Ask Graeme?

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Jon Corby
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jon Corby » Tue May 06, 2014 8:26 am

PREFUCK isn't in my ODE2r electronic file that I made, so I'm 99.99% certain that it won't be in the book, but I'll check when I get home.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Innis Carson » Tue May 06, 2014 1:04 pm

It's not, it was added to that wikicap as a joke. See the recap.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Mark Deeks » Tue May 06, 2014 3:01 pm

:(
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He may not be liked on here, but you have to give some credit to Mark

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Ian Volante » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:35 pm

What's the largest regular-series defeat for an n-time winner? Similarly, what's the ranking when those losing margins are divided by the total score of the victor?
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:20 pm

Ian Volante wrote:What's the largest regular-series defeat for an n-time winner?
I'm not sure if by "regular-series defeat" you mean a defeat in the prelims or a defeat in the prelims or series finals.

The highest margin over a zero-time winner was the highest winning margin ever.
Jim Page won 1 game then lost to Wendy Roe by 81 points.
Lee Bailey won 2 games then lost to Jonathan Coles by 85 points.
Chris Ball won 3 games and qualified for the quarter-finals, where she lost to Andy Platt by 86 points. If we discount finals games, the three-time winner with the highest losing margin is Alan Galt in this game (68).
Ben Nicholson won 4 games then lost to Jonathan Rawlinson by 67 points.
Mary Adie won 5 games and reached the semi-finals, where she lost to Edward McCullagh by 79 points. If we discount finals games, the five-time winner with the highest losing margin is Philip Whitnall in this game (48).
Daniel Peake won 6 games and reached the quarter-finals, where he lost to Conor Travers by 69 points. Discounting finals games, the six-time winner with the highest losing margin is Phyl Styles in this game (64).
David Butcher won 7 games and reached the quarter-finals, where he was beaten by Mark Deeks by 95 points. Discounting finals games, the seven-time winner with the highest losing margin is David Franks in this game (48). He was beaten by Lee Hartley, who qualified for the finals as one of the eight octochamps that series, which meant David Franks didn't.
Danny Hamilton won all 8 of his prelims, reached the semi-final, and was beaten by Julian Fell by 69 points. Five people have beaten octochamps in prelims (Edit: actually 11 people, I did something silly), and, as you'd expect, these are all cases where an octochamp had previously appeared in a separate run and lost. The largest such margin was when John Snedden beat future octochamp Amey Deshpande by 42 points. (Your 15-point victory over Bradley Cates is joint fourth.)
Ian Volante wrote:Similarly, what's the ranking when those losing margins are divided by the total score of the victor?
Not sure what's being asked for here. Do you mean divide these losing margins by the score of the victor in that game, or the eventual total for all the victor's games in that run?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:13 am

Graeme Cole wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:What's the largest regular-series defeat for an n-time winner?
I'm not sure if by "regular-series defeat" you mean a defeat in the prelims or a defeat in the prelims or series finals.

The highest margin over a zero-time winner was the highest winning margin ever.
Jim Page won 1 game then lost to Wendy Roe by 81 points.
Lee Bailey won 2 games then lost to Jonathan Coles by 85 points.
Chris Ball won 3 games and qualified for the quarter-finals, where she lost to Andy Platt by 86 points. If we discount finals games, the three-time winner with the highest losing margin is Alan Galt in this game (68).
Ben Nicholson won 4 games then lost to Jonathan Rawlinson by 67 points.
Mary Adie won 5 games and reached the semi-finals, where she lost to Edward McCullagh by 79 points. If we discount finals games, the five-time winner with the highest losing margin is Philip Whitnall in this game (48).
Daniel Peake won 6 games and reached the quarter-finals, where he lost to Conor Travers by 69 points. Discounting finals games, the six-time winner with the highest losing margin is Phyl Styles in this game (64).
David Butcher won 7 games and reached the quarter-finals, where he was beaten by Mark Deeks by 95 points. Discounting finals games, the seven-time winner with the highest losing margin is David Franks in this game (48). He was beaten by Lee Hartley, who qualified for the finals as one of the eight octochamps that series, which meant David Franks didn't.
Danny Hamilton won all 8 of his prelims, reached the semi-final, and was beaten by Julian Fell by 69 points. Five people have beaten octochamps in prelims (Edit: actually 11 people, I did something silly), and, as you'd expect, these are all cases where an octochamp had previously appeared in a separate run and lost. The largest such margin was when John Snedden beat future octochamp Amey Deshpande by 42 points. (Your 15-point victory over Bradley Cates is joint fourth.)
Ian Volante wrote:Similarly, what's the ranking when those losing margins are divided by the total score of the victor?
Not sure what's being asked for here. Do you mean divide these losing margins by the score of the victor in that game, or the eventual total for all the victor's games in that run?
I was thinking just in prelims, but you've covered both eventualities, so that's great.

