Ask Graeme?

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George Pryn
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by George Pryn » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:44 pm

Graeme Cole wrote: Old 15 round format

The person at the top of this table isn't any of the usual names that might spring to mind. Mike Pullin did well on the numbers with 216/237, but his eight opponents only managed 47 numbers points between them, giving him a numbers margin of 169.

Top 10:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Mike Pullin           216    47   169 
Mark Deeks            228    84   144 
Jon O'Neill           224    84   140 
Jack Worsley          237   100   137 
Eoin Monaghan         229    92   137 
Junaid Mubeen         218    87   131 
Michael Bowden        208    77   131 
Edward McCullagh      234   114   120 
John Hunt             213    97   116 
Ned Pendleton         188    74   114 
New 15 round format (up to the end of series 70)

All 12:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Jonathan Liew         256    81   175 
Jen Steadman          295   150   145 
Dylan Taylor          311   180   131 
Giles Hutchings       286   171   115 
Andy Naylor           249   141   108 
Joe McGonigle         239   131   108 
Glen Webb             292   187   105 
Mark Murray           292   194    98  
Bradley Cates         279   195    84  
Eileen Taylor         220   148    72  
Samir Pilica          215   162    53  
Alex Fish             264   228    36
If we're counting moral octochampdom, Callum Todd scored 257 and his opponents got 127, so he had a margin of 130.

Andy Platt fits into neither format (or both, if you prefer) - he scored 239 and his opponents got 94, making his margin 145.

9 round format

Top 10 plus ties:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Graham Nash           141   54    87  
John Hadfield         125   40    85  
James Martin          145   77    68  
David Williams        142   77    65  
Melvin Hetherington   144   80    64  
Peter Hutchings       108   44    64  
Satbir Gupta          124   61    63  
Dag Griffiths         102   40    62  
Allan Saldanha        138   77    61  
Scott Mearns          129   69    60
David Trace            87   27    60  
Wow thanks Graeme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:08 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:If this hasn't already been asked, which 9-letter combination (so any order) has come out the most? Might as well have a top 10 or 20 with the maxes alongside!
The most common selection is some permutation of RELATIONS, which has appeared 18 times. Here are some other common selections:

18 occurrences: RELATIONS/ORIENTALS/TENSORIAL
17 occurrences: DERATIONS/ORDINATES/NOTARISED
16 occurrences: DELATIONS
14 occurrences: IDOLATERS/STEROIDAL
13 occurrences: EPILATORS
12 occurrences: PATRONISE/ISOPTERAN, MORALISE+T (the most common selection with no nine available)
11 occurrences: GRADIENTS, ORGANISE+T
10 occurrences: TRANSOMED, BARITONES/OBTAINERS, TAILORED+G, TENDRILS+O
9 occurrences: HORTENSIA/SENHORITA, DICENTRAS, TERMINALS/TRAMLINES, REACTIONS/CREATIONS/ACTIONERS/NARCOTISE, AMORTISED/MEDIATORS, ASTEROID+C, LEOTARDS+N, MINARETS+O
8 occurrences: SCLEROTIA/SECTORIAL, CENSORIAL/LONICERAS, ANTIPODES, TRIANGLES/INTEGRALS/GNARLIEST, TERMINAL+O, MINARETS+D, RATIONED+G, ASTEROID+P, LORICATE+D

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:53 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:If this hasn't already been asked, which 9-letter combination (so any order) has come out the most? Might as well have a top 10 or 20 with the maxes alongside!
The most common selection is some permutation of RELATIONS, which has appeared 18 times. Here are some other common selections:

18 occurrences: RELATIONS/ORIENTALS/TENSORIAL
17 occurrences: DERATIONS/ORDINATES/NOTARISED
16 occurrences: DELATIONS
14 occurrences: IDOLATERS/STEROIDAL
13 occurrences: EPILATORS
12 occurrences: PATRONISE/ISOPTERAN, MORALISE+T (the most common selection with no nine available)
11 occurrences: GRADIENTS, ORGANISE+T
10 occurrences: TRANSOMED, BARITONES/OBTAINERS, TAILORED+G, TENDRILS+O
9 occurrences: HORTENSIA/SENHORITA, DICENTRAS, TERMINALS/TRAMLINES, REACTIONS/CREATIONS/ACTIONERS/NARCOTISE, AMORTISED/MEDIATORS, ASTEROID+C, LEOTARDS+N, MINARETS+O
8 occurrences: SCLEROTIA/SECTORIAL, CENSORIAL/LONICERAS, ANTIPODES, TRIANGLES/INTEGRALS/GNARLIEST, TERMINAL+O, MINARETS+D, RATIONED+G, ASTEROID+P, LORICATE+D
Excellent work!

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Ben Wilson » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:02 pm

Dear Graeme,

How many performances over the history of the show would have been good enough to beat Apterous Rex? Or to put it the long way, how many performances would have been within ten points of the available max going into the conundrum (counting non-maxed rounds as zero scores) which they then subsequently get in under a second? Taking Rex to a sudden death conundrum also counts as a win in my eyes.

