Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Discuss anything that happened in recent games. This is the place to post any words you got that beat Dictionary Corner, or numbers games that evaded Rachel.

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Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by James Robinson » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:29 pm

So, after Tricia completed her octorun on Thursday, some people might've probably prepared for Friday's preliminary to echo back to the dark days of the start of this series, just a month ago.

But, no, Mark Davies excited us with a polished display, and hopefully we'll see more of him starting with his 2nd show today. :)

Gethin Jones continues in DC up until Thursday, before another kids' TV presenter, Angellica Bell, enters the fray on Friday.

Andy will recap with you guys later. ;) :) :D
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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Jordan F » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:51 pm

I believe our own Julia Hayward will be the challenger today, if I read her post correctly.

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Bradley Cates » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:49 pm

HABITUE in R1
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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Tony Atkins » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:53 pm

Bradley Cates wrote:HABITUE in R1
I got that but missed the related 7 and 8 beaters in the next round (from GLYEOADPH)
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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Tony Atkins » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:14 pm

Didn't get the 3 7s in the OILCAN+NUN round either.

Alt 3rd numbers ((3x75)-7)x3-(50/10)
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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Tony Atkins » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:26 pm

OLEASTER one of two 8s in R13.
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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Steven M. McCann » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:31 pm

The conundrum buzzer seemed to be pressed almost simultaneously as the word appeared, winging it?

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Mark Kudlowski » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:33 pm

Tony Atkins wrote:OLEASTER one of two 8s in R13.
Well, these beat my two DC equalisers for 7: WASTREL and SWEATER

Might some of the equalisers have been edited out ?
Since I'd been going to recordings, I've noticed a few cuts in the final transmissions
to bring down the broadcast time.

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Bradley Cates » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:38 pm

Tony Atkins wrote:Didn't get the 3 7s in the OILCAN+NUN round either.
I had CANNOLI.
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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:11 pm

I think the champion seems at a similar level to Tricia Pay. It will be interesting to see how he progresses.

Also, REALEST was offered today and accepted on the basis that REAL is a one-syllable adjective. (It's borderline really - I wouldn't pronounce it with one syllable but might pronounce it with one syllable when it's part of REALEST if that makes sense - REE-UL v REE-LEST.) But anyway, it does find the entry for REAL if you type REALEST into the ODO, although this doesn't work with some other one-syllable adjectives. But the point is Susie explicitly mentioned the rule rather than the fact that the ODO finds it, so does that mean we're still allowing PISSEDER etc? And because FABBER isn't specified, are we still going for FABER?

The Countdown Team said previously (somewhere) that the rules are still the same, so it seems that nothing changes really. Does that mean we still get subjective arbitrary judgements on pluralised mass nouns? I'd rather a more objective dictionary-based approach personally, which I thought was one reason for going to the computer version. I can't remember off the top of my head what problems that might throw up though. I might check through the discussions.

Edit - One problem already mentioned with going by the dictionary is that searching for FLORUITED finds nothing, but it's used in an example sentence under FLORUIT! So is it a word or not? Weirdly, searching for FABER finds the entry for SPADEFISH (some sort of Latin species name), although unlike FLORUITED you don't have to click on "more example sentences" to unearth it, so maybe the search thing is based on that.

Edit - Post saying the rules are the same.
Last edited by Gavin Chipper on Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Mark Murray » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:21 pm

Spotted tolewares ..round 13..dont know that I would have risked the S if I was playing....

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by James Robinson » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:07 pm

Mark Murray wrote:Spotted tolewares ..round 13..dont know that I would have risked the S if I was playing....
Interesting the ODO doesn't allow TOLEWARES, unless I've read it wrong........ :P
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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Matthew Brockwell » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:29 pm

TOLEWARE isn't listed as a mass noun (although the usages seem to suggest it may be one), so I guess TOLEWARES is valid.

