May-June 2012 Tournament... you decide the format

[Adam Gillard]

Following the Dog Eat Dog tournament last year, I'd like to run another tournament in something that is not a high score format. I've made a shortlist of 5 formats for this year's tournament (probably to run in May and June, depending on the schedules of other tournaments etc.). To have your say in the format for this tournament, simply vote for A, B, C, D or E from the options below by Friday 30 March 2012 at 1.30pm. Note that Dogfight Letters Attack is an option (D) if people would like to have another tournament in that format.


The formats: 30 seconds per round and standard scoring unless otherwise stated.

Normal variant
Option A: Marathon (LLLLNLLLLNLLLLNLLLLNLLLLNC)
Option B: Masters (LNCLNCLNCLNCLNC)
Option C: Gevin's Delight (NNNNLNNNNLNNNLC); Scoring: Gevin rules; the same player picks all of the numbers and letters rounds

Dogfight variant
Option D: Dogfight Letters Attack (LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL); Time per round starts at 45s and decreases as the game progresses

Goatdown variant
Option E: Speedgoat Attack (LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL); 10s per round

[Martin Long]

I voted for Gevin's Delight, and would enter the tournament if it was this variant or Option A.

[Adam Gillard]

I voted for Gevin's Delight, and would enter the tournament if it was this variant or Option A.

I left the facility for people to change their vote, so that you can always go for your second choice if your first choice proves unpopular.

[Ben Wilson]

I went speedgoat but would love a Marathon tourney too.

[Andy Platt]

I would play any of these, no real preference for favourite except B

[Jamie French]

Its been ages since a numbers tourney, so Gevin's Delight for me.

[Matt Bayfield]

I'm not interested in any of the above (so haven't voted), but good luck Adam, hope it's a success.

[Andy Platt]

I'm not interested in any of the above (so haven't voted), but good luck Adam, hope it's a success.

Controversial. Would have thought you'd at least have a stab at the letters attack that speeds up

[Ian Volante]

Who's been rorting the votes in favour of numbers? Bah!

[Martin Long]

Good to see Gevin's Delight winning.

[Marcus Hares]

If 11 of the 15 rounds are going to be numbers I'm afraid I'll be passing on this one Adam, but as Matt said, hope it's a success!

[Gavin Chipper]

To be a Gevin's Delight, I think one player gets to pick all the rounds. Should be interesting!

[Adam Gillard]

To be a Gevin's Delight, I think one player gets to pick all the rounds. Should be interesting!

Good point; hadn't noticed that. All matches will be best of three at least, so everyone should get a chance at picking (if it alternates, which I think it does, but I'm not sure).

[Innis Carson]

To be a Gevin's Delight, I think one player gets to pick all the rounds. Should be interesting!

How is this fair?

[Mark Deeks]

I think he's saying that that's what the format is in Gevin's Delights. And I think he's right. I don't know why it's the case, but it seems to be the case.

[Ian Volante]

Feel free to change your votes now folks!

[Adam Gillard]

Yes, if you'd voted for Gevin's Delight assuming that the picks alternated between the two players each round (as I did when I shortlisted it), then you have the facility to change your vote should you wish. I don't think it'll be that awful though. It'll just be extra impressive if a match goes to Player 2 when Player 1 had all the picks in 2 of 3 games.

[Innis Carson]

Maybe if Gevin's Delight wins, we could do it based on aggregate score over 2 games, with one person picking each? Not sure that's perfectly fair either (the person picking the second game still has an advantage, I think) but it fixes the balance somewhat.

I'm sure it would be fun whatever way you do it and I'll happily take part, just it seems weird the way it is. Did you invent this format Gevin? If so, what was your reasoning for having it this way?

[Gavin Chipper]

Maybe if Gevin's Delight wins, we could do it based on aggregate score over 2 games, with one person picking each? Not sure that's perfectly fair either (the person picking the second game still has an advantage, I think) but it fixes the balance somewhat.

I'm sure it would be fun whatever way you do it and I'll happily take part, just it seems weird the way it is. Did you invent this format Gevin? If so, what was your reasoning for having it this way?

I didn't invent it. I presume Charlie did. I first noticed it when it appeared as a variant that no-one had played. I had a few guesses at what it might be and selected rounds accordingly but didn't guess right. Then it appeared as a duel. I think that's why the same player picks, so that the duellist can make all the picks.

[Matthew Tassier]

To be a Gevin's Delight, I think one player gets to pick all the rounds. Should be interesting!

How is this fair?

The FA Cup is not fair.
Fair is not necessarily automatically desirable. Fair is generally biassed towards the strongest players which can make for a predictable (dull?) tournament.

[Innis Carson]

To be a Gevin's Delight, I think one player gets to pick all the rounds. Should be interesting!

How is this fair?

The FA Cup is not fair.
Fair is not necessarily automatically desirable. Fair is generally biassed towards the strongest players which can make for a predictable (dull?) tournament.

