Feature requests

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Matt Morrison
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Matt Morrison »

Charlie Reams wrote:
JackHurst wrote:Please can we have a twelve leaderboard, showing who has got the most twelves from hyper, hypergoat and hypertouch. Maybe a table with a column for each and a total.
I can happily confirm that Matt has a 12. Possibly more than one.
Haha, first time I read this I thought it was a joke about my penis. I think after a couple of reads you probably mean a 12-letter word, and Bayfield.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Matt Morrison wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
JackHurst wrote:Please can we have a twelve leaderboard, showing who has got the most twelves from hyper, hypergoat and hypertouch. Maybe a table with a column for each and a total.
I can happily confirm that Matt has a 12. Possibly more than one.
Haha, first time I read this I thought it was a joke about my penis. I think after a couple of reads you probably mean a 12-letter word, and Bayfield.
But you do have more than one penis?
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Charlie Reams
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

Matt Morrison wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote:
JackHurst wrote:Please can we have a twelve leaderboard, showing who has got the most twelves from hyper, hypergoat and hypertouch. Maybe a table with a column for each and a total.
I can happily confirm that Matt has a 12. Possibly more than one.
Haha, first time I read this I thought it was a joke about my penis. I think after a couple of reads you probably mean a 12-letter word, and Bayfield.
Here's a big tip for enjoying my posts: if you think it might be a penis joke, it definitely is.
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Ian Volante
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ian Volante »

Charlie Reams wrote: Here's a big tip
Very nice.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

Ian Volante wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote: Here's a big tip
Very nice.
Thanks, I can almost see yours in that photo.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ian Volante »

Charlie Reams wrote:
Ian Volante wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote: Here's a big tip
Very nice.
Thanks, I can almost see yours in that photo.
That's it in my hand.
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JackHurst
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Re: Feature requests

Post by JackHurst »

I have a great new Idea, called capture the flags.

Basically, every word valid in the standard dictionary has a flag. The user who has declared that word the most has the flag for that word. Each flag has its own count, which is the number of times the person who owns that flag has declared it. If a flag has a tied flag count, the user in the tie who declared that word first is the owner of the flag. If a word is pencilled in by two players in the same round, they share the flag up until the point where one of them declares the word again, thus earning the flag for themselves.

There could be a whole section of the website for this flag nonsense. Here are come suggested sections:

Flag leaderboard- Lists the top 25 users with most flag in order (although this would just be an item leaderboard, but it would fit to have it in the flag section anyway)

Users own section- Each user has their own section, telling them how many flags they have, showing them how many times they have declared.

Users steal/loss section- Shows each user flags they have recently stolen from other users and of course flags they have recently had stolen from themself. Also, possibly some sort of box which shows you flags that you are close to stealing, and flags that you are close he having stolen.

General steal/loss section- Shows the most recent steals, showing who got the flag from who

Flag stats- Any other interesting stuff relating to flag, such flags owned for the longest period of time, flags owned for the shortest period of time, flags with the highest flag count, flag worths pinching, etc.

Any comments?

Also, if you really wanted to make some serious dosh, you could charge Adam Gillard for using this feature, because I think he would fucking love it and would be prepared to pay loads to be part of it.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ryan Taylor »

JackHurst wrote:I have a great new Idea, called capture the flags.

Basically, every word valid in the standard dictionary has a flag. The user who has declared that word the most has the flag for that word. Each flag has its own count, which is the number of times the person who owns that flag has declared it. If a flag has a tied flag count, the user in the tie who declared that word first is the owner of the flag. If a word is pencilled in by two players in the same round, they share the flag up until the point where one of them declares the word again, thus earning the flag for themselves.

There could be a whole section of the website for this flag nonsense. Here are come suggested sections:

Flag leaderboard- Lists the top 25 users with most flag in order (although this would just be an item leaderboard, but it would fit to have it in the flag section anyway)

Users own section- Each user has their own section, telling them how many flags they have, showing them how many times they have declared.

Users steal/loss section- Shows each user flags they have recently stolen from other users and of course flags they have recently had stolen from themself. Also, possibly some sort of box which shows you flags that you are close to stealing, and flags that you are close he having stolen.

General steal/loss section- Shows the most recent steals, showing who got the flag from who

Flag stats- Any other interesting stuff relating to flag, such flags owned for the longest period of time, flags owned for the shortest period of time, flags with the highest flag count, flag worths pinching, etc.