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:44 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:Dear Graeme,

How many performances over the history of the show would have been good enough to beat Apterous Rex? Or to put it the long way, how many performances would have been within ten points of the available max going into the conundrum (counting non-maxed rounds as zero scores) which they then subsequently get in under a second? Taking Rex to a sudden death conundrum also counts as a win in my eyes.
Great question.

There are seven such performances. I've only counted numbers rounds as maxed when the player got the closest possible to the target.

Craig Beevers 113 - 111 Apterous Rex
Jack Hurst 126 - 124 Apterous Rex
Jack Hurst 108 - 104 Apterous Rex
Conor Travers 112 - 109 Apterous Rex
Conor Travers 119 - 109 Apterous Rex
Conor Travers 139 - 139 Apterous Rex
Giles Hutchings 113 - 111 Apterous Rex

If you count a conundrum buzz time of exactly one second as a Rex-beater, then you can also count Conor's game against Jono: Conor Travers 120 - 110 Apterous Rex.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Laverty » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:27 am

Following on from Dan McColm's return yesterday, is he the first returning contestant to have had both of his runs on the show with in the Rachel Riley era (excluding contestants invited back due to mistakes)
Definitely not Jamie McNeill or Schrodinger's Cat....

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:52 pm

James Laverty wrote:Following on from Dan McColm's return yesterday, is he the first returning contestant to have had both of his runs on the show with in the Rachel Riley era (excluding contestants invited back due to mistakes)
Yes.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jack Worsley » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:57 pm

Are there any contestants who have played games in all of the show's three main formats (ie. 9-rounder and both old and new 15-rounders)? I'm going to guess that the answer is no.

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:39 pm

Jack Worsley wrote:Are there any contestants who have played games in all of the show's three main formats (ie. 9-rounder and both old and new 15-rounders)? I'm going to guess that the answer is no.
You guessed right, nobody has.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Dan McColm » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:55 am

What is the highest number of consecutive rounds a contestant has scored in?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by JackHurst » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:25 pm

Might have been asked b4. Only counting heat games, and not games with two new challengers, what is the avg score of champ vs avg score of challenger?

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:56 pm

Dan McColm wrote:What is the highest number of consecutive rounds a contestant has scored in?
Up to the end of series 70, the record was 84 by David O'Donnell. Since this post, Jen Steadman equalled David's record in round 14 of this game.

Of course, if anyone happens to have done better in series 71 then I wouldn't know anything about it. :D :lol: :twisted:

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:14 pm

JackHurst wrote:Might have been asked b4. Only counting heat games, and not games with two new challengers, what is the avg score of champ vs avg score of challenger?
Average scores are correct to two decimal places. The "champion" is taken as the player who isn't on the first game of their run, rather than the player in the camera-left chair, because in the past these weren't always the same thing.

9 rounder: 48.84 for the champion, 41.08 for the challenger.
Old 15 rounder: 85.94 for the champion, 67.13 for the challenger.
New 15 rounder: 91.28 for the champion, 63.66 for the challenger.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by George Pryn » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:00 pm

Have any octoruns contained 0 nines? If so, whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo WHERE

oh and also if it's more common than I THINK, have any of these 0-niners been first seed in a series?

if it's LESS common than I thought and actually 0 OCTOCHAMPS have had 0 NINES, then how many have had only one available?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Lisa Hermann » Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:04 pm

How many other contestants apart from myself have recorded regular games (not specials) in both the 1900s and 2000s? (I recorded the last series 42 game in 1999 and the first three in 2000.)

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Kirk Bevins » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:40 am

Graeme Cole wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:Dear Graeme,

How many performances over the history of the show would have been good enough to beat Apterous Rex? Or to put it the long way, how many performances would have been within ten points of the available max going into the conundrum (counting non-maxed rounds as zero scores) which they then subsequently get in under a second? Taking Rex to a sudden death conundrum also counts as a win in my eyes.
Great question.

There are seven such performances. I've only counted numbers rounds as maxed when the player got the closest possible to the target.

Craig Beevers 113 - 111 Apterous Rex
Jack Hurst 126 - 124 Apterous Rex
Jack Hurst 108 - 104 Apterous Rex
Conor Travers 112 - 109 Apterous Rex
Conor Travers 119 - 109 Apterous Rex
Conor Travers 139 - 139 Apterous Rex
Giles Hutchings 113 - 111 Apterous Rex

If you count a conundrum buzz time of exactly one second as a Rex-beater, then you can also count Conor's game against Jono: Conor Travers 120 - 110 Apterous Rex.
Surely the max games should be in this list?

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:09 am

Kirk Bevins wrote:Surely the max games should be in this list?
Only those where the player got the conundrum in under a second. Otherwise Rex would have won on the conundrum.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Zarte Siempre » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:10 am

I presume the solve time in all of those were more than 0.75s and so would've lost on a double max.
Possibly the first contestant to accelerate with a mic clipped...