My second thought was of a way to tease out the biggest shocks from such results, e.g. someone having a nightmare game during a long run rather than, say, Phyl running into another excellent player at the wrong moment, so yes, total points for the victor's run as the denominator.

Also, it's nice to find out that I'm the joint fourth-best countdowner ever, even if it is by a particularly spurious ranking method :)
Last edited by Ian Volante on Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:52 am

What are the lowest and highest eight-game totals of seven-time winners?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:22 pm

Ian Volante wrote:My second thought was of a way to tease out the biggest shocks from such results, e.g. someone having a nightmare game during a long run rather than, say, Phyl running into another excellent player at the wrong moment, so yes, total points for the victor's run as the denominator.
The losing margin divided by the victor's total score is in brackets.

9 rounders:
1-time winner Jane Atkins lost by 40 points to Eugene McGoldrick who scored a total of 102 over two games (0.392).
2-time winner Andrea Parker lost by 41 points to George Head who scored a total of 86 over two games (0.477).
3-time winner Andrew Newens lost by 40 points to Mary Jones who scored a total of 104 over two games (0.385).
4-time winner Verity Joubert lost by 36 points to Chris Williams who scored a total of 104 over two games (0.346). Chris Williams was invited back to play again the following series, as he'd had a couple of words disallowed in his original run which were brought in with the next dictionary change. This counted as a new run. Meanwhile, Verity Joubert, despite the heavy defeat in her fifth game, went on to win her series.
5-time winner Una Szewc received a shock 28 point defeat by John Shock, who scored 97 over two games (0.289).
6-time winner Kate Ritchie lost by 36 points to Daniel Burton who scored 103 over two games (0.350).
7-time winner Joan Orchard lost by 16 points to Peg Smith who scored 78 over two games (0.205).

15 rounders (either flavour):
1-time winner Phil Matthams lost by 72 points to Bernie Corrigan who scored 190 over two games (0.379).
2-time winner Tony Owen lost by 45 points to Nick Billington who scored 162 over two games (0.278).
3-time winner Martin Gilbert lost by 40 points to Paul Best who scored 146 over two games (0.274).
4-time winner Matthew Green lost by 32 points to Michael Howe who scored 157 over two games (0.204).
5-time winner Judith Armstrong lost by 42 points to Tim Charlton who scored 193 over two games (0.218).
6-time winner Victoria James lost by 18 points to Chris Rose who scored 135 over two games (0.133).
7-time winner Nikki Roberts lost by 38 points to Anne Haley who scored 185 over two games (0.205).
Last edited by Graeme Cole on Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:32 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:What are the lowest and highest eight-game totals of seven-time winners?
9 rounders (counting losing scores as well as winning scores, which wasn't always how it was done):
Lowest: Joan Orchard with 329.
Highest: Rodney Marrison with 455.

15 rounders:
Lowest: Peter Zyss with 617.
Highest: Steve Baines with 758.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Ian Volante » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:52 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:My second thought was of a way to tease out the biggest shocks from such results, e.g. someone having a nightmare game during a long run rather than, say, Phyl running into another excellent player at the wrong moment, so yes, total points for the victor's run as the denominator.
The losing margin divided by the victor's total score is in brackets.