Any comments?

Also, if you really wanted to make some serious dosh, you could charge Adam Gillard for using this feature, because I think he would fucking love it and would be prepared to pay loads to be part of it.
I've got an even better idea. This one's for the forum. We should have a 'flag' button so we can flag posts like this for being spammy.

Edit: Oh, we do? I'm on it.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Jon O'Neill »

JackHurst wrote:I have a great new Idea, called capture the flags.

Basically, every word valid in the standard dictionary has a flag. The user who has declared that word the most has the flag for that word. Each flag has its own count, which is the number of times the person who owns that flag has declared it. If a flag has a tied flag count, the user in the tie who declared that word first is the owner of the flag. If a word is pencilled in by two players in the same round, they share the flag up until the point where one of them declares the word again, thus earning the flag for themselves.

There could be a whole section of the website for this flag nonsense. Here are come suggested sections:

Flag leaderboard- Lists the top 25 users with most flag in order (although this would just be an item leaderboard, but it would fit to have it in the flag section anyway)

Users own section- Each user has their own section, telling them how many flags they have, showing them how many times they have declared.

Users steal/loss section- Shows each user flags they have recently stolen from other users and of course flags they have recently had stolen from themself. Also, possibly some sort of box which shows you flags that you are close to stealing, and flags that you are close he having stolen.

General steal/loss section- Shows the most recent steals, showing who got the flag from who

Flag stats- Any other interesting stuff relating to flag, such flags owned for the longest period of time, flags owned for the shortest period of time, flags with the highest flag count, flag worths pinching, etc.

Any comments?

Also, if you really wanted to make some serious dosh, you could charge Adam Gillard for using this feature, because I think he would fucking love it and would be prepared to pay loads to be part of it.
nah :evil: :evil: :evil: :ugeek: :ugeek:
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Jimmy Gough »

How about a game where each person plays a different variant? E.g. I'm sick of Innis raping me so if I could play goat vs him playing normal or something like that it'd be cool. You could do things like touch vs goat. Just an idea, dunno if it would be difficult to implement and stuff but I thought I'd throw it out to see if anyone else thought it'd be good.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ben Wilson »

Jimmy Gough wrote:How about a game where each person plays a different variant? E.g. I'm sick of Innis raping me so if I could play goat vs him playing normal or something like that it'd be cool.
So basically goat where the lowest-rated player picks every round?

All joking aside, that's actually a pretty cool idea.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Matt Morrison »

Ben Wilson wrote:
Jimmy Gough wrote:How about a game where each person plays a different variant? E.g. I'm sick of Innis raping me so if I could play goat vs him playing normal or something like that it'd be cool.
So basically goat where the lowest-rated player picks every round?

All joking aside, that's actually a pretty cool idea.
Yeah I think it's a great idea too - but Ben, I think "goat where one player picks all the time" is only half of what Jimmy means, as let's face it, Innis would still be whooping him/you/me/all of us that way.
I think to balance it out into a competitive match Innis would need the 9th letter picked for him as usual, but then the 9th letter is hidden for Jimmy and he gets to pick it.
Normal vs Goat would (at a guess) be a bitch for Charlie to program but Normal vs. Touch would (at a guess) be easy as fuck, as they'd both get the same letters but Jimmy can change one and Innis can't.
Maxes and alternates could only really apply to one of the two players though of course, and so that makes record games nigh-on impossible to track.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Adam Gillard »

JackHurst wrote:I have a great new Idea, called capture the flags.
...
Also, if you really wanted to make some serious dosh, you could charge Adam Gillard for using this feature, because I think he would fucking love it and would be prepared to pay loads to be part of it.
I think you've misjudged me both in spendthrift-ness and in stats-obsessed-ness (I didn't even fork out the extra £5 for Superstats). I don't think this feature would add much to the data and items that are already available. Pencil-mining is one thing - it may take a while to get the letters you need for a word once, but flag-capturing would require countless mind-numbing iterations to get an item that wouldn't be highly sought-after even by pencil-miners like myself and Bayfield (conjecturing). I wouldn't enjoy "stealing" a flag as much as getting a pencil.
(Here's some advice for screening my posts: if I say something like the last 3 words there, it definitely isn't a penis joke, just I couldn't think of a less ambiguous way of wording it).
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Adam Gillard wrote:I didn't even fork out the extra £5 for Superstats
I'm saying nothing!
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Adam Gillard »

Ryan Taylor wrote:I'm saying nothing!
Yes, nothing well said.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Jimmy Gough »

Matt Morrison wrote:
Ben Wilson wrote:
Jimmy Gough wrote:How about a game where each person plays a different variant? E.g. I'm sick of Innis raping me so if I could play goat vs him playing normal or something like that it'd be cool.
So basically goat where the lowest-rated player picks every round?

