c4countdown

So, it's finally here. The grand final of the shortest 15 round series to date, but even though it has been much shorter than usual thanks mainly to the horse racing and the 30th Birthday Championships, it's still provided us with some great games and 2 worthy finalists.

In fairness, I think most people who were in the know thought that this would be the grand final when the series began, but it's still nice to see how they went about their business to get to this point.

Both our finalists have 10 centuries apiece and both have individual records too. Giles Hutchings, of course has the all-time highest octototal, and Andy Platt has become the first player in 15 round history to defeat 4 players who scored less than 30 points.

Interestingly, Giles could also break the Xicount record today if he defeats Andy with a score of 128 or more, which would take him above Julian Fell's Xicount total of 1,307 points. Although, that's easier said than done, especially as in the last 4 #1 v #2 seed grand finals, the #2 seed has won on 3 of the 4 matches, the only exception being Jack Hurst in Series 63.

So, prepare yourselves for what promises to be a knockout final

Here are the stats:

Firstly, No.1 Seed Giles "The Farnham Firestorm" Hutchings - 10 Wins, 1,180 Points. (Average: 118)
Highest Score: 130 vs. Alan Flanagan (6th Game)
Lowest Score: 106 vs. Joe McGonigle (Semi-Final)
9's Achieved: 6/9
Total Points/Max/%: 1180/1318 (90%)
Letters Points/Max/%: 732/827 (89%)
Numbers Points/Max/%: 358/391 (92%)
Conundrum Points/Max/%: 90/100 (90%)

Secondly, No.2 Seed Andy "The Salford Superstorm" Platt - 10 Wins, 1,124 Points. (Average: 112.4) (4 Games In 15.3 Format, 6 Games In 15.4 Format)
Highest Score: 120 vs. Josh Young (7th Game) and vs. Eileen Taylor (Semi-Final)
Lowest Score: 100 vs. Daniel Davies (5th Game)
9's Achieved: 6/8
Total Points/Max/%: 1124/1285 (87%)
Letters Points/Max/%: 758/834 (91%)
Numbers Points/Max/%: 316/351 (90%)
Conundrum Points/Max/%: 50/100 (50%)

Thomas will be around for the final recap of the series later.

Couple of interesting facts here:

Firstly Giles recorded his lowest score in his last game (the semis), whilst Andy was scoring his highest score in his last game!

We all - mostly - think Giles is slightly stronger on letters than Andy and vice-versa in the numbers, however, the stats above ironically suggest otherwise!

I'm expecting an absolute CRACKER, can't wait!

PS

Andy seems a hell of a lot more confident than Giles when asked by Nick how they felt about the final, could that be a MASSIVE edge?

I wonder if Giles was thinking about ECOTONE in round 8, I was very surprised ODORIZER wasn't in for round 2.

Good edgy contest so far

I was contemplating ottomen*...

ODORIZER used to be valid, very unlucky

Well done to the COREA 2013 runner up for finally making Champion and well done to Andy for hanging on in there after his slow start.

INSOFAR as an alt in R6, several fives such as AIRER and HIRER in the HEIAU round and HOODIES in R13

Giles wrote:I was contemplating ottomen*...

Ah righto.

Very well played lads, a great final and fitting end to another series. Many congrats Giles on becoming champ and well done to Andy also , very unlucky there with the last numbers and ODORIZER. Well done to the Countdown Team on another great series.

I like to add my congratulations to both Giles and Andy in what looked like a very nervous final. Well done guys.

Mauro

Congratulations to Giles and Andy for reaching the final and for making it a closely-fought, tense final. Unfortunate with how the numbers games and ODORIZER fell for you Andy but well done to Giles on some correct decision making in a situation where the human brain is prone to making rash and silly judgement calls. To me, Giles was a fitting winner with being the record holder, and his work on apterous with regards to the regulation of valid/invalid words is rewarded with that trophy. Well done to both of you!

Great final, a worthy end to the series, congrats to both for some fabulous entertainment!

Unlucky Andy, particularly with ODORIZER^ as I know you'd have stuck with ODORIZE if Giles had declared his six first. These incidents can have huge bearing on the outcome of the match which is part of the game but at the same time, unfortunate for one player. You've been a great contestant though, I've loved your numerous sky high numbers solutions, even if some people don't understand you correctly, as well as some of your letters offerings, particularly ISOBUTANE.