9 rounders:
1-time winner Jane Atkins lost by 40 points to Eugene McGoldrick who scored a total of 102 over two games (0.392).
2-time winner Andrea Parker lost by 41 points to George Head who scored a total of 86 over two games (0.477).
3-time winner Andrew Newens lost by 40 points to Mary Jones who scored a total of 104 over two games (0.385).
4-time winner Verity Joubert lost by 36 points to Chris Williams who scored a total of 104 over two games (0.346). Chris Williams was invited back to play again the following series, as he'd had a couple of words disallowed in his original run which were brought in with the next dictionary change. This didn't count as a new run, though. Meanwhile, Verity Joubert, despite the heavy defeat in her fifth game, went on to win her series.
5-time winner Una Szewc received a shock 28 point defeat by John Shock, who scored 97 over two games (0.289).
6-time winner Kate Ritchie lost by 36 points to Daniel Burton who scored 103 over two games (0.350).
7-time winner Joan Orchard lost by 16 points to Peg Smith who scored 78 over two games (0.205).

15 rounders (either flavour):
1-time winner Phil Matthams lost by 72 points to Bernie Corrigan who scored 190 over two games (0.379).
2-time winner Tony Owen lost by 45 points to Nick Billington who scored 162 over two games (0.278).
3-time winner Martin Gilbert lost by 40 points to Paul Best who scored 146 over two games (0.274).
4-time winner Matthew Green lost by 32 points to Michael Howe who scored 157 over two games (0.204).
5-time winner Judith Armstrong lost by 42 points to Tim Charlton who scored 193 over two games (0.218).
6-time winner Victoria James lost by 18 points to Chris Rose who scored 135 over two games (0.133).
7-time winner Nikki Roberts lost by 38 points to Anne Haley who scored 185 over two games (0.205).
Thanks. An interesting way to highlight some forgotten games, if not that enlightening!
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:27 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:Chris Williams was invited back to play again the following series, as he'd had a couple of words disallowed in his original run which were brought in with the next dictionary change. This didn't count as a new run, though.
You've done that thing where you say the exact opposite of what you mean. You'd better edit it quick before anyone notices.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Ciaran McCarthy » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:23 pm

I just wondering is it rarely for the contestant lose a century in preliminary round?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:55 pm

Ciaran McCarthy wrote:I just wondering is it rarely for the contestant lose a century in preliminary round?
Very rare indeed. It's happened only six times in over 2,500 15-round prelims.
Mark Hartnett is the only person to find himself on both sides of this statistic.

Losing a prelim with a score of 100 or more is so rare that Terry Rattle, Micheal Harris and Lesley Hines were all subsequently invited back for special episodes for high-scoring losing contestants. So who knows, you might yet get to win the teapot.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Charlie Reams » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:15 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:Discounting finals games, the seven-time winner with the highest losing margin is David Franks in this game (48).
This game seems particularly worth highlighting. You might expect that the biggest defeat of a 7-time winner would come about from a few high-volatility rounds and some nines, but this game actually has a very modest max of 122 with no nines available, and the large margin was accumulated gradually over the course of seven winning spots. Top game.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:32 pm

Charlie Reams wrote:
Graeme Cole wrote:Discounting finals games, the seven-time winner with the highest losing margin is David Franks in this game (48).
This game seems particularly worth highlighting. You might expect that the biggest defeat of a 7-time winner would come about from a few high-volatility rounds and some nines, but this game actually has a very modest max of 122 with no nines available, and the large margin was accumulated gradually over the course of seven winning spots. Top game.
Interestingly it was pointed out once ages ago that on the basis of his first six wins, David Franks would have been a viscount and the number 1 seed in the previous series but instead didn't even make the quarter finals.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Laverty » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:30 pm

Spoilers for Series 70 included so I'll put it in a different colour

If Samir had beaten Andy in today's semi-final, would the final have been the first between two non UK born contestants? Seeing as Samir is from Bosnia and Mark from Dublin
Definitely not Jamie McNeill or Schrodinger's Cat....