All joking aside, that's actually a pretty cool idea.
Yeah I think it's a great idea too - but Ben, I think "goat where one player picks all the time" is only half of what Jimmy means, as let's face it, Innis would still be whooping him/you/me/all of us that way.
I think to balance it out into a competitive match Innis would need the 9th letter picked for him as usual, but then the 9th letter is hidden for Jimmy and he gets to pick it.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I think. If you mean we have different 9th letters (mine picked, Innis's a random) then yeah. I'm glad you think it's a good idea as well.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Kirk Bevins »

A diamond attack? That's a conundrum attack where all conundrums given are of difficulty 10? A great learning tool for those hard conundrums.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

Jimmy Gough wrote:How about a game where each person plays a different variant? E.g. I'm sick of Innis raping me so if I could play goat vs him playing normal or something like that it'd be cool. You could do things like touch vs goat. Just an idea, dunno if it would be difficult to implement and stuff but I thought I'd throw it out to see if anyone else thought it'd be good.
It's not quite feasible in the way you suggest, there's just too much code that assumes basic things like one variant per game or that both players have the same max. However, I wouldn't be unamenable to some kind of fox-and-hound variant where the two players were trying to accomplish different things, and their scores are normalised so to be out of 10 or whatever (a la Stepdown), if anyone wanted to devise such a thing.
Kirk Bevins wrote:A diamond attack? That's a conundrum attack where all conundrums given are of difficulty 10? A great learning tool for those hard conundrums.
The problem is that expecting a hard one makes it a lot easier to get it. For example if the shuffle is MINGCAROR and I'm expecting a diamond, I'm not going to both checking -ING. That kind of difficulty feedback loop is undesirable IMO.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Kirk Bevins »

Charlie Reams wrote: The problem is that expecting a hard one makes it a lot easier to get it. For example if the shuffle is MINGCAROR and I'm expecting a diamond, I'm not going to both checking -ING. That kind of difficulty feedback loop is undesirable IMO.
So? I knew ROVINGERA wasn't going to be -ING nor OVERGRAIN. I still didn't solve it. If someone is in the finals etc then they're going in with a "this is gonna be a 7, 8, 9 or 10 style conundrum" attitude and so practising them beforehand is gonna help, surely. Admittedly it might not help your hardness rating scale as more and more people solve it but it would certainly be good for practice.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

Kirk Bevins wrote:
Charlie Reams wrote: The problem is that expecting a hard one makes it a lot easier to get it. For example if the shuffle is MINGCAROR and I'm expecting a diamond, I'm not going to both checking -ING. That kind of difficulty feedback loop is undesirable IMO.
So? I knew ROVINGERA wasn't going to be -ING nor OVERGRAIN. I still didn't solve it. If someone is in the finals etc then they're going in with a "this is gonna be a 7, 8, 9 or 10 style conundrum" attitude and so practising them beforehand is gonna help, surely. Admittedly it might not help your hardness rating scale as more and more people solve it but it would certainly be good for practice.
Yep, it's a fair point. I wouldn't rule it out altogether.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Kirk Bevins wrote:A diamond attack? That's a conundrum attack where all conundrums given are of difficulty 10? A great learning tool for those hard conundrums.
Yes, why not strip back the DNA of Countdown a little further and take away any element of surprise for fans of the show and apterous players by incorporating every hard conundrum into a diamond attack, thereby further rewarding the obsessive player who has the time and energy to sit at their computer all day absorbing every possible answer, thus making them even more robotised than they already are. Let's eradicate the Peter Godwins and Nikki Sellars of this world and focus totally on young geeky males. The more you dehumanize apterous the worse it gets IMO.

When you say a great learning tool for those hard conundrums Kirk, a learning tool for who and for what purpose?
Your Countdown days are over, so by requesting this feature i can only assume its so you can soak all the answers up and wipe the floor with people even more than you already do. And of course, future contestants of the show will practice and practice every diamond conundrum going, making the quarter-finals a non-event by buzzing in after 0.8 seconds and making any chance of a dramatic finale to a show impossible.