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:23 pm

George Pryn wrote:Have any octoruns contained 0 nines? If so, whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo WHERE

oh and also if it's more common than I THINK, have any of these 0-niners been first seed in a series?

if it's LESS common than I thought and actually 0 OCTOCHAMPS have had 0 NINES, then how many have had only one available?
In the 9-round era, at least four contestants' octoruns had no nines available. They were Darryl Francis, Mark Nyman, Lindsay Denyer and James Sinclair. Sharon Bridge had no nines in her first seven games, but we don't have details for her eighth game. Mark Nyman and Lindsay Denyer were both #1 seed in their series. Darryl Francis was #2 seed, because Helen Grayson scored one more point than him, but would have been #1 seed under today's rules.

Nobody in the 15-round era has completed an octorun with no nines being available.

Up to the end of series 70, Richard Heald was the only octochamp whose run had only one nine letter word available. It was OUTRANGES, which he spotted.

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:37 pm

Lisa Hermann wrote:How many other contestants apart from myself have recorded regular games (not specials) in both the 1900s and 2000s? (I recorded the last series 42 game in 1999 and the first three in 2000.)
I'm taking "regular games" to mean heat games only, so as well as specials, this would exclude CoCs, 30th Birthday Championship and anything similar. Also, the wiki, and therefore the database, doesn't know when games were recorded, only when they were shown. So we'll have to use the broadcast dates.

31 contestants have appeared in heat games in 19xx and 20xx. In order of first appearance, they are June Madell, Brenda Widger, Tony Durrant, Steve Grimble, Monica Sutcliffe, John Gardner, Garry Preston, Glyn Linder, Chris Bergman, Eileen Taylor, Glen Webb, Eric Emslie, Simon Gillam, Peter Etherington, Christopher Jones, Marcus Hares, Raymond Tate, Brian Boonham, Harold Blythe, Paul James, Stuart McQuitty, Margaret Read, Mike Moran, Junaid Mubeen, Ross Mackenzie, Hamish Williamson, Bobby Johnson, Ola Odutola, Mark Murray, John Blaker and Helen Wrigglesworth.

Edit: It's at least 32. Hercule Poirot has just pointed out to me that this list omits Sarah Taylor (nee Hadaway), and that's because the database thought Sarah Taylor and Sarah Hadaway were two different people. The scripts that scrape the wiki pages for the database are supposed to sort out this kind of thing by looking at the contestant name hyperlinks on the series recap pages and seeing which page they point to - a page title on the wiki always has a unique name and all a player's different names should point to the same place - but it didn't work as expected on this occasion, probably because her page title changed after I scraped series 5 two years ago but before I scraped series 69 last year.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Chris Marshall » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:54 pm

Have any of those 32 played in 3 decades?

With the recent introduction of thx and srsly it got me wondering, how many times a word with no vowel (like lynx or rhythm) have been declared?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:04 pm

Not seen today's game yet then Graeme?

(I know this isn't a spoilers thread but I don't think I'm ruining things too much with that).

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:09 pm

Chris Marshall wrote:Have any of those 32 played in 3 decades?
Not in heat games, no.

If you count all episode types - finals, championships, specials, Masters, everything - and say that they don't have to be in the above 32, six people have appeared in three different decades. They are Darryl Francis, Christine Hunt, Hilary Hopper, Mike Whiteoak, Nita Marr and Junaid Mubeen.
Chris Marshall wrote:With the recent introduction of thx and srsly it got me wondering, how many times a word with no vowel (like lynx or rhythm) have been declared?
Twice: TRYST and LYNCH.

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:31 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:Not seen today's game yet then Graeme?

(I know this isn't a spoilers thread but I don't think I'm ruining things too much with that).
Well spotted.

The database only has games up to the end of series 70. This is because scraping games from the wiki, despite being a semi-automated process, is a moderate pain in the backside because of various things that tend to go wrong.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:34 pm

We'll let you off missing Elisabeth Jardine too then.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:56 pm

What's the most numbers games anyone's played scoring 0 in all of them?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by George Pryn » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:33 am

Graeme Cole wrote:
George Pryn wrote: Who has the best winning margin of numbers rounds over their octochamp heat games?
Old 15 round format

The person at the top of this table isn't any of the usual names that might spring to mind. Mike Pullin did well on the numbers with 216/237, but his eight opponents only managed 47 numbers points between them, giving him a numbers margin of 169.

Top 10:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Mike Pullin           216    47   169 
Mark Deeks            228    84   144 
Jon O'Neill           224    84   140 
Jack Worsley          237   100   137 
Eoin Monaghan         229    92   137 
Junaid Mubeen         218    87   131 
Michael Bowden        208    77   131 
Edward McCullagh      234   114   120 
John Hunt             213    97   116 
Ned Pendleton         188    74   114 
New 15 round format (up to the end of series 70)

All 12:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Jonathan Liew         256    81   175 
Jen Steadman          295   150   145 
Dylan Taylor          311   180   131 
Giles Hutchings       286   171   115 
Andy Naylor           249   141   108 
Joe McGonigle         239   131   108 
Glen Webb             292   187   105 
Mark Murray           292   194    98  
Bradley Cates         279   195    84  
Eileen Taylor         220   148    72  
Samir Pilica          215   162    53  
Alex Fish             264   228    36
If we're counting moral octochampdom, Callum Todd scored 257 and his opponents got 127, so he had a margin of 130.