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jack Worsley » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:28 pm

James, I don't think your question will be answerable as the database doesn't store information on where contestants were born.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:07 pm

Jack Worsley wrote:James, I don't think your question will be answerable as the database doesn't store information on where contestants were born.
Correct, I'm afraid. Although today's final was the first between two players who had appeared in a previous series.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Callum Todd » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:39 pm

Very minor spoilers for today's Countdown episode so I don't think it's necessary to do a colour change but let me know if you think otherwise and I'll edit this post:

In a round today, there was an amazing total of 17 seven-letter words available. Is that the flattest round in Countdown history?
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Robinson » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:11 pm

Callum Todd wrote:Very minor spoilers for today's Countdown episode so I don't think it's necessary to do a colour change but let me know if you think otherwise and I'll edit this post:

In a round today, there was an amazing total of 17 seven-letter words available. Is that the flattest round in Countdown history?
Nowhere close, I remember one there was about 30, if not more :!:
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Callum Todd » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:43 pm

James Robinson wrote:
Callum Todd wrote:Very minor spoilers for today's Countdown episode so I don't think it's necessary to do a colour change but let me know if you think otherwise and I'll edit this post:

In a round today, there was an amazing total of 17 seven-letter words available. Is that the flattest round in Countdown history?
Nowhere close, I remember one there was about 30, if not more :!:
Wow that's incredible. Perhaps I should rephrase my question then to maximise the interestingness(es) of the answer: what is the flattest round in Countdown history?
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:46 pm

James Robinson wrote:
Callum Todd wrote:Very minor spoilers for today's Countdown episode so I don't think it's necessary to do a colour change but let me know if you think otherwise and I'll edit this post:

In a round today, there was an amazing total of 17 seven-letter words available. Is that the flattest round in Countdown history?
Nowhere close, I remember one there was about 30, if not more :!:
I'm surprised it isn't a better-known thing. It must come from a set of nine fairly common letters, and must have come up a few times. So what's the flattest round possible?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Johnny Canuck » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:30 pm

James Robinson wrote:
Callum Todd wrote:Very minor spoilers for today's Countdown episode so I don't think it's necessary to do a colour change but let me know if you think otherwise and I'll edit this post:

In a round today, there was an amazing total of 17 seven-letter words available. Is that the flattest round in Countdown history?
Nowhere close, I remember one there was about 30, if not more :!:
The Series 2 final had a round with the letters (in some order) ACDEIRRST and it had over 30 valid words. This was before ERRATICS was valid.
"The use-mention distinction" is not "strictly enforced here".

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:28 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
James Robinson wrote:
Callum Todd wrote:Very minor spoilers for today's Countdown episode so I don't think it's necessary to do a colour change but let me know if you think otherwise and I'll edit this post:

In a round today, there was an amazing total of 17 seven-letter words available. Is that the flattest round in Countdown history?
Nowhere close, I remember one there was about 30, if not more :!:
I'm surprised it isn't a better-known thing. It must come from a set of nine fairly common letters, and must have come up a few times. So what's the flattest round possible?
According to Apterous, RYWDOENLA has 30 6s available. It came up in this game. It's quite a fragile record for a selection to have though. A single word coming into the dictionary with one more letter turns it into a darrenic selection and joint worst by this criterion.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Johnny Canuck » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:49 pm

Has there ever been a (televised) round whose selection began with the letters "CEI"? I found a Countdown blooper in which those three letters are chosen and then somebody backstage sticks their hand through the letters board, terrifying Carol. Presumably this was not left in the final version, but would there be any way to tell what episode it was from?
"The use-mention distinction" is not "strictly enforced here".

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:50 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:Has there ever been a (televised) round whose selection began with the letters "CEI"? I found a Countdown blooper in which those three letters are chosen and then somebody backstage sticks their hand through the letters board, terrifying Carol. Presumably this was not left in the final version, but would there be any way to tell what episode it was from?
There have been six: round 7 of episode 1411, round 6 of episode 1701, round 6 of episode 2253, round 2 of episode 2710, round 3 of episode 3406, and round 8 of episode S31.

Here's the clip. I'm pretty sure it's from the 1990s, which would rule out episodes 2710, 3406, and S31. S31 didn't feature Carol anyway.

I don't recognise the contestant in the challenger's chair picking the letters, but maybe someone else knows if it's John Howell, John Molloy or Alan Reynolds?

Of course, they could have scrapped the CEI and started the round again, in which case it might not be any of the above.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:04 pm

Regarding the flattest-round-ever question, Gevin is right - I haven't done that because it's so dependent on having the right dictionary, something we know we don't have for series prior to the adoption of the ODE2r.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:06 am

Graeme Cole wrote:Regarding the flattest-round-ever question, Gevin is right - I haven't done that because it's so dependent on having the right dictionary, something we know we don't have for series prior to the adoption of the ODE2r.
Would you be able to find the flattest rounds that have occurred according to the database even if it isn't entirely accurate? If you give a top 5 or 10, some of them at least should survive a dictionary change.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jack Worsley » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:04 am

This may have been asked before but I'll do it anyway.

