Training Methods/Methods of improvement

[JackHurst]

I thought I'd create a topic to discuss what methods (If any) we use to get better at countdown.

If you've got your own methods that you don't want to reveal thats fine, don't think I've made this thread to try and coax you into revealing them. On the other hand, if you feel like sharing things you thing people might find useful, then please do

I'm currently doing a couple of things to try and improve my game, and its working a little bit, but I'm not really improving as quickly as I'd like to be.

Letters
The main thing i use is stems, for this I've made a sheet in excel that has one column with base words in it, another column with stemming letters in it, and then more columns with my attempts to recall the correct stems in them. Whenever I do this, I hide the columns with the correct
"answers" in them so i can just see the base word and the letter, and then I'll type my response into the corresponding cell. When I've done as many as i can, I'll unhide the columns with the correct answers in them, and see how i did. If there are any which i couldnt recall, or got wrong, I'll overwrite the cell to contain the correct answer, but I'll make it bold and red to indicate that i got it wrong. I do this for words of length 6, 7 and 8, so that I'm learning how to spot lots of 7's, 8's, and 9's. Stemming the 6's isnt going that well, because sometimes i dont even spot that a potential stem is available, whereas with the 8's I will normally always spot if there is a potential stem, that I've covered.
Another thing i recently did with letters was to dig out the 5 or so most common 9's with the aid of statland, and note down any other possible 9's that can be obtained with the same set of consonants, but a set of vowels with one vowel different form the original set. I'm not sure weather this is useful at the moment, but if i find that it is, i might do it with more nines, and even some eights.
There's not really anything else Im doing at the moment, but I'd like to think of some other methods I could use. Of course, these are just methods of learning ways to spot high probability words, and what I use for putting it into practice is apterous, which is brilliant.


Numbers
Numbers attacks on apterous are the best thing for me. I also tried figuring out most of the stuff you can do with the four large numbers which will hopefully give me a significant edge in four large one day (I'm far from it now though). I also found a list of numbers you can get to by multiplying different combinations of 3 small numbers (someone posted it in another topic), but I've not really studied it yet. Hopefully that will come into use for 6 small. As for the other numbers choices, I've assumed that the skills will be a mixture of the stuff used for 6 small and 4 large.

Conundrums
Just conundrum attacks on apterous. I'd be interested to hear if anybody has anything else that they believe has improved their conundrums.


Dunno if this topic is useful, or if its in the right area. Punch me in the nads if its not.

Oh yeah, sorry Im a massive fuck up at writing anything more then 3 sentences long, most of the stuff above is probably so grammatically incorrect that it makes little sense.

[Michael Wallace]

I'm just practising until I'm at the stage where I don't miss any words I know, I reckon then I might start thinking about all this 'targeted learning' business.

[Junaid Mubeen]

Ask Clare Sudbery, she knows these things.

[Derek Hazell]

Ask Clare Sudbery, she knows these things.

Hehe, in the time I was looking for Clare Sudbery's links to her definitive guide you posted this


Edit: Here it is anyway: http://www.claresudbery.co.uk/losers-gu ... tdown.html

[Charlie Reams]

Read this and everything in this. Watch the show and note anything you miss. Come to COLIN etc to get used to playing the game for real.

But the main thing is to practise. A lot. Nothing else will cause you to improve as quickly as playing a lot of games, especially Classic Games.

[Innis Carson]

Have to agree with just playing lots of games being the key thing to do. Over time you'll get plenty of practice at each area of the game, and you'll inevitably see loads of high probability words come up again and again, so they'll stick in your mind. And most importantly, you'll probably have more fun than you would by staring at stems/word lists, which I think makes you more likely to take it in.

[Paul Howe]

I think AnaHack, another Charlie Reams creation, is actually a better learning tool than playing lots of apterous, at least in terms of providing rapid fire exposure to high probability words. There are some areas where it could be improved, but those who are really serious about learning should consider adding it to their training arsenal.