Andy Platt fits into neither format (or both, if you prefer) - he scored 239 and his opponents got 94, making his margin 145.

9 round format

Top 10 plus ties:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Graham Nash           141   54    87  
John Hadfield         125   40    85  
James Martin          145   77    68  
David Williams        142   77    65  
Melvin Hetherington   144   80    64  
Peter Hutchings       108   44    64  
Satbir Gupta          124   61    63  
Dag Griffiths         102   40    62  
Allan Saldanha        138   77    61  
Scott Mearns          129   69    60
David Trace            87   27    60  
COOL I GOT THE SAME AS DYLAN :mrgreen:

THIS MEANS I AM JUST AS GOOD AS HIM

RIGHT?
...RIGHT?
:D :) :o :) :D

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:02 am

The score of Dylan's opponents really surprises me. I thought he usually went for 6 small, so would have expected them to struggle much more than they seem to have done.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:20 am

Gavin Chipper wrote:What's the most numbers games anyone's played scoring 0 in all of them?
I'm taking this as "of all contestants who never scored on a numbers round, who played the most numbers rounds".

Bev Jones and Jillian Tidman with six each.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Edward Byrne » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:28 pm

I am wondering if you could give me a list of all the contestants that have won at least one heat game and then later returned for another chance. I know there is Bradley Cates and Marcus Hares. It seems mostly that people return after losing there first game, I can't find many returning winners.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:54 pm

Edward Byrne wrote:I am wondering if you could give me a list of all the contestants that have won at least one heat game and then later returned for another chance. I know there is Bradley Cates and Marcus Hares. It seems mostly that people return after losing there first game, I can't find many returning winners.
Returners who won at least one game in their original run, in order of their first appearance:

June Madell
Mark Cooper - won the last prelim of series 18 but didn't return until half way through series 19, so not sure if it was really two separate runs
Duncan Dale-Emberton - same sort of strangeness here
Glen Webb - only player to have made the finals of more than one series
Peter Etherington
Christopher Jones
Chris Williams
Marcus Hares
Stuart McQuitty
Bobby Johnson
Helen Wrigglesworth - not really two separate runs, as she lost by having the word ROADSIDE disallowed because it had been taken out of the COD10. Not only did they invite Helen back to continue her run, but they decided the COD10 wasn't fit for purpose and stopped using it.
Bruce Lambert
Priscilla Munday
Sue Babb
Bradley Cates
Martin May - bailed out part way through his run for unknown reasons then returned to continue it
Carl Dundas - lost in controversial circumstances so was allowed to continue his run the following series

This is based on games up to the end of series 70. In series 71 there's at least Elisabeth Jardine and possibly others.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:22 pm

Also Helen Grayson.
Graeme Cole wrote:This is because scraping [...] is a moderate pain in the backside because of various things that tend to go wrong.
Time to change your brand of toilet paper.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:49 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:Also Helen Grayson.
Yes. The query didn't pick up her series 1 games because the scores are unknown so they weren't counted as wins.
Gavin Chipper wrote:
Graeme Cole wrote:This is because scraping [...] is a moderate pain in the backside because of various things that tend to go wrong.
Time to change your brand of toilet paper.
Pedantic correction to historical Countdown trivia, and bum joke, in the same post. Possibly beats this.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jon Stitcher » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:36 am

Hi Graeme....

Most crucial conundrums faced by

A series champ
A series finalist
An Octochamp
any contestant

In both 9 and 15 round formats

Love your work.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:54 am

Graeme,

You have previously given us a list of maxes /120 scored by all the 15 round octochamps.

Please could you do likewise for the players who made it to 7 wins, but lost their 8th game?

Thanks.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Charlie Reams » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:34 pm

Slightly niche but I'm on the hunt for games which may be "forgotten classics". Could you tell us the game with the highest joint score in which neither contestant made the finals? (And, maybe better, highest joint maxes?)

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:04 am

If it isn't Abdi v Mark Hartnett, I'll eat my breakfast.

If it is, what's the next highest?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:19 am

Fred Mumford wrote:If it isn't Abdi v Mark Hartnett, I'll eat my breakfast.

If it is, what's the next highest?
There's an obvious one from this series too but that won't come up. Maybe if we wait until lunch.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by sean d » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:52 pm

How many times have 3 or 4 different numbers combinations (ie 1L 2L 3L 4L 6S) been selected in the one game?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jon Stitcher » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:36 pm

One of Zarte's opponents was Ian Talbot, an anagram of the word BATTALION

Have any other players had named that are anagrams of 9 letter words?

