54 pm

(AMNIOTES + F)

Compulsory recognition of US spellings on equal footing to UK spelling in all areas of life, reflecting the rich flavo(u)r of global English.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Ian Volante » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:56 am

Charlie Reams wrote:(AMNIOTES + F)

Compulsory recognition of US spellings on equal footing to UK spelling in all areas of life, reflecting the rich flavo(u)r of global English.
To balance the crazy tea party-ish suggestion above, I'd propose a return to olde English spelyng, although this legislation is currently in draught form only.
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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jeff Clayton » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:53 pm

Quite simply, that Countdown has a place on the airwaves for all the good things that it stands for. Before you started campaigning however, you would have to address the limited educational value of the maths bit - given that the co-presenter is still using the equals sign inappropriately after almost two years - but you can comfortably point to Countdown as a very good example of broadening vocabulary and language skills, delivering entertainment, and championing people who use their brain.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Michael Wallace » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:09 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:given that the co-presenter is still using the equals sign inappropriately after almost two years
:?:

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Howard Somerset » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:13 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:
Jeff Clayton wrote:given that the co-presenter is still using the equals sign inappropriately after almost two years
:?:
Writing things like:
6 x 75 = 450 + 4 = 454

I'm sure Carol used to do the same thing.

It's very common nowadays, and I'm sure many schools use that method. Though I've yet to see it in a text book.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by David Williams » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:19 pm

Under my administration, Countdown will

Reinforce cultural stereotypes. Middle-aged men are bumbling idiots, young women like shopping.

Denigrate hard work. Anyone prepared to put time and effort into improving their play shall be treated as slightly odd.

Mislead the public. By feeding celebrities words and applauding them for reading aloud.

Exercise subtle mind control. By persuading people that anagrams are actually conundrums.

Cut expenditure. Savagely, in the case of at least one employee.

I predict a landslide.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Charlie Reams » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:33 pm

David Williams wrote:Cut expenditure. Savagely, in the case of at least one employee.
I'd think of it more as a social justice issue, reducing the wage disparity between the highest- and lowest-earners.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Ben Wilson » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:52 pm

David Williams wrote:Under my administration, Countdown will

Reinforce cultural stereotypes. Middle-aged men are bumbling idiots, young women like shopping.

Denigrate hard work. Anyone prepared to put time and effort into improving their play shall be treated as slightly odd.

Mislead the public. By feeding celebrities words and applauding them for reading aloud.

Exercise subtle mind control. By persuading people that anagrams are actually conundrums.

Cut expenditure. Savagely, in the case of at least one employee.

I predict a landslide.
At the moment, under your username it says 'Enthusiast' and that might just be the most ironic thing I've seen all year.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by David Williams » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:54 am

Ben Wilson wrote:
David Williams wrote:Under my administration, Countdown will

Reinforce cultural stereotypes. Middle-aged men are bumbling idiots, young women like shopping.

Denigrate hard work. Anyone prepared to put time and effort into improving their play shall be treated as slightly odd.

Mislead the public. By feeding celebrities words and applauding them for reading aloud.

Exercise subtle mind control. By persuading people that anagrams are actually conundrums.

Cut expenditure. Savagely, in the case of at least one employee.

I predict a landslide.
At the moment, under your username it says 'Enthusiast' and that might just be the most ironic thing I've seen all year.
But I've still got your vote, right? You do support these policies?

Just between ourselves I'm planning a bit of Kosovo-style social cleansing in this forum after I'm elected, but no need to mention that just yet.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jon O'Neill » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:04 am

Howard Somerset wrote:
Michael Wallace wrote:
Jeff Clayton wrote:given that the co-presenter is still using the equals sign inappropriately after almost two years
:?:
Writing things like:
6 x 75 = 450 + 4 = 454

I'm sure Carol used to do the same thing.

It's very common nowadays, and I'm sure many schools use that method. Though I've yet to see it in a text book.
This offends me, too. Carol used to at least write on a new line when she was using a previous number so it would be laid out like this:

Code: Select all

6*75 = 450
      + 4
      -----
      454

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Howard Somerset » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:31 am

So she did, Jono. Marginally more acceptable.