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:45 pm

Matthew Brockwell wrote:TOLEWARE isn't listed as a mass noun (although the usages seem to suggest it may be one), so I guess TOLEWARES is valid.
Especially going by the rules - it's been said that the rules haven't changed with the introduction of the ODO so the computer doesn't get the final say.

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Clive Brooker » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:But the point is Susie explicitly mentioned the (one-syllable adjective) rule rather than the fact that the ODO finds it, so does that mean we're still allowing PISSEDER etc?
I thought this was quite particularly disappointing. Remarkably, the only Countdown dictionary which has ever seemed to support this rule was the COD7. The eighth and ninth editions included a much more helpful paragraph on this subject:
Words of one syllable adding -er or -est, those ending in silent e dropping the e (e.g. braver, bravest) are regarded as regular. Most one-syllable words have these forms, but participial adjectives (e.g. pleased) do not.
I don't think this was intended to imply that any non-participial one-syllable adjective can automatically take -er and -est forms, but perhaps it was too easily interpreted as doing so. The equivalent section in the COD10, NODE, etc. fudges the issue completely. What they say is possibly closer to reality but not so immediately applicable to a word game.

All this seems to have bypassed Countdown, and now that we have the ODO it seems they still want to persist with rules derived from the COD7. I think they'd do better to throw away the outdated rules and create new ones that work properly with the ODO. Not dissimilar to the decision I face with the plumbing in my bathroom.

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:26 pm

Clive Brooker wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:But the point is Susie explicitly mentioned the (one-syllable adjective) rule rather than the fact that the ODO finds it, so does that mean we're still allowing PISSEDER etc?
I thought this was quite particularly disappointing. Remarkably, the only Countdown dictionary which has ever seemed to support this rule was the COD7. The eighth and ninth editions included a much more helpful paragraph on this subject:
Words of one syllable adding -er or -est, those ending in silent e dropping the e (e.g. braver, bravest) are regarded as regular. Most one-syllable words have these forms, but participial adjectives (e.g. pleased) do not.
I don't think this was intended to imply that any non-participial one-syllable adjective can automatically take -er and -est forms, but perhaps it was too easily interpreted as doing so. The equivalent section in the COD10, NODE, etc. fudges the issue completely. What they say is possibly closer to reality but not so immediately applicable to a word game.
Of course, we're still waiting for the COD7 section! So are you saying that the COD7 section is more explicit and less fudged than the COD10 and NODE? Interestingly no dictionary seems to have mentioned the doubling of the final consonant (FABER/FABBER), but I suspect that it might only be in cases where they don't consider them to take -ER and -EST, doubling or not - after all it's only "most" words that do. FATTER and FATTEST are explicitly mentioned, for example.
All this seems to have bypassed Countdown, and now that we have the ODO it seems they still want to persist with rules derived from the COD7. I think they'd do better to throw away the outdated rules and create new ones that work properly with the ODO. Not dissimilar to the decision I face with the plumbing in my bathroom.
I definitely agree with this. I imagine that was probably the intention from the Oxford dictionary people's side at least.

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Re: Spoilers For Monday August 11th 2014

Post by Clive Brooker » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:56 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:[Of course, we're still waiting for the COD7 section! So are you saying that the COD7 section is more explicit and less fudged than the COD10 and NODE?
I know, I haven't forgotten. Not everyone in my household regards things like this as my highest priority.

The COD7 section (it hadn't actually changed since the COD3 at least) made a valiant attempt to define as many regular forms as possible, but in doing so created anomalies (LOWBROWER, for example). Also, probably unintentionally, it gave a clear signal that monosyllabic adjectives can always take -ER and -EST (by my reading of it anyway). Later editions sought to give a different impression, but still sort of implying that most of the time -ER and -EST forms are likely to be OK. I think any abbreviated dictionary has to do a some fudging to give an accurate overall impression without overburdening itself with detail.

Looking at last night's post, I was a bit unfair in suggesting that all these changes have passed Countdown by. It does seem, however, that with all dictionary revisions they've consciously retained rules derived from earlier versions, and this is especially apparent with the change to the ODO.

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