[JimBentley]

What Innis said. For about a week (probably not even that long) in 2002, I tried learning words from stems but it was so mind-numbingly boring that I just gave up. Not only was it boring, I thought it probably hindered seeing the more unusual word constructions cos you're obsessing on all the high probability stuff. That said, I don't doubt that in order to become Ultimate Countdown Warrior, you do need to learn a lot of that, but as that's not what I'm into, I've never bothered. It might sound strange, but I quite like being highly fallible, it makes getting a good word all the more enjoyable.

Just play loads of games. I know it's not original advice but I think it is the best advice.

[JackHurst]

I think AnaHack, another Charlie Reams creation, is actually a better learning tool than playing lots of apterous, at least in terms of providing rapid fire exposure to high probability words. There are some areas where it could be improved, but those who are really serious about learning should consider adding it to their training arsenal.

What is AnaHack? Anyone got Linkage?

[Darren Carter]

I tried learning stems and the like but none of it was going in and I was still missing them on Apterous. I also had a list of words that I picked up from watching the show, playing Apterous, and found in Uni textbooks whilst revising (had AUTARKY and ABUNDANCE written down from my International Trade book!) - I took this list with me to Manchester but then realised the chance of these words coming up were literally zilch so binned it.

So basically, just practice.

[Kai Laddiman]

Using CountMax helps you win Countdown.

[Kirk Bevins]

What is AnaHack? Anyone got Linkage?

Damn. I kept this secret although I may refer to it ambiguously in my Countdown experience. I agree Anahack really helps you learn obscure words quickly but it can be rather tedious.

[Charlie Reams]

Oh, and read this and all the related pages.

[Gavin Chipper]

http://www.c4countdown.co.uk/viewtopic. ... &sk=t&sd=a

I don't think it's been linked to. A lot of waffle, but some interesting stuff too.

[Derek Hazell]

I don't think it's been linked to.

Only by proxy.

[Paul Howe]

What is AnaHack? Anyone got Linkage?

Basically it presents you with a subset of words from a word list and you have to get as many as you can within a time limit. The words you missed are then more likely to be presented to you in future rounds. It helps quite a lot, although there are some frustrating things like not being able to define your own word lists and the language used to define word lists being a bit inflexible. And, as Kirk mentioned, its really tedious. I used to play it on the train to work and I would credit it as the main factor in helping me improve from my heats to the series finals.

There used to be a link on Charlie's website, no idea if this is still the case.

[Kai Laddiman]

The main thing i use is stems, for this I've made a sheet in excel that has one column with base words in it, another column with stemming letters in it, and then more columns with my attempts to recall the correct stems in them. Whenever I do this, I hide the columns with the correct "answers" in them so i can just see the base word and the letter, and then I'll type my response into the corresponding cell. When I've done as many as i can, I'll unhide the columns with the correct answers in them, and see how i did. If there are any which i couldnt recall, or got wrong, I'll overwrite the cell to contain the correct answer, but I'll make it bold and red to indicate that i got it wrong.

I might nick this technique for the fruitful 7s cos I think they're a good bunch to know.

OT, I don't (didn't) really have any special methods for training (for my TV appearances I was basically using my natural vocab); before I found this place (which has dominated me completely) I used the Countdown puzzle book to practice, but now I sometimes play on apterous.

[David O'Donnell]

I tried to turn my laziness into a strength. For instance, I would add -ies, -iest, -ier, -oid, -tion, -ite, -ate to almost anything but remembering valid words constructed in this way is a useful short-cut to actually spotting the words. Like ROADIEST^ for ASTEROID, PORNIES^ for ORPINES etc.

In order to construct my word list I took all the really high probability letters from PREDATIONS and created bogus words based on the endings described above. Firstly, I would check if they have a valid anagram and then stem it regardless if the root word was valid or not.

I expanded my word list by introducing second string letters like G,M,L etc (though L is not really second string!) and followed a similar process for them.