Ultimately though, you'd have to say that Giles is a fully deserving winner as he holds the octochamp total record and has been outstanding throughout his run. Congratulations on becoming the series champion! You've brushed aside most of your opponents despite (in my opinion) having a stronger than usual standard to deal with and held your nerve when you've been run close in your quarter final and the final. Your conundrum speed has also been phenomenal at times which has left me struggling to keep up with you.

I'll add my praise for the Countdown team for their fantastic work yet again. It may have been a short series but it's been great for quality after the 30th Birthday Championship. Long may it continue!

James Robinson wrote:So, it's finally here. The grand final of the shortest 15 round series to date

I think it's joint as it had the same number of episodes as series 46, so that's an interesting fact. (You might want to check that though.)

But anyway, two great players in the final. It probably wasn't the greatest actual game of all time but both players still did very well, and particularly over the series as whole and as others have said, Andy was unlucky, particularly with ODORIZER when ODORIZE would have won the round anyway. Well done both.

Well done lads. Great final plaid in a very sporting fashion. Hard luck Andy on 'odorizer'' but you had to go for it.

So tense! It was clear you were both feeling the pressure, which made the game all the more exciting to watch. And with that in consideration, you both managed to keep up a very good standard of play (MANGONEL was lovely) in a game with some very daunting rounds. Knowing Andy's 4L powers, the game was always very much in contention, right up until he himself declared it over.

I can only imagine it must have been a very frustrating game Andy, but you handled it with great calmness and grace. You came across as thoroughly pleasant, and I'm sure even Twitter will have a hard time coming up with a reason to disagree. Congrats on an excellent run and a great fight.

And of course, congrats to Giles for a stunning performance throughout the series and a well-earned victory. It was really charming how happy you looked to have won!

All in all, fantastic episode. Well done guys.

Well done both! A great final and a great end to the series.

I echo what has already been said.

The 2 best players in the series - both Giles and Andy deserved to get to the final.

Congratulations to Giles on winning a close fought game.

Cheers guys! I think Ryan (amongst others) hit the nail on the head there.

Gutted obviously, but you gotta say Giles is the deserved winner - the octototal record, the word knowledge, the decision making, and keeping his cool to max all the numbers games in the final. Even though I got the exact pick I wanted with the 9th letter in two of my five letters rounds (namely BEMOANED & MANGONEL), I still couldn't keep up. GG, WP, TY.

I guess we'll never know exactly how the game would have turned out if I didn't play ODORIZER^, especially with it happening so early in the game, but in at least a few of those parallel universes I guess I'd have pinched it, as that mistake cost a whopping 13 points. There is however no guarantee I'd have got the conundrum if it was crucial, as Giles said to me after the game that he had it too, but he hesitated a bit - my instinct says he blatantly wouldn't have done so if it was crucial!
(NB, as an interesting side note, Giles missed it on apterous a week before filming. I had it twice in January, missing it the first time and solving it the second time, so that was an interesting choice, if of course Damian noticed its history as a word on apterous)

Apologies that I couldn't force a crucial, which would have obviously been much more exciting and tense for the neutral. Not that I should feel a need to apologise but you know, Countdown's an entertainment show at the end of the day, and in plain terms, me not being stupid in R2 would have seen a more entertaining show!

And of course cheers to the whole team for looking after us during our brief moment in the sun, it was a pleasure.


PS - just finished watching the end back - they recorded the presentation bit 2 or 3 times - I was hoping they were going to use the one with the man hug in it!
Maybe it didn't look quite as good or professional or whatever on TV.

PPS - sounds like they cut the enormous, clearly audible (even from the studio floor) groan from all the apterites when the E didn't come out in the PARISON/SOPRANO (ie PINAFORES) round, haha

Really tense, super final guys - great to watch!

Congrats to Giles who is undoubtedly a worthy and fantastic champion, your word knowledge is second to none! And congrats also to Andy (hey, the coolest people are always runners-up )

Roll on the next series! #TeamJen

Andy Platt wrote:(NB, as an interesting side note, Giles missed it on apterous a week before filming. I had it twice in January, missing it the first time and solving it the second time, so that was an interesting choice, if of course Damian noticed its history as a word on apterous)

I'm pretty sure the finals conundrums are compiled without reference to apterous now.

Andy Platt wrote:PS - just finished watching the end back - they recorded the presentation bit 2 or 3 times - I was hoping they were going to use the one with the man hug in it!
Maybe it didn't look quite as good or professional or whatever on TV.