If it has to happen then so be it, but don't be surprised to see future series of the show made up of over-30s only. And you guys wonder why there's no chance of a C of C? It's laughable if not tragic. Has apterous killed Countdown? No - it's slowly killing itself.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Robert Baxter »

Welcome back, Damian Eadie! :D

Now just 1...or 2 questions.

Why don't you want to do COC14?
Will there be a supreme Cham 2

RW quote "Supreme Championship happens every 32 Series."
Contestant: Continent please, Rachel.
Rachel: Y.
Contestant: Because I want one!

For more info, see http://wiki.apterous.org/User:The_Doctor , and don't have a go at me a the F1 drivers series.

The 86th postingest forummer.

And I'm a :ugeek:.
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Ian Volante
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ian Volante »

D Eadie wrote:
Kirk Bevins wrote:A diamond attack? That's a conundrum attack where all conundrums given are of difficulty 10? A great learning tool for those hard conundrums.
If it has to happen then so be it, but don't be surprised to see future series of the show made up of over-30s only. And you guys wonder why there's no chance of a C of C? It's laughable if not tragic. Has apterous killed Countdown? No - it's slowly killing itself.
Welcome back Damian! Possibly a little harsh on Apterous, there are still quite a few of us here that just play for the pleasure of the occasional win over one of the super-players. I've got better things to do with my time than learning fruitful sevens or whatever, 3,000 games notwithstanding...

In other news, nice to see Blackpool FC doing well, and even Blackpool Panthers are still in the RL play-offs! Strange days.
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Graeme Cole
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Graeme Cole »

D Eadie wrote:If it has to happen then so be it, but don't be surprised to see future series of the show made up of over-30s only.
I don't know how seriously that's being considered, or if I speak for everyone here, but I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that or anything like it. For me it would be one of the worst things that could happen to the show.

It wouldn't have much effect on me personally - I'm 27, so it's not as if I'd have long to wait. But one thing that made Countdown stand out when I watched it as a child was that unlike pretty much every other game show, children as young as eight, through to teenagers, students, young and middle-aged adults and pensioners were treated equally and would play against each other on a level playing field. As one of those young (-ish) geeky males, the emphasis on aptitude rather than arbitrary barriers like age or anything else appeals as much to me now as it did then. Remove that element and, in my opinion, you've removed something that makes Countdown unique and puts it among the greatest game shows of all time.

I'm a newbie on this forum (it's already struck me that this is perhaps the wrong thread for this discussion, so moderators feel free to move it), so I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the work you've done on the show over the years to make it what it is, and will no doubt continue to do in the future. I look forward to applying one day and hopefully winning one of those coveted teapots. :-)
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Liam Tiernan »

Graeme Cole wrote:
D Eadie wrote:If it has to happen then so be it, but don't be surprised to see future series of the show made up of over-30s only.
I don't know how seriously that's being considered, or if I speak for everyone here, but I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that or anything like it. For me it would be one of the worst things that could happen to the show.

It wouldn't have much effect on me personally - I'm 27, so it's not as if I'd have long to wait. But one thing that made Countdown stand out when I watched it as a child was that unlike pretty much every other game show, children as young as eight, through to teenagers, students, young and middle-aged adults and pensioners were treated equally and would play against each other on a level playing field.
I think the point Damian is making is that it's no longer a level playing field. Regular 40/50 point victory margins don't make for good TV.
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Graeme Cole
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Graeme Cole »

Liam Tiernan wrote:I think the point Damian is making is that it's no longer a level playing field. Regular 40/50 point victory margins don't make for good TV.
That's a good point about whether it makes entertaining television, but I was using "level playing field" to refer to equality of opportunity rather than equality of ability. Prospective contestants practising before going on the show is nothing new, whether it's by watching at home, playing the board game or, in later years, a computer game.