Have any players surnames been anagrams of valid 9 letter words? (Not counting people who's surnames are already valid 9 letter words like WHITEHEAD - although that could be a separate question)

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Robinson » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:56 pm

Jon Stitcher wrote:Have any players surnames been anagrams of valid 9 letter words?
I was in the audience during a episode in Series 61, and the contestant was Tony Leverton, and the conudnrum was ULEVERTON, so pretty close. :P
WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE!!!
UP THE MIGHTY TERRIERS!!! ;) :) :D :mrgreen: 8-)

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:05 pm

Jon Stitcher wrote:Hi Graeme....

Most crucial conundrums faced by

A series champ
A series finalist
An Octochamp
any contestant

In both 9 and 15 round formats

Love your work.
For series winners and series finalists, I'm only counting the player's prelims and finals games, not any subsequent CoCs or similar. "Series finalist" means someone who reached the finals stages of the series, so not necessarily winner or runner up. If you played in a quarter-final, you're a series finalist. For octochamps, I'm only counting their heat games in the run in which they octoed. For "any contestant" I'm counting all games.

I'm taking "crucial conundrums" to mean the number of conundrums a player faced when the game wasn't already decided. Before you all say "but that's obvious", I'll point out that it isn't quite the same as another common definition, "games that weren't decided before the conundrum", because of tiebreaks. Yes, this means someone can have more than one crucial conundrum in a game. However, I'm not counting the conundrum in round 7 of 14-round finals because that's silly.

15 rounds (either format):

Series winners: Callum Todd (5)
Series finalists: Carl Williams (6)
Octorun: Chris McHenry (5)
Any contestant: Mark Tournoff, Anita Freeland, Neil Zussman and Carl Williams (6)

9 rounds:

Series winners: Ray McPhie (8)
Series finalists: Kenneth Michie, Ray McPhie, John Hastings and David Hoskisson (8)
Octorun: Lew Schwarz (7 out of 10, including two drawn games)
Any contestant: John Clarke (11, including one game with two tiebreaks in it)

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:22 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:Graeme,

You have previously given us a list of maxes /120 scored by all the 15 round octochamps.

Please could you do likewise for the players who made it to 7 wins, but lost their 8th game?

Thanks.
As always with "maxes", the results are only as accurate as the dictionary we have, which for dictionaries earlier than ODE2r isn't as accurate as we might like.

Tiebreaks are not counted.

15 rounders top 10:

Code: Select all

David Nickeas         66
Callum Todd           62
Anita Freeland        59
Steve Baines          58
David Franks          54
Niall Young           54
Grant Waters          53
Peter Zyss            51
Peter Godwin          51
John Jeffrey          50
Joy Longworth         50
9 rounders top 10:

Code: Select all

Helen Grayson         44*
Chris Toyne           42
Jenny Haldane         38
Rodney Marrison       36
Vic Foster            35
Kate Surtees          34
Tim Robinson          34
Stuart Wood           33
Anne Lyng             31
Nita Marr             30
Andrew Perry          30
* technically Helen Grayson didn't "lose her eighth game" because she didn't play one, but I think it's still notable that she got more maxes in 63 rounds than any other 9-round heptochamp got in 72.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:26 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:If it isn't Abdi v Mark Hartnett, I'll eat my breakfast.

If it is, what's the next highest?
I haven't checked yet, but if the next highest isn't Mark Murray v Ciaran McCarthy, I'll eat my dinner.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:27 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:
Fred Mumford wrote:If it isn't Abdi v Mark Hartnett, I'll eat my breakfast.

If it is, what's the next highest?
I haven't checked yet, but if the next highest isn't Mark Murray v Ciaran McCarthy, I'll eat my dinner.
I'm already eating my dinner. They're not both non-finalists. I must have been thinking of Mark Hartnett, who had two double-century games but didn't make the finals.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:58 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:Slightly niche but I'm on the hunt for games which may be "forgotten classics". Could you tell us the game with the highest joint score in which neither contestant made the finals? (And, maybe better, highest joint maxes?)
Top 20 by joint score in 15 rounders:

Code: Select all

EP     TX DATE                              SCORE                          JOINT
5791   2013-10-15    Abdirizak Hirsi       107  119  Mark Hartnett         226   (Fred's breakfast survives)
3869   2005-02-11    Frank Mulvey          133  86   Kevin Warner          219
S11    2003-09-11    Melanie Beaumont      83   126  Linda Dawe            209
4560   2008-03-19    Andrew Swale          96   106  Tony Durrant          202
3536   2003-08-12    Colin Askew           79   121  Nick Smith            200
3705   2004-05-17    Chris White           93   104  Laura Taylor          197
4069   2006-03-30    Tuck Broadbent        95   101  Dan Webster           196
4272   2007-01-15    Ian Volante           102  93   George Rhodes         195
5739   2013-07-24    Rory Coleman          76   118  Zarte Siempre         194
3916   2005-04-27    David Ryan            91   102  Kieran Coppinger      193
3325   2002-09-23    Robert Lee            91   101  Dez Hussey            192
5296   2011-06-29    Andrew Halliburton    100  92   Barry Evans           192
3445   2003-03-24    Beth Sutton           103  88   Keith Williams        191
4132   2006-06-23    Graham Dugdale        90   101  Alan O'Donnell        191
4186   2006-09-07    Sheri Evans           93   98   Sarah Duncan          191
5868   2014-02-13    Andrew Farr           89   102  Adrian Day            191
4967   2010-01-28    James Rawson          100  90   Toni Balestra         190
5486   2012-05-17    Stuart Wright         111  79   Jamie Ainge           190
3630   2004-01-26    Eric Wright           123  66   Jonathan De Souza     189
4075   2006-04-06    Heather Culpin        106  83   Steven Kidner         189
Top 20 plus ties by joint score in 9 rounders:

Code: Select all

EP     TX DATE                              SCORE                          JOINT
905    1989-08-30    Clive Everill         70   60   Chris Magill          130
2720   2000-02-29    Andy Brown            70   60   Barry Scaum           130
2563   1999-07-12    Kay Powick            71   53   Derek Harrison        124
1920   1997-01-15    Jeff Youell           53   70   Steve Erskine         123
900    1989-08-23    Ann Rutter            63   59   Mark Pont             122
2365   1998-10-07    Sally Hutchings       53   68   Joe Bridal            121
2948   2001-02-14    Nicola Smith          63   58   Daryl Brooks          121
2154   1997-12-09    Christine Kavanagh    58   62   Michael Joy           120
2427   1999-01-01    Emma Brown            55   65   Ted Smith             120
2513   1999-05-03    Keith Loveys          56   64   Colin Sinnett         120
2782   2000-05-30    Jacqueline Carter     62   57   Eddy Ignace           119
2918   2001-01-03    Dom Glennon           57   62   Richard Leaper        119
1278   1992-07-20    Felicity Gelder       54   64   Terry Doughty         118
1076   1991-01-10    Robert Houston        64   53   Ewen Alexander        117
2959   2001-03-01    Ralph Lubkowski       69   48   Mansoor Undre         117
2609   1999-09-28    Billy Davidson        68   48   Jacqui Darby          116
647    1987-10-07    Jim Findlay           66   49   Ray Clements          115
1171   1991-08-22    Thelma Bell           55   60   Howard Spencer        115
1793   1996-07-15    Martin Wright         54   61   Kim Poole             115
1829   1996-09-03    Jean Frost            60   55   George Gruner         115
2304   1998-07-14    Simon Cobb            65   50   Vasudeo Joshi         115
2405   1998-12-02    Phil Hunt             60   55   Claire O'Neil         115
3011   2001-05-14    Peter Wild            53   62   Debbie Allen          115
Top 20 plus ties by joint maxes in 15 rounders:

Code: Select all

EP     TX DATE                              SCORE                           MAXES    JOINT
5293   2011-06-24    Matt Croy             90   91   Andrew Halliburton    12   12   24 
3445   2003-03-24    Beth Sutton           103  88   Keith Williams        12   9    21 
4235   2006-11-15    Phil Matthams         96   86   Christine Smith       11   10   21 
4560   2008-03-19    Andrew Swale          96   106  Tony Durrant          10   11   21 
3997   2005-12-21    Sue Alexander         84   98   Nick Rafferty         9    11   20 
4069   2006-03-30    Tuck Broadbent        95   101  Dan Webster           9    11   20 
3426   2003-02-25    John Clarke           96   77   David Poyser          10   9    19     (not the same John Clarke I mentioned in the post above, who won series 11)
S11    2003-09-11    Melanie Beaumont      83   126  Linda Dawe            7    12   19 
3915   2005-04-26    Jenny Scudamore       83   86   David Ryan            9    10   19 
3919   2005-05-03    Kieran Coppinger      72   82   Sally Bassinder       9    10   19 
3921   2005-05-05    Sally Bassinder       84   90   Bob Beckett           9    10   19 
3923   2005-05-09    Michael Edwards       79   71   Jim Anderson          10   9    19 
5388   2011-12-02    Phyllis Styles        109  71   Rachel Shirley        11   8    19 
5791   2013-10-15    Abdirizak Hirsi       107  119  Mark Hartnett         9    10   19 
5816   2013-11-19    Simon Whiteley        81   87   Philip Creed          8    11   19 
3212   2002-03-19    Tony Harding          87   83   Paul Burlinson        10   8    18 
3827   2004-11-30    Judith Armstrong      85   82   Andrew Byrne          9    9    18 
3917   2005-04-28    Kieran Coppinger      101  85   Ian Laming            10   8    18 
3986   2005-12-06    Rosemary Ilsley       87   98   Clive Johnson         9    9    18 
4575   2008-04-09    Matthew Coates        87   97   David Sandbach        9    9    18 
4870   2009-08-25    Paul Varlaam          67   105  Ed Rossiter           7    11   18 
4987   2010-02-25    Clarke Carlisle       101  78   Alexander Johnston    10   8    18 
5427   2012-02-16    Chris Butler          93   73   Matthew Conway        10   8    18
Top 20 plus ties (so top 38) by joint maxes in 9 rounders:

Code: Select all

EP     TX DATE                              SCORE                           MAXES    JOINT
1076   1991-01-10    Robert Houston        64   53   Ewen Alexander        7    6    13 
1421   1993-08-12    Eileen Slack          43   50   Alec Webb             6    7    13 
2529   1999-05-25    Susan Shilton         63   41   Joan Trinder          8    5    13 
2720   2000-02-29    Andy Brown            70   60   Barry Scaum           7    6    13 
2839   2000-09-14    David Healey          40   67   Kris Jones            5    8    13 
1335   1993-01-13    'A.J.' Marriot        45   55   Barbi Birdseye        5    7    12 
1463   1994-01-10    Jim Crawford          37   62   John Carter           5    7    12 
1748   1996-02-12    Seamus McAteer        41   62   Steve Gruzd           5    7    12 
1819   1996-08-20    Mike Llewellin        58   54   June Ruskin           6    6    12 
1912   1997-01-03    Paul Wells            48   62   Mike Kindred          5    7    12 
2513   1999-05-03    Keith Loveys          56   64   Colin Sinnett         6    6    12 
2623   1999-10-18    Alix Anderson         52   59   Dee Voce              6    6    12 
2636   1999-11-04    Anthony Moorhouse     53   52   Olive Martin          6    6    12 
2867   2000-10-24    Andrew Ferguson       46   49   Helen Smith           6    6    12 
2928   2001-01-17    Stuart Anderson       41   57   Bill Rennie           5    7    12 
451    1986-10-21    Steve Wood            53   49   Paul Robson           5    6    11 
649    1987-10-09    Jim Findlay           50   54   Ian Cook              5    6    11 
788    1988-08-01    Wayne Blackburn       30   63   Cliff Boynton         4    7    11 
898    1989-08-21    Debbie Williams       45   65   Mark Pont             5    6    11 
1495   1994-02-23    Gus Stewart           45   56   Gordon McLurey        5    6    11 
1505   1994-03-09    Julia Perthen         46   62   John Mullings         5    6    11 
2005   1997-05-14    Natasha Casie Chetty  40   47   Robert Shaw           5    6    11 
2044   1997-07-08    Paul Harrison         45   52   Joy Hill              5    6    11 
2268   1998-05-25    Daniel Summers        59   55   Helen Ross            6    5    11 
2356   1998-09-24    Alan Dyson            39   46   Peter Preston Igweke  5    6    11 
2461   1999-02-18    David Andrew          57   34   Ian Knox              7    4    11 
2591   1999-09-02    Mickie O'Neill        41   53   Geraldine Curran      5    6    11 
2607   1999-09-24    Jean O'Neill          47   54   Christine Silverwood  5    6    11 
2696   2000-01-26    John Snedden          45   60   Joel Davey            5    6    11 
2708   2000-02-11    Barbara Rogers        30   65   Daniel Vanniasingham  3    8    11 
2726   2000-03-08    Lisa Hermann          57   29   Geoffrey Masters      7    4    11 
2773   2000-05-12    Davina Forrester      55   56   Naomi Thorburn        6    5    11 
2776   2000-05-17    Peter McGuigan        65   41   Chris Harris          7    4    11 
2781   2000-05-29    Mei Ling Simons       54   57   Jacqueline Carter     5    6    11 
2782   2000-05-30    Jacqueline Carter     62   57   Eddy Ignace           6    5    11 
2902   2000-12-12    Stephen Briggs        45   55   James Aukett          5    6    11 
3021   2001-05-31    Alison Moore          44   59   Stuart Moore          5    6    11

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:07 pm

sean d wrote:How many times have 3 or 4 different numbers combinations (ie 1L 2L 3L 4L 6S) been selected in the one game?
In the old 15 rounder, 247 games had different picks in all three numbers rounds.

In the new 15 rounder, up to the end of series 70 there have been five games where all four numbers rounds contained different picks. They are episodes 5740, 5876, 5888, 5934 and 5942. 53 further games had three distinct picks in them.

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Graeme Cole
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:33 pm

Jon Stitcher wrote:One of Zarte's opponents was Ian Talbot, an anagram of the word BATTALION

Have any other players had named that are anagrams of 9 letter words?
11 contestants whose names are anagrams of nine letter words, for you to have a go at at home. Some easy, some difficult.

Don Wright
Les Martin
Sibyl Ruth
Lester Mak
Ric Morgan
Ernie Aust
Nick Price
Brian Kent
Rob Thomas
Ian Talbot
I also happen to remember a Mike Grant a few weeks ago, who isn't in the database yet.
Have any players surnames been anagrams of valid 9 letter words? (Not counting people who's surnames are already valid 9 letter words like WHITEHEAD - although that could be a separate question)
Another bunch of anagrams here, some of them quite tricky:
MANSFIELD
PATTERSON
PRIESTLEY
MOORHOUSE
MASTERSON
GROSVENOR
MATHIESEN
COPPINGER
BASSINDER
SCHIAVONE
ROCHESTER
BROADHEAD
WRIGHTSON

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by JackHurst » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:23 pm

There's 3 I have an idea for, but no idea if the guess is valid:

ROCHESTER is HECTORERS?
BRIAN KENT is INTERBANK?
BASSINDER is RABIDNESS?


do any of them have more than 1 solution?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by George Pryn » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:56 am

What's the longest string of games in which the challengers' surnames have been in alphabetical order?