I thought they were going to use that as well.

Huge congratulations Giles, and credit to Andy for keeping the pressure on throughout the game. Although it wasn't a crucial, a final that hinged on a word that came out in the last edition of the dictionary is a very close one indeed.

Good shit boys. Well done and that.

One of those finals for me that really needed to be best of three or more. Beforehand I could see either of them winning fairly comfortably, depending on what came up. Both brilliant, but both just occasionally fallible. I think they'd make a great doubles team - maxes all the way.

I was pleased with SHELTIES, and I wondered if Andy had thought of a punt on HEJIRA when he didn't have a five. 'Hejira' is there as an alternative spelling of 'Hegira', but 'hegira' has no variant spelling specified. Common sense says OK, dictionary says not. Controversy avoided?

Got to say that the subtitle programmer has to be shot. 'Consonantly' rather than 'constantly'. Deary me. And in the way of the conundrum? Blimey.

Eoin Monaghan wrote:(hey, the coolest people are always number 2 seeds )

Better.

Jack Worsley wrote:

Eoin Monaghan wrote:(hey, the coolest people are always number 2 seeds )

Better.

Doesn't take anything away from me so whatever you want!

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Really tense, super final guys - great to watch!

Congrats to Giles who is undoubtedly a worthy and fantastic champion, your word knowledge is second to none! And congrats also to Andy (hey, the coolest people are always runners-up )

Roll on the next series! #TeamJen

WELL FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!

In other news, great job guys - obvs I knew the result beforehand, but really enjoyed watching it Great play from both

Giles was brilliant in this series, and Andy was equally, well played both of you, 'twas a pleasure to watch

Very, very well played, Andy and Giles, and well done for being such good sports. There was little doubt in my mind that you would meet in the Grand Final - although stranger things have happened - and that it would be an extremely close contest. How anyone spots words like mangonel and argosies at all, let alone under that kind of pressure, is beyond me. I like to think that in at least one parallel universe, the forces of "Four Large, the Fun Way" prevailed, and the game went right down to the wire - then, who knows? But anyway, congratulations again to both of you, this was a great game and one that you can look back on with pride... even if the coolest people are, in fact, number 3 seeds

Jack Worsley wrote:Great final, a worthy end to the series, congrats to both for some fabulous entertainment!

Unlucky Andy, particularly with ODORIZER^ as I know you'd have stuck with ODORIZE if Giles had declared his six first. These incidents can have huge bearing on the outcome of the match which is part of the game but at the same time, unfortunate for one player. You've been a great contestant though, I've loved your numerous sky high numbers solutions, even if some people don't understand you correctly, as well as some of your letters offerings, particularly ISOBUTANE.

Ultimately though, you'd have to say that Giles is a fully deserving winner as he holds the octochamp total record and has been outstanding throughout his run. Congratulations on becoming the series champion! You've brushed aside most of your opponents despite (in my opinion) having a stronger than usual standard to deal with and held your nerve when you've been run close in your quarter final and the final. Your conundrum speed has also been phenomenal at times which has left me struggling to keep up with you.

I'll add my praise for the Countdown team for their fantastic work yet again. It may have been a short series but it's been great for quality after the 30th Birthday Championship. Long may it continue!

I was going to make a similar post about yesterday's final but this has saved me the bother as Jack is absolutely spot on with everything here.

I will add that Giles' spot of ARGOSIES was my personal favourite, I thought GASSIER was certain to be the max in that round.

May I add, that in parallel universes, Andy would have won with extravagant and interesting 4L number solves, an infinite number of times!

Zarte Siempre wrote:

Eoin Monaghan wrote:Really tense, super final guys - great to watch!

Congrats to Giles who is undoubtedly a worthy and fantastic champion, your word knowledge is second to none! And congrats also to Andy (hey, the coolest people are always runners-up )

Roll on the next series! #TeamJen

WELL FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!

(I was paid to do it I swear!)

Wow, that was compelling! Both players nicking rounds off the other; Andy was unlucky at the beginning and it may have cost him in the end. Congratulations to Giles on a quite brilliant record-breaking series, and thanks for bookending the serious business of the final with some trademark hair-flicks! Andy, I get the impression from what you've said on these threads that you've had some stick on Twitter or suchlike. All I can say is that you're a top bloke and you always came across as yourself on telly; i.e., a top bloke. I don't understand Twitter, but I think you can safely ignore it!