I accept that the geeky male stereotype has more than a grain of truth in it, and of course every series is going to have a few people who've played thousands of apterous games and score near-perfect games every time, but I say fair play to them. Any artificial means of trying to change that, such as an age restriction, seems wrong to me. If only every contestant knew about apterous before they applied, the general standard would certainly improve and perhaps there would be more close, high-scoring games.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Gavin Chipper »

D Eadie wrote:
Kirk Bevins wrote:A diamond attack? That's a conundrum attack where all conundrums given are of difficulty 10? A great learning tool for those hard conundrums.
Yes, why not strip back the DNA of Countdown a little further and take away any element of surprise for fans of the show and apterous players by incorporating every hard conundrum into a diamond attack, thereby further rewarding the obsessive player who has the time and energy to sit at their computer all day absorbing every possible answer, thus making them even more robotised than they already are. Let's eradicate the Peter Godwins and Nikki Sellars of this world and focus totally on young geeky males. The more you dehumanize apterous the worse it gets IMO.

When you say a great learning tool for those hard conundrums Kirk, a learning tool for who and for what purpose?
Your Countdown days are over, so by requesting this feature i can only assume its so you can soak all the answers up and wipe the floor with people even more than you already do. And of course, future contestants of the show will practice and practice every diamond conundrum going, making the quarter-finals a non-event by buzzing in after 0.8 seconds and making any chance of a dramatic finale to a show impossible.

If it has to happen then so be it, but don't be surprised to see future series of the show made up of over-30s only. And you guys wonder why there's no chance of a C of C? It's laughable if not tragic. Has apterous killed Countdown? No - it's slowly killing itself.
I doubt the diamond attack would make that much difference when you consider Apterous as a whole and I was under the impression that you were fine about that.

The nutter's back! 8-)
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Re: Feature requests

Post by JackHurst »

Don't like the idea of a diamond attack because it means the hardest conundrums are no longer the hardest if they can be targeted and learned quickly so that when they come up you nail them in 0.9 seconds or whatever.

I also don't like the idea of only players over 30, as it would mean that you are missing out on young eye candy such as myself winning the hearts of the front row 60+ babes :P
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

D Eadie wrote:If it has to happen then so be it, but don't be surprised to see future series of the show made up of over-30s only.
Would you be axing all under-30s who practised obsessively with apterous to get good, including those on the programme's payroll?
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Chris Davies »

Liking the new arrangment of links in the top right corner of the website when logged in, but when clicking on your name it may be easy to miss and accidentally click 'Logout', so maybe the logout link ought to trigger a Javascript function (or something else) to say 'Are you sure you want to logout'? Just a thought!
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Charlie Reams wrote:
D Eadie wrote:If it has to happen then so be it, but don't be surprised to see future series of the show made up of over-30s only.
Would you be axing all under-30s who practised obsessively with apterous to get good, including those on the programme's payroll?
Yawn.

Watch this space. If it goes too far for my liking, i'll have every ITV lawyer crawling over this place with a view to closing it down. If its a war you want, just let me know. I've always tried to work hand in hand with apterous and all its means, but there comes a point when enough is enough. Over to you Charlie. The C4C forum is safe as houses, can't be touched, can't be influenced or stopped at all, but apterous, its a different kettle of fish. Like i said, if it means under 30's are barred from the show then so be it. Pointless argument to bang on about people on the payroll. At one point every member of the production team was willing to contribute to this site, now none of them are. Over to you.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Oh come on...they were playing Chelsea after all.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

Chris Davies wrote:Liking the new arrangment of links in the top right corner of the website when logged in, but when clicking on your name it may be easy to miss and accidentally click 'Logout', so maybe the logout link ought to trigger a Javascript function (or something else) to say 'Are you sure you want to logout'? Just a thought!
Ha, I actually moved it because I kept clicking it on the sidebar when I was trying to hit Settings. But yes, good idea, and done.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Liam Tiernan »

Graeme Cole wrote: If only every contestant knew about apterous before they applied, the general standard would certainly improve
To what end, Graeme? Like most fans of Countdown, I liked watching because I could play along at home, feeling pleased whenever I matched or beat a contestant, or kicking myself whenever I missed something obvious. That playability factor is probably one of the main reasons for the shows longevity. Take that away, push the standard beyond the reach of the ordinary viewer, and the show is history. While there has always been "prospective contestants practising before going on the show", they've tended to be the exception rather than the rule. Seven or eight octochamps wiping the floor with "cannon fodder" may make for an exciting final week, but a boring series. When was the last time a game went to a crucial conundrum? Two months ago. Daniels' average margin of victory during his octorun? 52. Biggest margin? 93. After a certain point, you can't help but squirm in sympathy for the poor guys in the challengers chair. Start making decent contestants look stupid, or worse still, humiliated, and more viewers are going to switch off. So I can certainly see Damians' point of view here. What surprises me is that so many people on this forum can't. Has apterous killed Countdown? isn't a joke anymore. The answer is probably: not yet, but it might.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Gavin Chipper wrote:I doubt the diamond attack would make that much difference when you consider Apterous as a whole and I was under the impression that you were fine about that.