Kinda tedious, kinda dull? Definitely. Even the post describing what I did is bloody dull! But you do get tickled when a root word, that doesn't look promising, seems to generate loadsa words when stemmed.

The upshot is that a solid bank of stems can mean that you spot a handy 7 or 8 instantly and have the other 30 seconds to work on something special. I needed these words, like a comforter, before I went on the show: I wasn't going to risk brain freeze or so I thought. Strangely, some of my best spots (the ones of which I was proud, not necessarily good by apteroid standards) were non-stem ones while I missed loadsa stem add-ons - SPECIATE (PACIEST) being the root word), MEDIANTS ffs (daniest^), and oh yes LATTICES (LACIEST) but no-one ever mentioned my missing LATTICES.

[David Williams]

I'm not convinced by the 'just practise' argument. Do Scrabble players just play Scrabble?

Has anyone tried any sort of systematic analysis? For example, what proportion of letter selections contain three of AEIO and three/four of DGNRST? How many possible words of seven or more letters contain these? How do you sort them to ensure you never miss a maximum? And how much effort would it take to memorise them and be faultless?

Education has finished till September, the weather's lousy. What are you waiting for?

[Jon Corby]

I'm not convinced by the 'just practise' argument. Do Scrabble players just play Scrabble?

Bit different I reckon, Scrabble has tactics beyond making the longest word available. Countdown doesn't. It really is that simple. If you sit there playing with a realistic letter distribution and a (near perfect) dictionary telling you which words you missed, that pretty much takes care of it. If certain letter selections come up much more than others, you'll see them much more than others, and remember them.

[David Williams]

Are you suggesting that Scrabble players improve their word-finding skills, which are similar to Countdown, by practise, and improve their tactical play by study? If anything I'd have thought it was the other way round. Not that I've ever played Scrabble outside my own house, or any competitive Countdown for several years.

[Charlie Reams]

I think there are a couple of differences between Countdown and Scrabble that are likely to affect the way players train:-

1) The Scrabble lexicon is much, much larger and full of esoterica, so there's a lot more high-probability stuff that you just won't know if you don't study.

2) Studying for Scrabble is more rapidly profitable; the payoff for learning the 2s, 3s and top 100 7s and 8s is immediate and sizeable. Even the really useful Countdown stuff like Fruitful 7s is going to be useful maybe a few times in your whole "career".

3) You can play Scrabble for your whole life, while you only get 165 letters rounds at best, so making the time investment has a greater length of time to pay off. That's assuming that you're training to go on the show, which most players are; I don't know of anyone who continued to study just for apterous, although plenty of them continue to play (most of this forum).

4) The range of words you need to know in Scrabble is larger; everything from 2 - 9 is potentially useful, and the top players may learn even more. In Countdown there's little value in words outside the 5 - 9 range, and I don't know of anyone who actively studied words shorter than 7.

5) Scrabble is less forgiving; it may be that only one of the many anagrams of RETAINS will fit on the board. In Countdown it's as good to know one as to know them all. Likewise, as Corby says, you're only interested in finding the longest word, so you won't ever be "punished" for failing to spot shorter words from the same selection. Also, if you miss a difficult word in Countdown then it's likely that your opponent will too, so that's only a lost opportunity; in Scrabble, if you miss a difficult word, it's you alone that loses out, and worse still an error in rack management will roll over to your next turn, which has no analogy in Countdown.

6) The standard in Countdown is simply not as high. It's possible to get to series finalist standard within 6 months just by playing a lot. That would not be possible in Scrabble, which attracts a much larger (and international) player base.

[David O'Donnell]

I'm with David here. I think the similarities between Countdown and Scrabble are so pronounced that you cannot consistently argue that one requires specific preparation and the other generalised practice.

General practice improves your pattern recognition, sure, and is essential but stem practice gives you systematic means of forming words.

This is incontrovertible so I fail to see how it has engendered debate at all. What's more, is that both Jon and Charlie have their own list of stems built up (one time Jon berated me for not knowing POINTERS +).