I remember coming across this video a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEpQ05577TE Have there been any other occasions where a contestant's added up all six numbers to reach the target or where it's been possible to achieve it in this way?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:19 pm

Jack Worsley wrote:This may have been asked before but I'll do it anyway.

I remember coming across this video a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEpQ05577TE Have there been any other occasions where a contestant's added up all six numbers to reach the target or where it's been possible to achieve it in this way?
Contrary to Carol's claim, that wasn't the first time the target had been the sum of all the numbers - it had happened three times prior to then. It's also happened three times since.

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_163 (round 4)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_1351 (round 4)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_1424 (round 4)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_3605 (round 14)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_4618 (round 14)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5001 (round 14)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5883 (round 14)

Theresa McKeown in episode 1424 was the first contestant to actually solve it this way. Then Steve Graston did it in that video, then Paul Archard did it in episode 5001.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:47 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:
Jack Worsley wrote:This may have been asked before but I'll do it anyway.

I remember coming across this video a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEpQ05577TE Have there been any other occasions where a contestant's added up all six numbers to reach the target or where it's been possible to achieve it in this way?
Contrary to Carol's claim, that wasn't the first time the target had been the sum of all the numbers - it had happened three times prior to then. It's also happened three times since.

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_163 (round 4)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_1351 (round 4)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_1424 (round 4)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_3605 (round 14)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_4618 (round 14)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5001 (round 14)
http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_5883 (round 14)

Theresa McKeown in episode 1424 was the first contestant to actually solve it this way. Then Steve Graston did it in that video, then Paul Archard did it in episode 5001.
Always in round 4 in 9-rounders or round 14 in 15-rounders.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by JimBentley » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:48 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:Always in round 4 in 9-rounders or round 14 in 15-rounders.
It's a conspiracy!

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jon Stitcher » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:23 am

Having met Lisa Hermann at the quizzing Grand Prix she mentioned that the person who beat her won her next game with a very low score so I looked the game up

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_2729

COLOR is no longer valid due to countdown rules so the winner should have actually lost this game, how many other games would have had a different result if US spellings had never been allowed on Countdown?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Johnny Canuck » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:42 pm

In round 5 of this game, the contestants' two offerings had no letters in common. Has this happened in any other instances (excluding those where a contestant offers nothing)?
"The use-mention distinction" is not "strictly enforced here".

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Robinson » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:51 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:In round 5 of this game, the contestants' two offerings had no letters in common. Has this happened in any other instances (excluding those where a contestant offers nothing)?
Round 7 here, and they were only 3's in this one, so a bit easier. :P
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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:14 pm

Jon Stitcher wrote:Having met Lisa Hermann at the quizzing Grand Prix she mentioned that the person who beat her won her next game with a very low score so I looked the game up

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_2729

COLOR is no longer valid due to countdown rules so the winner should have actually lost this game, how many other games would have had a different result if US spellings had never been allowed on Countdown?
You'd need to know what word they would have offered with the different rules in place.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Laverty » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:47 pm

This may well have be asked before, but how different would the seedings of recent series be if games were scored in Stepdown scoring?
Definitely not Jamie McNeill or Schrodinger's Cat....

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by James Laverty » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:47 pm

This may well have be asked before, but how different would the seedings of recent series be if games were scored in Stepdown scoring?
Definitely not Jamie McNeill or Schrodinger's Cat....