The nutter's back! 8-)
Gav your linking to something completely unrelated, but then again i think you probably knew that. Of course it makes a difference. Everybody knows the conundrums in the finals are tougher, so by having an apterous feature that targets just those tough conundrums sort of spoils things IMO. It's not for me to tell Charlie how to run his site, i'm just wary of things getting stale if everything is stripped down to the bones in the name of 'awesome learning tools'.

PS - i'm not 'back' at all. The fact that the apterous forum isn't stand alone and links to a Countdown forum has nothing to do with me. I've merely commented on an apterous issue as a paying subscriber and won't be making posts on the C4C part of the forum whatsoever, and the fact you've popped up with one of your "oh but you said this in another thread" links only serves to remind me why.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ryan Taylor »

Only one thing for it. Nasty conundrums.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Kirk Bevins »

D Eadie wrote: Yes, why not strip back the DNA of Countdown a little further and take away any element of surprise for fans of the show and apterous players by incorporating every hard conundrum into a diamond attack, thereby further rewarding the obsessive player who has the time and energy to sit at their computer all day absorbing every possible answer, thus making them even more robotised than they already are.
Why does it remove elements of surprise? Chris and I both worked hard for Countdown and there was still surprise as neither knew who was going to win - it was a real close contest. On the other hand, you have people who practise for hours on end and don't get that much better so even if they've seen ICHNEUMON hundreds of times they might still fail to spot it, particularly nervous sat in the Countdown chair on a crucial conundrum.
D Eadie wrote: Let's eradicate the Peter Godwins and Nikki Sellars of this world and focus totally on young geeky males. The more you dehumanize apterous the worse it gets IMO.
Again, just an opinion here. I've had so many people come up to me saying "have you seen that new champion, he's well good, Daniel I think his name is". It doesn't matter to some that the champions chair consists of young geeky males, they are impressed with the standard of some players. I remember when I was much younger, I loved watching Fell and co. It was boring seeing a close contest when they just got 5s and 6s all episode. The Peter Godwins and Nikki Sellars will always be there - those that have watched Countdown and 'practised' for 28 years - but you'll now have other people who want to practice via other means.
D Eadie wrote: When you say a great learning tool for those hard conundrums Kirk, a learning tool for who and for what purpose?
Your Countdown days are over, so by requesting this feature i can only assume its so you can soak all the answers up and wipe the floor with people even more than you already do. And of course, future contestants of the show will practice and practice every diamond conundrum going, making the quarter-finals a non-event by buzzing in after 0.8 seconds and making any chance of a dramatic finale to a show impossible.
A learning tool for everyone, if they decide to a) use it and b) use it wisely to aid their game. As I said above, some people have practised for hours and still are missing conundrums or are not getting them in 0.8 seconds. I'm a perfectionist and I like winning. I've found something which I can be top of the tree at so it only makes sense to me to want to continue to improve. Phil Taylor inspired me to put the hours in and be the best. Sure, he's making a living out of his choice of talent and mine's more of a hobby but I want to pursue it and be the best I can be. I've only won one CO-event so that just shows you that it's anybody's game. I missed SHIPWRECK to beat Richard Priest, who got it on 11 seconds, and so I lost COLEI. That's what a bit of pressure does to you. People wouldn't be buzzing in 0.8 seconds all the time and it would still be an exciting contest.

D Eadie wrote: And you guys wonder why there's no chance of a C of C? It's laughable if not tragic.
So many ask me when the next C of C is going to be and they enjoy Countdown, despite your views that people are going to be put off by it. Maybe some are, but the ones I speak to are well impressed by the Daniels, the Eoins etc. As you know from Apterous, the C of C isn't a forgone conclusion and it's anybody's game. A lot of the games would be mighty close and a high standard and people would enjoy them (several commented that they enjoyed Me vs Chris). Taylor has dominated darts for 20 years and only now are people saying that it's getting boring that he's winning everything, while others are saying it's exciting and they want to see how long he can go on for or how many 9 darters he can hit. You're always going to get mixed opinions from people but some might get bored of the young talent coming off the production line and others are excited by the stupid words offered and want to see how good people can get.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Graeme Cole »