1. A string starting from any letter i.e DEFGHI
2. Just generally alphabetical i.e AeAzBCaCeD

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by George Pryn » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:28 pm

What's the smallest score range of an Octochamp over their 8 games? By this I mean the difference between their lowest and highest score, not their highest winning margin :o

YOU ROCK :D

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Laverty » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:05 pm

With the exception of Samir Pilica and Mark Davies, all of the octochamps in 2014 have finished their run on the last filmed show of their second day of recording (ie final day of a DC guest). Does this imply that making your debut straight after the lunch break gives you an advantage or a mere coincidence?
Definitely not Jamie McNeill or Schrodinger's Cat....

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by JackHurst » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:42 pm

James Laverty wrote:With the exception of Samir Pilica and Mark Davies, all of the octochamps in 2014 have finished their run on the last filmed show of their second day of recording (ie final day of a DC guest). Does this imply that making your debut straight after the lunch break gives you an advantage or a mere coincidence?
I think if they have a player who they think will probably win all 8 based on their audition performance, then they must put them on on a wednesday. It makes sense because then if they do win all 8, the producers have until the next day of recording to sort out the extra player.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Philip Wilson » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:40 am

Sorry if this has been asked before, but what are the lowest scores achieved by a contestant sitting next to DC? Newest format will do ;)

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:20 am

This might be more of an "Ask Anyone" but I'm on the lookout for any exceptionally difficult numbers games (ie. games that score 99% on the solver tool, and ideally with just a single solution) that anyone may have come across that meet any of the following criteria:-

- Six small selections
- A relatively small target (say below 400)
- Any that might look easy at first glance (eg. 50 25 7 6 3 3 => 712 from the solver FAQ example list)
- Any that are particularly interesting for any other reason (eg 75 50 25 8 7 3 => 939 from the series 19 final. Not a complicated solution arithmetically, (50x25-8)/3+75x7, but a work of beauty, who would even think of approaching it that way?)

I've seen the excellent list that Clive Brooker did earlier in this thread, so I'm not talking about any games that have actually appeared on the show, but any that anyone may have stumbled across on apterous or via some fancy complicated database mining blah blah stuff.

Many thanks.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jon Corby » Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:38 am

Yo.

This has probably been asked before, but: words spelt out in the selection. What can you tell me about these please? What's the longest? When have contestants offered such words? When have they wasted effort and offered a different word (same length) to one spelt out? etc.

If possible I'd be interested in "how likely" you are to get words spelt out (although I haven't really thought this through fully, and it might not make sense because it requires the contestant to pick the letters in a certain way).

Any information on rounds abandoned because of (presumably offensive) words being spelt out would also be great. Would/has a round be scrapped if there was an obvious max spelt out?

Also amusing words that have been spelt out (and left in) would be fun to know about.

You can also do backwards words if you like, as I remember there was one nine letter word spelt backwards. But that's less relevant and a different matter altogether really.

Summary: please regale me about rounds with words spelt out in the selection.

Many thanks.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Clive Brooker » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:33 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:This might be more of an "Ask Anyone" but I'm on the lookout for any exceptionally difficult numbers games (ie. games that score 99% on the solver tool, and ideally with just a single solution) that anyone may have come across that meet any of the following criteria:-

- Six small selections
- A relatively small target (say below 400)
- Any that might look easy at first glance (eg. 50 25 7 6 3 3 => 712 from the solver FAQ example list)
- Any that are particularly interesting for any other reason (eg 75 50 25 8 7 3 => 939 from the series 19 final. Not a complicated solution arithmetically, (50x25-8)/3+75x7, but a work of beauty, who would even think of approaching it that way?)
Amongst 4 large games, the game with the lowest target scoring 99% on Crossword Tools is this one:

100 75 50 25 10 5 : target 191

Interestingly, this example has two genuinely distinct solutions. The next lowest is 224 with the same selection. In total there are 610 4 large games with a score of 99% - rather more than 1%.

Using my methods, extending this sort of analysis beyond 4 large games might be a step too far.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:55 pm

Cheers Clive, that certainly covers one of the areas I was looking for.

I wonder which pot all the games with 90%-98% difficulty get shoved into?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Peter Mabey » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:32 pm

Hi Jon
I was going to ask the same - also notable near-misses like today's BRAODEN :? :)

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Clive Brooker » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:41 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:Cheers Clive, that certainly covers one of the areas I was looking for.

I wonder which pot all the games with 90%-98% difficulty get shoved into?
I'm pretty sure that the proportion of games getting the 99% rating is much lower than 1%.

I've always assumed that William T-P's criteria value division more highly than anything, and division is not often a feature of 6 small solutions. However it doesn't seem to be essential to have a division operation to score 99%, and 6 small examples do exist. Good luck with these:

8 7 5 5 3 3 : target 391
8 8 6 6 5 4 : target 471
9 9 7 5 3 1 : target 669

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