[Jon Corby]

Are you suggesting that Scrabble players improve their word-finding skills, which are similar to Countdown, by practise, and improve their tactical play by study? If anything I'd have thought it was the other way round. Not that I've ever played Scrabble outside my own house, or any competitive Countdown for several years.

I rarely play Scrabble so I don't really know, but I didn't really think it was that similar at all. I don't consider Scrabble to be about trying to make the longest word from your letters, it's about trying to make as many words as you can from your rack, and finding which ones score highest, which is highly dependent on the board. Maybe I'm wrong though. The point I was trying to make was that they're different, so to suggest that because I advocate something for Countdown that I would therefore automatically do the same for Scrabble doesn't hold and has no relevance.

And Doddy, I have never really learnt stems like that. I wrote a bit into my Countdown program (as you know) which enabled you to do this, but once I'd done it I played with it for a bit thinking "wow, this is quite cool" I never really looked at it again. It took me ages to learn them all for SCENARIO which for some reason I became fixated on, and I realised then that this wasn't going to be very productive. If I said anything to you like that, I'd imagine (surprisingly) that it was tongue-in-cheek, most likely to wind you up

I've never ever produced lists to learn, save that a while before CoC I decided (as much because I have fun programming such things) to do a proper "7s that are never the max" list. Once I'd made it, I made a half-arsed attempt at learning and again quickly thought "screw this, it'll take me ages". Of course, I may have spotted SPIRITED if I'd paid more attention to this, but I'd also argue that I wouldn't have missed DIRTIEST if I hadn't been obsessing about finding STRIPED+I

[Charlie Reams]

I'm with David here. I think the similarities between Countdown and Scrabble are so pronounced that you cannot consistently argue that one requires specific preparation and the other generalised practice.

In case this wasn't clear from the above, I agree. If you want to become Super Awesome, you'd probably benefit from Anahack or whatever. However, most players would benefit far more from playing, because that improves their ability at spotting words they already know, and allows them to absorb new words roughly in proportion to how useful they're going to be. My recall of a word is much better when I can think "oh yes, I saw Paul Howe play this in Goatdown once" than if I'm recalling it from a list of another 100 words with no extrinsic significance. And, as Innis says, it's just a lot more fun, which means you're going to do it for longer, and I think you're underestimating how important that is.

[Kirk Bevins]

And, as Innis says, it's just a lot more fun, which means you're going to do it for longer, and I think you're underestimating how important that is.

This. I trained a bit on high-probability words and awesome 8s on Anahack before my shows but it was so boring. When my internet was down this gave me the chance to fire up the program and practise my pattern recognition. When the internet is up (thankfully most of the time) I find it hard to play Anahack as it's tedious and just play shitloads of Apterous because it's fun. Simple.

[David O'Donnell]

And, as Innis says, it's just a lot more fun, which means you're going to do it for longer, and I think you're underestimating how important that is.

I trained a bit on high-probability words and awesome 8s on Anahack before my shows but it was so boring. When my internet was down this gave me the chance to fire up the program and practise my pattern recognition. Simple.

If it's really that simple why did you suggest earlier in this thread that you didn't want to publicise the availability of Anahack?

[David O'Donnell]

I'm with David here. I think the similarities between Countdown and Scrabble are so pronounced that you cannot consistently argue that one requires specific preparation and the other generalised practice.

In case this wasn't clear from the above, I agree. If you want to become Super Awesome, you'd probably benefit from Anahack or whatever. However, most players would benefit far more from playing, because that improves their ability at spotting words they already know, and allows them to absorb new words roughly in proportion to how useful they're going to be. My recall of a word is much better when I can think "oh yes, I saw Paul Howe play this in Goatdown once" than if I'm recalling it from a list of another 100 words with no extrinsic significance. And, as Innis says, it's just a lot more fun, which means you're going to do it for longer, and I think you're underestimating how important that is .

How have you arrived at this conclusion?