Giles, Giles, Giles (Greg). What can I say? You've been superb throughout without ever getting big-headed. You had a really tough final, but made the right decisions under the utmost pressure and it was clear how much it means to you to have your name on the Richard Whiteley Memorial Trophy. It's been mentioned already, but I think it's worth reiterating that your work on the apterous lexicon doesn't go unappreciated, and being able to pull out words like HEIAU along with a definition is testament to your knowledge. MANGONEL was also a particularly nice spot from both of you.

Another series over and exciting times ahead, with some big-name apterites and who knows what else in the offing!

Thanks very much everyone!

*blushes* I only knew what HEIAU meant because it had sat at the top of the ripest pencils list (back when there was only one list) for so long that I had to find out what it was. And some how it stuck (kind of).

Well, I'd better recommence my dictionarying from IM- then...

What do we think about Rachel announcing as a fact that a numbers game is impossible? Susie never announces that there isn't anything better. The information can only come from a computer. Where do they draw the line? If Rachel blanks for some reason, might she be fed a solution? Any rational outsider would just assume they use the computer all the time. Why on earth wouldn't they? Is it naive to think otherwise?

Good to hear from you again, David.

I think that what Rachel does is extremely unwise, for all the reasons you mention. I've often thought about raising the same point myself but I've always bailed out for fear of being perceived as questioning the integrity of the show.

David Williams wrote:What do we think about Rachel announcing as a fact that a numbers game is impossible? Susie never announces that there isn't anything better. The information can only come from a computer. Where do they draw the line? If Rachel blanks for some reason, might she be fed a solution? Any rational outsider would just assume they use the computer all the time. Why on earth wouldn't they? Is it naive to think otherwise?

Yeah, that was a bit odd. She's done it after the advert break before but it doesn't jar quite so much then. It's really odd to say it straight after the 30 seconds, as you say it just makes you suspicious.

(Oh, and congratulations Giles and commiserations to Andy!)

Jon Corby wrote:

David Williams wrote:What do we think about Rachel announcing as a fact that a numbers game is impossible? Susie never announces that there isn't anything better. The information can only come from a computer. Where do they draw the line? If Rachel blanks for some reason, might she be fed a solution? Any rational outsider would just assume they use the computer all the time. Why on earth wouldn't they? Is it naive to think otherwise?

Yeah, that was a bit odd. She's done it after the advert break before but it doesn't jar quite so much then. It's really odd to say it straight after the 30 seconds, as you say it just makes you suspicious.

(Oh, and congratulations Giles and commiserations to Andy!)

I don't watch very often, does she do this often or was that a one-off? They might have thought it was ok just this once as it was so crucial to the outcome of the final?

I think I remember it once before? And it was twice this episode yeah?

She has done it for a year or so I think. One example I remember distinctly was Innis v Adam in the 30BC as I asked her about it afterwards.

The only reason they tell her it's not doable is just to stop her chasing a dead end and wasting time and brainpower. I think they've done this for a while but what is not clear is exactly when this process manifested itself into a direct assertion from her to Nick/the audience/the TV viewers about it not being doable, as I presume they used to consciously keep it to themselves.

Andy Platt wrote:She has done it for a year or so I think. One example I remember distinctly was Innis v Adam in the 30BC as I asked her about it afterwards.

The only reason they tell her it's not doable is just to stop her chasing a dead end and wasting time and brainpower. I think they've done this for a while but what is not clear is exactly when this process manifested itself into a direct assertion from her to Nick/the audience/the TV viewers about it not being doable, as I presume they used to consciously keep it to themselves.

That's about what I would have suspected. It says a lot for the rapport that they have built up with contestants that none of us would doubt them for a second. But I'm sure we've had Damian on here saying "Never used computers. Never will." or words to that effect. Seems perfectly reasonable to save Rachel wasting time and effort, but it's a slippery slope. I don't know if anyone has done the stats recently, but Rachel seems pretty much flawless these days, so it's barely necessary.

I remember immediately after the 6 small round in Ed's final, Rachel told us that Ed's method was the only way of getting within 15 either side.

I wonder what software they use. Would be interesting to know.