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:25 pm

James Laverty wrote:This may well have be asked before, but how different would the seedings of recent series be if games were scored in Stepdown scoring?
James Laverty wrote:This may well have be asked before, but how different would the seedings of recent series be if games were scored in Stepdown scoring?
It has. By you.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:26 pm

What's the average number of vowels and consonants per selection?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:25 pm

Nine.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Ben Wilson » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:46 pm


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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by JimBentley » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:04 pm

Fred Mumford wrote:Nine.
I just need to say Fred (that in the absence of "Likes" - you may not remember those), I have been enjoying your work here over the past few months and I'm pretty much part of your fan club.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:16 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:
Jon Stitcher wrote:Having met Lisa Hermann at the quizzing Grand Prix she mentioned that the person who beat her won her next game with a very low score so I looked the game up

http://wiki.apterous.org/Episode_2729

COLOR is no longer valid due to countdown rules so the winner should have actually lost this game, how many other games would have had a different result if US spellings had never been allowed on Countdown?
You'd need to know what word they would have offered with the different rules in place.
This. Also I don't have any programmatic way of telling if something's a US spelling or not.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:36 pm

Gavin Chipper wrote:What's the average number of vowels and consonants per selection?
3.54 vowels per selection is the average for all letters rounds since the show started.

3.43 for the 1980s.

3.39 for the 1990s.

3.56 for the 2000s.

3.70 for all games so far in the 2010s.

3.76 for the 30th Birthday Championship.

4.03 for rounds picked by Jack Hurst.

4.60 for rounds picked by Jonathan Rawlinson.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Johnny Canuck » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:43 am

Fred Mumford wrote:Nine.
Almost precisely right.
"The use-mention distinction" is not "strictly enforced here".

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:59 am

JimBentley wrote:
Fred Mumford wrote:Nine.
I just need to say Fred (that in the absence of "Likes" - you may not remember those), I have been enjoying your work here over the past few months and I'm pretty much part of your fan club.
Wow, thank you. The great thing about my fan club is its exclusivity. Loneliness may become an issue though.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Jon Corby » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:09 am

JimBentley wrote:
Fred Mumford wrote:Nine.
I just need to say Fred (that in the absence of "Likes" - you may not remember those), I have been enjoying your work here over the past few months and I'm pretty much part of your fan club.
Who is this Fred Mumford though? It's a (Rentaghost) pseudonym, right? So I want to know all about the man behind this "Fred Mumford" (by which I don't mean Jim, as in being behind Fred bumming him going "ooh you're so great").

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by JimBentley » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:59 pm

Jon Corby wrote:
JimBentley wrote:
Fred Mumford wrote:Nine.
I just need to say Fred (that in the absence of "Likes" - you may not remember those), I have been enjoying your work here over the past few months and I'm pretty much part of your fan club.
Who is this Fred Mumford though? It's a (Rentaghost) pseudonym, right? So I want to know all about the man behind this "Fred Mumford" (by which I don't mean Jim, as in being behind Fred bumming him going "ooh you're so great").
I stand behind my standing behind Fred Mumford, bumming him or not. It's a stance I'm proud of.

You're just jealous because your time has passed and new, quicker and funnier people are marginalising you. They're doing the jokes you used to do, before you got old and slow, and bald.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:42 pm

JimBentley wrote:
Jon Corby wrote:
JimBentley wrote: I just need to say Fred (that in the absence of "Likes" - you may not remember those), I have been enjoying your work here over the past few months and I'm pretty much part of your fan club.
Who is this Fred Mumford though? It's a (Rentaghost) pseudonym, right? So I want to know all about the man behind this "Fred Mumford" (by which I don't mean Jim, as in being behind Fred bumming him going "ooh you're so great").
I stand behind my standing behind Fred Mumford, bumming him or not. It's a stance I'm proud of.

You're just jealous because your time has passed and new, quicker and funnier people are marginalising you. They're doing the jokes you used to do, before you got old and slow, and bald.
But how many people can they bully off the forum? That's the true measure. And Fred's "nine" comment hasn't got rid of me.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Fred Mumford » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:21 am

Graeme, what is the correct response to the social dilemma of not really wanting to be bummed by an octochamp, but not wanting to appear ungrateful either?

(I'm really referring to just the 15 round era, but if you have it for the 9 round era too then great).

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Ben Wilson » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:47 am

Because I need an ego boost: How many people have lost two or more games with a score of 90+?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:12 pm

Ben Wilson wrote:Because I need an ego boost: How many people have lost two or more games with a score of 90+?
Five. You, Jon O'Neill, David O'Donnell, Innis Carson and Adam Gillard.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Johnny Canuck » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:07 pm

I've no clue how I managed to notice, but round 5 on Wednesday and round 11 yesterday shared seven of the same letters in the same positions (N__AOELXO). Is this a first? Have any two selections ever matched eight letters in the same positions?
"The use-mention distinction" is not "strictly enforced here".