[David O'Donnell]

And Doddy, I have never really learnt stems like that. I wrote a bit into my Countdown program (as you know) which enabled you to do this, but once I'd done it I played with it for a bit thinking "wow, this is quite cool" I never really looked at it again

You designed the program but didn't really use it yet told me that it was an extremely useful resource.

I was wondering why there is even a sniff of a debate here but I can only assume it's to conceal the depths of your lexonerdiness.

Don't worry, Jon, we are all sadsacks here.

[Charlie Reams]

How have you arrived at this conclusion?

We all know players like Innis and Jimmy who went from being mediocre/rubbish to being very strong by practising a lot. I don't think anyone made the same transition by studying a lot. Yet on paper studying is clearly going to be a more effective way to absorb new words and so on, so what gives? It must be that no one can actually motivate themselves to put equal time into both, at least until they reach a certain level of skill. If you were, in fact, accepting this level of significance, then I think we are having agreeings.

[Ben Wilson]

The main difference between Countdown and Scrabble is that, as said, Scrabble is much more tactical whilst Countdown is a simple 'find the longest word' game. It's practice at this- the word finding- that helps people improve so much.

Also with Scrabble there's a lot of repitition between games- good rack management is arguably as important as a large vocabulary. 90% of all bonuses available are from the top 10 or 15% of probability, iirc (Craig'll have more accurate details).

[David O'Donnell]

If you were, in fact, accepting this level of significance, then I think we are having agreeings.

Agreed!

My posts were really motivated as the author of this thread is someone who does practise quite often on apterous and was being rather specific that he was looking for training methods.

[Charlie Reams]

My posts were really motivated as the author of this thread is someone who does practise quite often on apterous and was being rather specific that he was looking for training methods.

Yep, and he shows every sign of improving. In my experience, one of the most common newbie mistakes is to over-analyse why they aren't as good as Kirk, and either conclude that they must be fundamentally rubbish (and therefore they give up) or to think they must be doing something "wrong". In fact it's usually neither, it's just that anagramming is a very unnatural thing to ask the brain to do and it takes quite a while to build up the right circuitry. So the advice "just practise a lot" is quite a considered response.

[Jon Corby]

You designed the program but didn't really use it yet told me that it was an extremely useful resource.

I was wondering why there is even a sniff of a debate here but I can only assume it's to conceal the depths of your lexonerdiness.

Don't worry, Jon, we are all sadsacks here.

When did I say that? I certainly would have written it thinking it was going to be an incredibly useful feature, and it is still a cool and interesting one, but I barely used it at all as any kind of training aid. The whole program itself was extremely useful because it contained the proper dictionary (pretty much) and showed you all the words you missed. I'm bailing out of the whole Scrabble argument too because I know nothing about how to play Scrabble well (particularly), so my only point on that subject was to counter David W's "oh, so you say this works for Countdown, so it must work for Scrabble too?" argument by saying that ... no, not necessarily.

(I also have never seen Anahack.)

[Tom]

So for those who've been on in the last few years, how much training roughly have you done before appearing? i.e. playing apterous/studying word lists per day/week etc? Sounds like youse have put time and effort into this!

Stems I imagine can be useful but after you've learnt things like ADROIT + P = PAROTID the latter would probably jump at you the next time it appears.

About 10 years ago, I decided that I wanted to be a contestant and put in the practice before appearing. Though always good on numbers, my letters tactic was to look for words ending in ED, ING etc and always look for suffixes and prefixes in general. With conundrums, I always again looked for the suffixes and drew the conclusion that if a conundrum which had the letters ED in it and the answer didn't end in ED, then the conundurm answer usually began with a vowel.

Really upping my game I watched dictionary corner and remembered common and obscure words, played against the contestants and outside of watching played a PC game called Word Connect which was basically a knock off version of Scrabble and played against the computer on the high levels to learn more words. That said, I've never played Scrabble apart from the odd casual game, never did stems or studied a word list.