Fair point and I agree, though I think this format would be fairly unpredictable anyway without this additional quirk, which is comparable to having the FA Cup played on a sloped pitch.

Supposing it could be done (I don't know if it can), would anyone else be interested in having the format amended to have alternating round selections similar to a normal 15 rounder? Or just keep it like it is?

[Gavin Chipper]

Supposing it could be done (I don't know if it can), would anyone else be interested in having the format amended to have alternating round selections similar to a normal 15 rounder? Or just keep it like it is?

It depends on what you mean by amend the format. There's no reason why you can't have the tournament with alternating round selection (depending on how binding and rigid the poll is - if Gevin's Delight does ultimately win, there could be a separate amendment poll). Last time I checked (admittedly ages ago), Gevin's Delight wasn't available from the drop-down anyway, so it would be no more effort to do it that way - it's just that Apterous wouldn't recognise it as a particular format. Either way is open to human error in the round selection process.

Unless you mean amend the format with the name "Gevin's Delight" in which case I don't think you can change a format without wiping out previous games/records on it, and I'm not sure there's any need to go that far anyway.

[Matthew Tassier]

The FA Cup is not fair.
Fair is not necessarily automatically desirable. Fair is generally biassed towards the strongest players which can make for a predictable (dull?) tournament.

Fair point and I agree, though I think this format would be fairly unpredictable anyway without this additional quirk, which is comparable to having the FA Cup played on a sloped pitch.

Did Yeovil's old sloped pitch not add something? No league team used to relish being drawn away there.

[Ian Volante]

If we're going to vote for a silly format like that, then I'm fully in support of its full quota of silliness rather than removing the most interesting aspect of it!

[Adam Gillard]

As it turns out, Gevin's Delight is not currently on the list of formats in the Tourney Creator. I asked Charlie about setting up a tournament in a custom format and he said he could add a format to the Tourney Creator for me. If Gevin's Delight wins this poll, we could have a further discussion / poll as to whether it should be made a custom format so that rounds are picked alternately by each of the two players. Feel free to discuss it further now, of course.

[Ian Volante]

I'd rather have it warts and all I like the skewedness of it.

[Martin Long]

I think "one player picking the rounds" is a very interesting twist to the Gevins Delight tournament. I would be for the tournament to be played in such a way. If Gevins Delight is chosen for this tournament, I will return to apterous to play it.

[Innis Carson]

I guess it could be fun to have a deliberately slightly silly tournament and see what happens.

[Adam Gillard]

Cool, dudes. Sounds like a plan. Will have to wait for the poll to close before confirming, though.

[John Gillies]

If Gevin's Delight wins and we are having a

slightly silly tournament

what would people think about allowing the lower ranked player to pick all the selections in a (probably futile) attempt to prevent people like me from receiving a sound rogering from 4-large and 6-small experts?
Would this just be too silly?

[Steve Balog]

I'd comment on that but as a lower ranked player who is way, way better at numbers than letters with a vastly preferred numbers selection,

It's not 4L or 6S at least

[Adam Gillard]

If Gevin's Delight wins and we are having a

slightly silly tournament

what would people think about allowing the lower ranked player to pick all the selections in a (probably futile) attempt to prevent people like me from receiving a sound rogering from 4-large and 6-small experts?
Would this just be too silly?

I think this would be too silly. For one thing, there's no saying that a "lower ranked player" isn't better at numbers, or a specific numbers selection, than a higher ranked player. For another thing, it's not solely numbers rounds anyway. For yet another thing, I'm not in favour of any sort of bias / handicapping system in this already silly tournament and I don't think it would be practicable anyway. Basically I'm putting my foot down on this one ( ).

I'm not 100% sure, but if the games are played consecutively, then does the picker (i.e. the person who picks first) alternate? If not, then it will just have to be totally random.

[Adam Gillard]

Just over a week left to vote now, or to change your vote if you wish. Following the discussion about it, if 'Gevin's Delight' is the winning format, it will not be customised, i.e., in each game, one player will pick all of the rounds. Soon after the poll closes, I'll make a new tournament thread where people will be able to sign up.

[Adam Gillard]

So, the master pollsters have engaged in a marathon dogfight (as opposed to a speed goat attack), and I'm delighted to reveal that 50% have decided "I'd get shelving" (no, wait, that was a poll I ran on another forum). The divs' glee thing is of course 'Gevin's Delight', or, as reindeer call it, "The Giving Sled". The tournament (just to confirm, in an unaltered 'Gevin's Delight' format) will be knockout with random draws and no seedings, starting with best of 3 and increasing as the tournament progresses. Thus endeth this slightly silly announcement, in homage to a "slightly silly tournament" (Carson, Innis. 2012) that half of you voted for.

Look out for the new sign-up thread where you'll see the exciting and imaginative name for the tournament, along with (provisional) details of its schedule and some rules and clarifications (what fun!).

NB: The poll has now closed, even though the forum says it hasn't, because the forum is a bit behind the times.