Liam Tiernan wrote:
Graeme Cole wrote: If only every contestant knew about apterous before they applied, the general standard would certainly improve
To what end, Graeme? Like most fans of Countdown, I liked watching because I could play along at home, feeling pleased whenever I matched or beat a contestant, or kicking myself whenever I missed something obvious. That playability factor is probably one of the main reasons for the shows longevity. Take that away, push the standard beyond the reach of the ordinary viewer, and the show is history. While there has always been "prospective contestants practising before going on the show", they've tended to be the exception rather than the rule. Seven or eight octochamps wiping the floor with "cannon fodder" may make for an exciting final week, but a boring series. When was the last time a game went to a crucial conundrum? Two months ago. Daniels' average margin of victory during his octorun? 52. Biggest margin? 93. After a certain point, you can't help but squirm in sympathy for the poor guys in the challengers chair. Start making decent contestants look stupid, or worse still, humiliated, and more viewers are going to switch off. So I can certainly see Damians' point of view here. What surprises me is that so many people on this forum can't. Has apterous killed Countdown? isn't a joke anymore. The answer is probably: not yet, but it might.
I can see Damian's point of view. You're right, if the whole thing were to degenerate into a new big hitter coming along every eight games and demolishing the opposition then it'd be too predictable, and there's certainly been an element of that in recent months. But what are you supposed to say to the Patis and the Monaghans? Reject them for being too good? Granted, it'd be a hell of a thing to be able to claim ("They told me I was too awesome to go on Countdown"), but I don't think anyone would want that.

Reduce the maximum number of heat games you can play, say from eight to four? It'd increase contestant turnover and ensure the viewer sees new faces regularly, but I know they've reduced it to six before and it didn't catch on. Make a habit of asking contestants what they think that obscure word they've just declared means, to encourage learning language rather than memorising sequences of letters? Then what, do you disallow a valid word if they've no idea? What if they got rid of the winner-stays-on format altogether and went for a straight knockout structure? It'd mean you don't see the same player thrashing their opponents all week, but I'm guessing there are production reasons why such a format would be more difficult to make (contestant no-shows could derail things even more than they do currently). My point is that although none of these ideas are anywhere near perfect, IMHO any of them would be preferable to something as arbitrary as an age restriction.

Lastly, if I were in Charlie's shoes and I thought apterous was killing Countdown I'd close it. I'm sure none of us want that to happen. If it means development of apterous needs to head in the direction of it being a bit of fun, rather than a "learning tool", that seems a fair compromise. I'd be interested to hear what Charlie thinks about that.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Matt Morrison »

If I were in Charlie's shoes I'd double the subscription price and rape everyone for more cash while I still can before being an apterous member gets you banned from being on TV.

Also, how on earth do you distinguish between having fun, and learning? Learning is a subconscious action most of the time on apterous, to stop apterous being useful for Countdown you'd have to make it into a spot the difference puzzle or a competition to draw willies and hairy satchels or something.

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Re: Feature requests

Post by Graeme Cole »

Matt Morrison wrote:Also, how on earth do you distinguish between having fun, and learning? Learning is a subconscious action most of the time on apterous, to stop apterous being useful for Countdown you'd have to make it into a spot the difference puzzle or a competition to draw willies and hairy satchels or something.
Yes, the line between the two concepts is blurred if not nonexistent, but I can see why Damian would think a diamond conundrum attack feature (for example) is too far to one side and not the other.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Jon Corby »

Matt Morrison wrote:Also, how on earth do you distinguish between having fun, and learning?
You sound like a teacher. Heather is clearly rubbing off on you.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Kirk....have you finished yet?

In your speech there you say things like 'a lot of people come up to me', 'so many ask me' and 'several commented'. Do they form a queue outside your bedroom door or are these the people you meet on your world tour? If you can't see that having every difficult conundrum available to repeatedly practice over and over again on Apterous is a bad thing then you need to have a word with yourself and look at the bigger picture.