[JackHurst]

Thanks for all the tips and advice. I'll make good use of that list of "fruitful sevens", and hopefully get really good at four large because of that web page.

Didn't intend to get a scrabble debate going though.

[Darren Carter]

I've never actually played a game of scrabble in my life, am I missing much?

[Jon O'Neill]

I've never actually played a game of scrabble in my life, am I missing much?

No.

[Junaid Mubeen]

I've never actually played a game of scrabble in my life, am I missing much?

I only really play with family. My brother would give me some decent games in the past, but in the one time we've played in the last year I hammered him with some obscure words I learnt for Countdown. I also played my former tutor at uni and he gave up after 3 rounds, when I got DEUTZIA and ATONIES. So now my only enjoyment from Scrabble is using it to display my improved word power.

[Charlie Reams]

I've never actually played a game of scrabble in my life, am I missing much?

Yes. It's an awesome game. However, many people involved with the tournament scene are a bit tragic.

[Kai Laddiman]

I now have a cute and fluffy spreadsheet, complete with conditional formatting and answers, for the Fruitful 7s. Available on demand.

[Derek Hazell]

I now have a cute and fluffy spreadsheet, complete with conditional formatting and answers, for the Fruitful 7s. Available on demand.

No wonder you're so good if you sleep in Countdown bedsheets!

Always preferred duvets myself - saves you making the bed.

[David O'Donnell]

So the advice "just practise a lot" is quite a considered response.

I like the fact that, superficially, we state we are agreeing with each other yet cling on to our initial points. I really don't think, however considered, your answer really addresses what Jack asked at the start of this thread.

Corby - you told me it was an excellent resource when you sent me a copy of your game, wasn't it inspired by your observations of Conor's thought processes hence the name, "Conor's Brain"?

[Jon Corby]

Corby - you told me it was an excellent resource when you sent me a copy of your game, wasn't it inspired by your observations of Conor's thought processes hence the name, "Conor's Brain"?

Show me the email/quote. I was impressed by Conor's ability to do it. It doesn't mean it's an effective way to learn, and it certainy doesn't mean I did it.

This is boring. You're boring me.

[David O'Donnell]

Show me the email/quote. I was impressed by Conor's ability to do it. It doesn't mean it's an effective way to learn, and it certainy doesn't mean I did it.

This is boring. You're boring me.

Ignoring for the moment your rather pathetic appeal to ad hominem attacks and a request for evidence pertaining to around three years ago, I still have no idea why you are being so hideously obtuse about this point.

You designed a program with a stem feature which could only be accessed by a password you provided yet somehow this feature is of no/little/questionable value?

I don't understand the inconsistencies here, and as for boring you ... well, you are leaving me somewhat bemused and bewildered.

[Charlie Reams]

I like the fact that, superficially, we state we are agreeing with each other yet cling on to our initial points. I really don't think, however considered, your answer really addresses what Jack asked at the start of this thread.

I don't care whether we're agreeing with each other, but I did give a list of other things that you could do, and re-emphasised the old point that none of them are as useful as practice. Jack seems to be aware of this already but not everyone reading would be. Don't assume that because you're good and you did X, X is necessarily an efficient way to become good. There don't seem to be any players who got good by mostly studying. There are plenty of players who got good by mostly practising. Those are the facts; everything else is speculation.

pathetic appeal to ad hominem attacks

ironylol

[Jon Corby]

You designed a program with a stem feature which could only be accessed by a password you provided yet somehow this feature is of no/little/questionable value?

The window which did the word stemming showed you (a) ALL anagrams for any group of letters you cared to enter, in addition to (b) what you could add to those letters to make longer words. IMO (a) is absolute gold (which is why it was hidden from general view), (b) is a minor diversion which is occasionally interesting. In its default mode, my game only showed you a selection of "long words" from Dictionary Corner which would always include at least one max. I very nearly didn't even do that, as I saw having a definitive list of answers for a round, from the correct dictionary, as being exceptionally valuable.