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by George Pryn » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:12 pm

Graeme Cole wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:Because I need an ego boost: How many people have lost two or more games with a score of 90+?
Five. You, Jon O'Neill, David O'Donnell, Innis Carson and Adam Gillard.
Who has the best winning margin of numbers rounds over their octochamp heat games?

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:54 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:I've no clue how I managed to notice, but round 5 on Wednesday and round 11 yesterday shared seven of the same letters in the same positions (N__AOELXO). Is this a first? Have any two selections ever matched eight letters in the same positions?
Up to the end of series 70, 1,989 letters rounds (out of about 50,000) shared exactly seven letters in the same positions with another round, so it's not that rare. It is rare for it to happen in such quick succession, though. The record is in this game, when rounds 9 and 13 had seven of the same letters in the same places.

60 rounds have shared eight letters in the same positions with another round, none of them particularly close together - the closest were round 4 of this game and round 4 of this game, 55 days later, and round 2 of this game and round 1 of this game, 56 days (but fewer episodes) later.

In over 50,000 letters rounds, the same selection in the same order has never come up twice.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Matt Morrison » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:14 pm

Some top shelf Cole there.

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Graeme Cole » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:06 am

George Pryn wrote:
Graeme Cole wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:Because I need an ego boost: How many people have lost two or more games with a score of 90+?
Five. You, Jon O'Neill, David O'Donnell, Innis Carson and Adam Gillard.
Who has the best winning margin of numbers rounds over their octochamp heat games?
Old 15 round format

The person at the top of this table isn't any of the usual names that might spring to mind. Mike Pullin did well on the numbers with 216/237, but his eight opponents only managed 47 numbers points between them, giving him a numbers margin of 169.

Top 10:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Mike Pullin           216    47   169 
Mark Deeks            228    84   144 
Jon O'Neill           224    84   140 
Jack Worsley          237   100   137 
Eoin Monaghan         229    92   137 
Junaid Mubeen         218    87   131 
Michael Bowden        208    77   131 
Edward McCullagh      234   114   120 
John Hunt             213    97   116 
Ned Pendleton         188    74   114 
New 15 round format (up to the end of series 70)

All 12:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Jonathan Liew         256    81   175 
Jen Steadman          295   150   145 
Dylan Taylor          311   180   131 
Giles Hutchings       286   171   115 
Andy Naylor           249   141   108 
Joe McGonigle         239   131   108 
Glen Webb             292   187   105 
Mark Murray           292   194    98  
Bradley Cates         279   195    84  
Eileen Taylor         220   148    72  
Samir Pilica          215   162    53  
Alex Fish             264   228    36
If we're counting moral octochampdom, Callum Todd scored 257 and his opponents got 127, so he had a margin of 130.

Andy Platt fits into neither format (or both, if you prefer) - he scored 239 and his opponents got 94, making his margin 145.

9 round format

Top 10 plus ties:

Code: Select all

                       +     -    MARGIN
Graham Nash           141   54    87  
John Hadfield         125   40    85  
James Martin          145   77    68  
David Williams        142   77    65  
Melvin Hetherington   144   80    64  
Peter Hutchings       108   44    64  
Satbir Gupta          124   61    63  
Dag Griffiths         102   40    62  
Allan Saldanha        138   77    61  
Scott Mearns          129   69    60
David Trace            87   27    60  

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Johnny Canuck » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:00 am

Graeme Cole wrote:60 rounds have shared eight letters in the same positions with another round, none of them particularly close together - the closest were round 4 of this game and round 4 of this game, 55 days later, and round 2 of this game and round 1 of this game, 56 days (but fewer episodes) later.
This genuinely surprised me! I was expecting that 7 matching letters might never have come up before, let alone 8. Anyways, thanks for crunching the numbers; I know your database might not have been suited to answering it.
"The use-mention distinction" is not "strictly enforced here".

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Re: Ask Graeme?

Post by Gavin Chipper » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:28 pm

If this hasn't already been asked, which 9-letter combination (so any order) has come out the most? Might as well have a top 10 or 20 with the maxes alongside!

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