But pretty well every kid I know now writes such strings. I used to challenge it, but they all say that's how their teachers do it.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Charlie Reams » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:16 pm

David Williams wrote:But I've still got your vote, right? You do support these policies?
Haha, I like how you were so transparently disappointed that no one took the bait of your original post. Keep trying dude!

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by David Williams » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:43 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
David Williams wrote:But I've still got your vote, right? You do support these policies?
Haha, I like how you were so transparently disappointed that no one took the bait of your original post. Keep trying dude!
Thanks for noticing.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Martin Bishop » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:07 am

Move Countdown later in the afternoon.

Ban Deal or No Deal.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jeff Clayton » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:40 pm

Howard Somerset wrote:
Michael Wallace wrote:
Jeff Clayton wrote:given that the co-presenter is still using the equals sign inappropriately after almost two years
:?:
Writing things like:
6 x 75 = 450 + 4 = 454

I'm sure Carol used to do the same thing.

You're quite right - she did, and for longer than the first two years. So this isn't about "I hate Rachel / bring Carol back", this is "do your job properly and you will earn your money" - perfectly in tune with the current political mood.

If this program has educational value and a reputation for making learning fun, then it's misleading its pilgrims at the moment.

Surely that's worth undoing on election day.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Rhys Benjamin » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:45 pm

CHANGE IS GOOD!

Remember the good old days of Countdown? Where lexicographers rotated and it was 9 rounds? Well you can forget the FEAR of sleeping during 15-round Countdown! The answer IS here!







P.S. I hope Damian Reads this topic ;)
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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Michael Wallace » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:58 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:If this program has educational value and a reputation for making learning fun, then it's misleading its pilgrims at the moment.
Maybe I don't know much about maths, but why is it such a big deal?

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:06 pm

Michael Wallace wrote:
Jeff Clayton wrote:If this program has educational value and a reputation for making learning fun, then it's misleading its pilgrims at the moment.
Maybe I don't know much about maths, but why is it such a big deal?
Yeah, I don't think people will actually think that 6 * 75 = 450 + 4. Is it any worse than "times by"?

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Ben Hunter » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:02 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:You're quite right - she did, and for longer than the first two years. So this isn't about "I hate Rachel / bring Carol back", this is "do your job properly and you will earn your money" - perfectly in tune with the current political mood.
She'll earn her money because she's doing a brilliant job as both an arithmetician and a TV personality. You'd have to be a moron to not pay her because god forbid she writes out the solutions to reflect what the contestant is saying to her.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Charlie Reams » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:30 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:"do your job properly and you will earn your money"
:?

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Oliver Garner » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:35 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:given that the co-presenter is still using the equals sign inappropriately after almost two years
The way I view this (and other things in life) is by asking myself 'Is it obvious what she means from what is there despite it not following the correct protocol?' I'm sure you'd agree that in this case the answer is yes, as in many cases where people take issue with 'mistakes' such as this. I would also extend this to incorrect speling; punctuation or grammer. where pepole can make themselves understod despit not followin strict rules on such mattaz. INNIT

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Mike Brown » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:31 am

Rhys Benjamin wrote:Remember the good old days of Countdown? Where lexicographers rotated and it was 9 rounds?
Sorry no, I can't remember Susie Dent ever spinning round and round in her chair, must have slipped my mind. Sounds like fun, though, although it might get boring after one or two programmes. :)

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Kirk Bevins » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:45 am

My kids in my top set year 9 queried this in one lesson and asked "doesn't it annoy you, Sir, that Rachel Riley writes several equals line on one line when what's on the left hand side doesn't equal the right hand side." I replied "not really. Yes it's mathematically incorrect but, say you have two 7s in your selection and if you start doing: 3+4=7. 7x25=175, 175+7=182...it may become confusing as it may appear to some people that you've used three 7s. This way is more clear." and some seemed happier after that.

Howard, you have to remember that a lot of teachers love kids more than their subject so won't always write correctly on the board and stuff. Teachers will say 7x9 = 56 and random shit too. Just because a teacher at school does/says it doesn't make it right.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Oliver Garner » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:07 pm

Kirk Bevins wrote:My kids in my top set year 9 queried this in one lesson and asked "doesn't it annoy you, Sir, that Rachel Riley writes several equals line on one line when what's on the left hand side doesn't equal the right hand side." I replied "not really. Yes it's mathematically incorrect but, say you have two 7s in your selection and if you start doing: 3+4=7. 7x25=175, 175+7=182...it may become confusing as it may appear to some people that you've used three 7s. This way is more clear." and some seemed happier after that.