[David O'Donnell]

Ah, crossed purposes still. I am not referring to stemming alone, I am merely stating, Charlie, that this thread seems to be about specific training methods rather than generalised practice (which is valuable, sure, but obvious).

I agree with you, Jon, but at least we are discussing specific training methods now and addressing the thread title.

I'll bore you no longer ... until the next time I post ... obviously.

[David Williams]

Probably I could look it up somewhere, but I was wondering about these 'stems'. For example, what's the longest word you can get out of TRAINED+A, TRAINED+R, and TRAINED+A+R? Is there a danger of missing the obvious?

[Richard Brittain]

Dod, what they're saying is that there is really no better method of improvement than just practising. I've never tried a stem list, but a week before the CoC I memorised a list of high probability anagrams like Julian Fell did, (candiest = distance, that sort of thing). It probably had 1000 words on it. It didn't help me at all. I'm not sure how useful stems are, but I think any of these contrived methods are of quite limited value, because a) You need to put an incredible amount of time into them for them to actually be of use in a game. b) It's incredibly boring.

Lately I've been playing Apterous quite intensely for fun, and I've improved a lot, simply because I've been missing words like 'spaniel' and 'aviator', then spotting them a few games later. Which makes me wonder why I didn't just practise for a few months before the C of C. But really, the best way to get good at Countdown is just practising on Apterous, unless you have the memory and willpower to put in 10 hours a day for half a year learning stems and anagrams, which I think is what Conor Travers did.

[Craig Beevers]

I like the fact that, superficially, we state we are agreeing with each other yet cling on to our initial points. I really don't think, however considered, your answer really addresses what Jack asked at the start of this thread.

I don't care whether we're agreeing with each other, but I did give a list of other things that you could do, and re-emphasised the old point that none of them are as useful as practice. Jack seems to be aware of this already but not everyone reading would be. Don't assume that because you're good and you did X, X is necessarily an efficient way to become good. There don't seem to be any players who got good by mostly studying. There are plenty of players who got good by mostly practising. Those are the facts; everything else is speculation.

pathetic appeal to ad hominem attacks

ironylol

Practice is very useful, up to a point. I mean how many times do you want to spot PRONATE or LEOTARD? Once you've seen the common words like those come up a few times you need to be more specific in your study to get a reasonable return.

[David O'Donnell]

Dod, what they're saying is that there is really no better method of improvement than just practising. I've never tried a stem list, but a week before the CoC I memorised a list of high probability anagrams like Julian Fell did, (candiest = distance, that sort of thing). It probably had 1000 words on it. It didn't help me at all. I'm not sure how useful stems are, but I think any of these contrived methods are of quite limited value, because a) You need to put an incredible amount of time into them for them to actually be of use in a game. b) It's incredibly boring.

Lately I've been playing Apterous quite intensely for fun, and I've improved a lot, simply because I've been missing words like 'spaniel' and 'aviator', then spotting them a few games later. Which makes me wonder why I didn't just practise for a few months before the C of C. But really, the best way to get good at Countdown is just practising on Apterous, unless you have the memory and willpower to put in 10 hours a day for half a year learning stems and anagrams, which I think is what Conor Travers did.

Yes, I know what they are saying but it doesn't change my point. It's not answering the question that was put in this thread.

[Derek Hazell]

Another important question - Why do most of the champions have "Series Champion" in their title, but Richard doesn't?

[Jon Corby]

Is this helping, Jack?

[JackHurst]

Is this helping, Jack?

The links that Charlie posted are very useful, the various debates about scrabble and such aren't as useful, but I don't really mind people having such discussions. I'll just have to scan the posts for useful stuff. I made this topic so that I'd hopefully find a few ways of helping myself to improve, which I managed to do. I didnt intend to get DoD so excited about your secret underground Anagram Dungeon. I did think I'd get more specific responses from people about how they practiced, but it seems most of you didnt do as much as i thought you might have to get so good.