A bit late but well done again to both of you for a great game and for setting a consistently high standard throughout the series. Some great spots by Giles there but a bit unlucky for Andy with ODORIZER and that the numbers weren't more difficult/solvable as you would have liked but I suppose that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

ALSO

Adam Gillard wrote:Giles can't lose on the letters rounds because he ultimately decides whether or not a word is in the dictionary.
...
clearly having given a bung to CECIL, means that he is virtually unbeatable.

Scarily accurate prediction

David Williams wrote:What do we think about Rachel announcing as a fact that a numbers game is impossible? Susie never announces that there isn't anything better. The information can only come from a computer. Where do they draw the line? If Rachel blanks for some reason, might she be fed a solution? Any rational outsider would just assume they use the computer all the time. Why on earth wouldn't they? Is it naive to think otherwise?

Couple of comments for clarification.

Rachel has never been given a solution to a numbers game and never will. If she can't get a numbers game, she won't even allow us to tell her the answer hours later, because she takes them home with her and keeps trying them until they have been solved, such is her determination.

The reason she gets told a game is impossible, is so we can move on, otherwise she tries to figure it out during the break, which is a pointless waste of mental effort and time. It's also a confidence thing, which we've done from day one. There's no point having her stand there thinking she's failed or under-performed needlessly. The past references to Countdown never using computers and never will, is in relation to using computers to supply words and numbers solutions to the stage. We use computers on the show for the scoring, the Cecil target, the gallery dictionary, so it's not to be taken literally (although i think David knew that).

I'm sure a lot of people think that it's all done by computer these days, and announcing that there is no solution would seem to confirm their suspicions. So no objection to preserving Rachel's sanity by telling her a round is impossible, but I'd have thought it better to wait till at least the next adverts, and it should never be announced on screen, even in circumstances like the penultimate round of the final when it was so significant. Slippery slope and all that.

Can I have HEJIRA, by the way??

Not sure we're in agreement, David.

When Rachel says "no, i'm 2 away, i'll have another look" at the end of a numbers game, how can they be thinking about computers?

Outsiders and non-followers of the show may be suspicious or cynical, but Countdown fans on the whole? Not at all.

You can have 'hejira' as a variant spelling on the non-capitalised 'hegira'. Not 100% certain, but 99.9%.

Interesting about HEJIRA - anyone got an ODE3 to hand? I'm about ten hours away from mine.

Countdown Team wrote:Not sure we're in agreement, David.

When Rachel says "no, i'm 2 away, i'll have another look" at the end of a numbers game, how can they be thinking about computers?

I don't think that's what David's talking about - it's when Rachel says "the best is 2 away for this one" with certainty. It's reasonable for someone to watch that and think "how is she so sure? Does she get the solution fed to her?" Of course we know she doesn't, but it's easy to imagine that's what someone might think.

I think it would make sense for Rachel to say how she knows it's impossible. It comes across as a bit odd at the moment. People will be wondering how she knows. Has it been checked on a computer? Is she so good she just knows?

Graeme Cole wrote:

Countdown Team wrote:Not sure we're in agreement, David.

When Rachel says "no, i'm 2 away, i'll have another look" at the end of a numbers game, how can they be thinking about computers?

I don't think that's what David's talking about - it's when Rachel says "the best is 2 away for this one" with certainty. It's reasonable for someone to watch that and think "how is she so sure? Does she get the solution fed to her?" Of course we know she doesn't, but it's easy to imagine that's what someone might think.

Yes, that's my point. Indeed, being really purist, if Rachel is routinely told when a numbers game is not possible she will infer from silence that it is possible. This may lead her to a solution she wouldn't otherwise have got. In the same way as when someone declares a word longer than yours, you often see it straight away.

I did mention HEJIRA earlier. It's capitalised, as an alternative spelling of 'Hegira'. But there is a subsidiary uncapitalised meaning for 'hegira', so you could infer that anyone who used 'Hejira' as a spelling would use 'hejira' for that meaning, even though it isn't specified. Like ANODISER.

David Williams wrote: Indeed, being really purist, if Rachel is routinely told when a numbers game is not possible she will infer from silence that it is possible. This may lead her to a solution she wouldn't otherwise have got. In the same way as when someone declares a word longer than yours, you often see it straight away.

I see what you mean. We don't speak to Rachel at all during the 30-second clock during numbers, apart from when it's obviously easy, and you sometimes see her smiling while looking at the monitor. That's when we give her verbal banter and she reacts. But as a strict rule, there is nothing to infer from silence because it's always silent.