Howard, you have to remember that a lot of teachers love kids more than their subject so won't always write correctly on the board and stuff. Teachers will say 7x9 = 56 and random shit too. Just because a teacher at school does/says it doesn't make it right.
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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Howard Somerset » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:32 pm

I'm delighted to hear that your top year 9 set queried the style, Kirk. It shows they're thinking, and understanding what's happening.

I certainly accept that styles change over the years, and now never query a student when he/she uses this particular method of demonstrating calculations. What does concern me though, is that when they look back through their notes when revising, it could well confuse them when they see two things on either side of an equals sign which are clealy not equal to each other.

I'm quite sure I'll start adopting the style myself at some time in the future, rather like I now find myself saying "times by", having heard it said so many times.

I'll be interested to see when text books start introducing it, though. I think I'll probably die first, but won't bet on it. :)

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Matt Morrison » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:26 pm

Howard Somerset wrote:I now find myself saying "times by", having heard it said so many times.
You should have put "by other people" on the end of that sentence :)

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jeff Clayton » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:54 pm

We had the "times them together" discussion previously and agreed it was valid because it's in the ODE2r. Whether we think it's sloppy or not doesn't really matter.

The "equals" debate, however, is turning out rather different - no-one here knows of "1+1=2+1=3" in any textbook, and doing that flouts a basic arithmetic rule (did someone say maths degree?).

I'm neither a teacher nor a parent but I would be concerned if a child started copying that method "because that's how the lady on the television does it". I distinctly remember one of my early year 7 maths classes, introducing us to fractions, and being pleased when the teacher suggested we should use a horizontal line rather than a diagonal line to separate the numbers because that was how it was done on Countdown.

So let's take Oliver's question, "Is it obvious what she means from what is there despite it not following the correct protocol?" and apply it to someone taking an exam. It could be maths and any discipline you want where you would have to show your working. If a question carries several marks and asks you to show your working, and the process you write out is not quite correct, then you should expect the marker not to award the full points. Dropping the odd mark like that is careless and can make the difference between grades. I wouldn't want my child on the wrong end of that.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Charlie Reams » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:13 pm

Maybe Countdown should come with an 18 rating to prevent such tragedies.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Oliver Garner » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:48 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:We had the "times them together" discussion previously and agreed it was valid because it's in the ODE2r. Whether we think it's sloppy or not doesn't really matter.

The "equals" debate, however, is turning out rather different - no-one here knows of "1+1=2+1=3" in any textbook, and doing that flouts a basic arithmetic rule (did someone say maths degree?).

I'm neither a teacher nor a parent but I would be concerned if a child started copying that method "because that's how the lady on the television does it". I distinctly remember one of my early year 7 maths classes, introducing us to fractions, and being pleased when the teacher suggested we should use a horizontal line rather than a diagonal line to separate the numbers because that was how it was done on Countdown.

So let's take Oliver's question, "Is it obvious what she means from what is there despite it not following the correct protocol?" and apply it to someone taking an exam. It could be maths and any discipline you want where you would have to show your working. If a question carries several marks and asks you to show your working, and the process you write out is not quite correct, then you should expect the marker not to award the full points. Dropping the odd mark like that is careless and can make the difference between grades. I wouldn't want my child on the wrong end of that.
Point taken, but in a maths exam, it is explicit in the mark scheme that correct protocol when doing a method matters and thus, carries marks. That is the rule and it is clearly in the best interest of the student to follow these guidelines. However, Rachel is not in an exam and, as she has limited time and space to write down her's/contestants solutions, she has to do it as quickly, efficiently and clearly as possible and, as Kirk said, doing it the 'proper' method can easily lead to ambiguity. And the argument 'kids may learn bad habits' can only really be used if Countdown is shown at a time that kids are home from school. I live fairly close to mine and I only see the last third if I'm lucky.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Ben Hunter » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:39 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:We had the "times them together" discussion previously and agreed it was valid because it's in the ODE2r. Whether we think it's sloppy or not doesn't really matter.