I've never tried a stem list, but a week before the CoC I memorised a list of high probability anagrams like Julian Fell did, (candiest = distance, that sort of thing). It probably had 1000 words on it.

What were the 999 words besides GANDISEEG?

[David O'Donnell]

I've never tried a stem list, but a week before the CoC I memorised a list of high probability anagrams like Julian Fell did, (candiest = distance, that sort of thing). It probably had 1000 words on it.

What were the 999 words besides GANDISEEG?

LMAO, well SALONEEN is another one which just leaves 998 classics.

[Kai Laddiman]

I've never tried a stem list, but a week before the CoC I memorised a list of high probability anagrams like Julian Fell did, (candiest = distance, that sort of thing). It probably had 1000 words on it.

What were the 999 words besides GANDISEEG?

LMAO, well SALONEEN is another one which just leaves 998 classics.

The 998 he didn't have airtime to declare...

[Richard Brittain]

I've never tried a stem list, but a week before the CoC I memorised a list of high probability anagrams like Julian Fell did, (candiest = distance, that sort of thing). It probably had 1000 words on it.

What were the 999 words besides GANDISEEG?

Ha. I've long since destroyed the list (and put it in a shredder, so as to destroy this top secret resource which I don't want anyone else knowing about because it's so useful, while I pretend to people that it's completely useless), but I can remember a few off the top of my head.

In truth, the list probably has given me an advantage in a handful of games on Apterous, because I still remember a lot of the stuff on it. In some games a word from the list might have won me a round, but I doubt it's ever helped me in more than 2 rounds, and on average probably about 0.3 rounds per game, out of 15. I would estimate that this 1000-word list has improved my game by about 2%, so if you had the free time and desire to make a really long list, say of 20,000 words, and continuously memorise them all, then you could make a significant improvement to your game. But, the thing is, this list isn't going to be useful to you in life beyond playing Countdown, so making such lists is generally both boring and depressing.

Anyhow, these are some of the things on my list that I can remember right now, in case you're interested. They're all fairly easy to remember anagrams with a common suffix (-iest, -ier, -ing, -age, etc).

CANDIEST = DISTANCE
MOANIEST = AMNIOTES
ROADIEST = ASTEROID
COALIEST = SOCIETAL
BARTIEST = BIRETTAS
BOORIEST = ROBOTISE
ROOLIEST = OESTRIOL
LOADIEST = DIASTOLE
GORMIEST = ERGOTISM
MOANIER = MORAINE
LOADIER = DARIOLE
SOODIER = ODORISE
GLOARIES = SERAGLIO
COANDIES = DIOCESAN
KEETING = KITENGE
PEAPING = GENIPAP
CEETING = GENETIC
STOUTED = TESTUDO
CROANED = DRACONE
CONDAGE = DECAGON
DOITAGE = GODETIA
RONDABLE = BANDEROL
SOARABLE = BRESAOLA
BERATION = BARITONE
RERATION = ANTERIOR
RETUTION = RITENUTO
RENATION = ANOINTER
DENATION = ANOINTED

If any of these words come up in a game, I'm very likely to get them, because of the link in my memory. The above mini-list doesn't even include any nines, and there were a hell of a lot of nines on my list, probably over 400. Some of them were stupid anagrams like 'POAERIEST = PERIOSTEA' which is hard to remember anyway, but I wanted to get down all the high probability nines. But then I discovered that there are thousands of high probability nines.

[Kai Laddiman]

http://www.countdownwiki.com/Falseagrams

Thanks for boosting this RB

[Richard Brittain]

Ahh, I wasn't aware of that page. It took me long enough making the list, probably a few days, then another few days to memorise it all, so it's certainly easier if you have a list prepared for you. A lot of the words on that page weren't on my list, and seeing words which I've never even seen before, like 'narghile', makes me realise just how many 'high probability' words there are. Unfortunately I did actually destroy the list, after I'd memorised everything on it (not sure why I did this), but I can remember tonnes more and can add them to that page if you want.