The "equals" debate, however, is turning out rather different - no-one here knows of "1+1=2+1=3" in any textbook, and doing that flouts a basic arithmetic rule (did someone say maths degree?).

I'm neither a teacher nor a parent but I would be concerned if a child started copying that method "because that's how the lady on the television does it". I distinctly remember one of my early year 7 maths classes, introducing us to fractions, and being pleased when the teacher suggested we should use a horizontal line rather than a diagonal line to separate the numbers because that was how it was done on Countdown.

So let's take Oliver's question, "Is it obvious what she means from what is there despite it not following the correct protocol?" and apply it to someone taking an exam. It could be maths and any discipline you want where you would have to show your working. If a question carries several marks and asks you to show your working, and the process you write out is not quite correct, then you should expect the marker not to award the full points. Dropping the odd mark like that is careless and can make the difference between grades. I wouldn't want my child on the wrong end of that.
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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jon Corby » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:58 pm

FFS, Rachel (or Carol previously) isn't writing a formula that can be re-used, or studied again. She's writing what the contestants tell her, the point being to be able to check that what they've done adds up, and that they haven't re-used any numbers. If she didn't need to write anything down, she wouldn't, but It's too difficult to follow and check without writing something down. Are you suggesting she should start a new line in each case, and rewrite the previous results of operations? Yeah, that'll help the flow. Or maybe she should just start in the middle of the board, so she can add brackets around things as appropriate, so that what's left is a perfect equation.

What a pathetic thing to complain about.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Michael Wallace » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:01 pm

This has turned into the lamest thread ever. Whoever started it should be banned.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jeff Clayton » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:05 pm

My apologies that it's come to be hijacked over one issue.

We forumites are all capable of working out where a contestant's calculation is going one or two moves in, even if we hadn't got it ourselves in the first place, but this forum does not represent the wider viewing audience and the not-so-inclined viewer isn't as sharp. Jon seems to have really misinterpreted this discussion on quality and standards for something about why the numbers board should come with a pad and a marker pen, but I certainly appreciate where Oly is coming from about conditions, though I don't accept it should be difficult for a professional to apply some foresight in their presentation skills and anticipate what a player is going to say.

There is a horrible irony in being shown "how it's done" when that's really not how it should be done. Look again and consider whether there really isn't a better way of doing it.

/soapbox

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by David O'Donnell » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:44 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:My apologies that it's come to be hijacked over one issue.

We forumites are all capable of working out where a contestant's calculation is going one or two moves in, even if we hadn't got it ourselves in the first place, but this forum does not represent the wider viewing audience and the not-so-inclined viewer isn't as sharp. Jon seems to have really misinterpreted this discussion on quality and standards for something about why the numbers board should come with a pad and a marker pen, but I certainly appreciate where Oly is coming from about conditions, though I don't accept it should be difficult for a professional to apply some foresight in their presentation skills and anticipate what a player is going to say.

There is a horrible irony in being shown "how it's done" when that's really not how it should be done. Look again and consider whether there really isn't a better way of doing it.

/soapbox

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Ian Volante » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:57 am

David O'Donnell wrote:
All Countdown fans should be shot or at the very least stabbed.
Can I go for a slash?
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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jon Corby » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:18 pm

Jeff Clayton wrote:My apologies that it's come to be hijacked over one issue.

We forumites are all capable of working out where a contestant's calculation is going one or two moves in, even if we hadn't got it ourselves in the first place, but this forum does not represent the wider viewing audience and the not-so-inclined viewer isn't as sharp. Jon seems to have really misinterpreted this discussion on quality and standards for something about why the numbers board should come with a pad and a marker pen, but I certainly appreciate where Oly is coming from about conditions, though I don't accept it should be difficult for a professional to apply some foresight in their presentation skills and anticipate what a player is going to say.

There is a horrible irony in being shown "how it's done" when that's really not how it should be done. Look again and consider whether there really isn't a better way of doing it.

/soapbox

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It sounds like conundrums are shit at CoLei.

Look again and consider whether there really isn't a better way of doing it.

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Re: Countdown Manifesto

Post by Jeff Clayton » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:21 pm

Feel free to organise yer own event!

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