I read with some dismay on here all the fuss and flap about your ECLAMPSIA conundrum and as you know, i deliberately changed a conundrum for your final because i'd seen you answer it on Apterous just days before. I have done the same with Innis. In a bid to make the game as fair as possible to both players, i spend hours looking for new conundrums, new mixes, new twists, just to keep the thing fresh and challenging. If you think the wider public at large want to watch you and every other apterite trotting out stem words and 1 seconds conundrums with tedious regularity then you're very much mistaken my friend. If i suggest to ITV that we take a crew down to COLEI and record it for TV broadcasting, they'd laugh me out of the building, but according to you it's okay for Countdown to go in that direction because a few people have come up to you etc. You and a lot of the other guys are basically taking an anagram solving game and turning it into a memory contest. The one surviving geek-free part of the game i can have any control over (and i use the work geek in a non-offensive way) is setting the conundrums, particularly ones for the finals, but you want to spend weeks playing them over and over and over and over - what so you can pounce on a newbie in apterous and beat him 200-0 in a conundrum attack - in a bid to be the best you possibly can because Phil Taylor inspired you? I think i'm going to heave. What's the point in having hard conundrums in the finals if everyone under-30, with ample free time, no kids to look after, in some cases no job to go to, no house to run etc, can just hoover them all up into the mind ready to trot out on the show? You think it's a case of practise rewarding the player, i think it's a nonsense. Imagine if you were in the final and your opponent buzzed in after 1 second, getting a conundrum they happened to come across on apterous the night before.....do you not think it far better and fairer for it to be about anagram solving abilities? Well, obviously you don't, but i do think you need to see the bigger picture and consider why apterous exists, and that's because of the show it parodies. The show needs a healthy representation from all of the British public, not just young lads with 60 hours a week free to devote to playing apterous online.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ian Volante »

Jon Corby wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote:Also, how on earth do you distinguish between having fun, and learning?
You sound like a teacher. Heather is clearly rubbing off on you.
Dude, TMI.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

D Eadie wrote:are these the people you meet on your world tour?
Now that's a Feature Request.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Here's a few of my own feature requests, based on my own experiences. All written with the best of intentions and with the utmost respect to the man behind apterous (before anyone starts).

Anyone making trivial 'comments' on their own game, with the sole objective being to get some attention for their great performance should have their account terminated permanently. Things like 'i was really pleased with this because....' or 'i am very surprised nobody had this pencil' reek of self-aggrandisement. You know who you are, stop it immediately. Please.

Anyone winning the duel should automatically be barred from entering the duel the following day so that others get a chance. Also, the duel could be classified so that one day its for players rated 1500 plus only, then next day its for those under 1500 etc. Maybe mix this in with 'open' duels for all to take part in. For me, the monthly leaderboard is dated and anyone having a stinker on one particular day has no chance of winning it. You can win a duel by 50 points but only get 1 more duel point than your nearest rival, which is odd.

The 'find the 9 letter word from this selection' game in the chat lobby. It's not clever for series champions and Octochamps to unscramble ALERONSTI and type in RELATIONS in record time in order to score 3 pts. Everyone knows its relations or orientals, nobody cares, its very very very boring and show-offy. It's disturbing to read that '****** scored his 35678th point'. I'd be tempted to reset the accumulated totals to zero every now and then.

The teatime teaser thing. I don't like how it says 'Fred got it first, you have x seconds left'. Would be better IMO to keep it all a mystery until the time is up. Its a giveaway sometimes when you see floods of people answering correctly yet you can't find the answer. You know its got to be something easy so change your train of thought, stop over-complicating, then invariably get it.
I also think it should be limited to one guess per person, to prevent the spamming-esque guesses that distract others.

When apterous is lagging, as it sometimes does, it would be nice for those who've been on it all day to log off and let the newly-joined people have quality play-time.

I'd also have weekly high scores in all formats. Keep the existing records sure, but have weekly or monthly high scores so that everyone can try for their own little piece of glory.

Lastly, anyone nominating a max-game for GOTW should be suspended from apterous for at least a month, and anyone deliberately withholding an answer to a conundrum in order to facilitate an opponent's max game should be banned for life. And anyone whinging about their opponent 'spoiling' their max game should be executed.

Basically, i'm just asking you to ban Kirk Bevins. :mrgreen:
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Kirk Bevins »

D Eadie wrote:Kirk....have you finished yet?

In your speech there you say things like 'a lot of people come up to me', 'so many ask me' and 'several commented'. Do they form a queue outside your bedroom door or are these the people you meet on your world tour? If you can't see that having every difficult conundrum available to repeatedly practice over and over again on Apterous is a bad thing then you need to have a word with yourself and look at the bigger picture.
I'm just saying what I've experienced. I get to meet loads of new people as I travel a lot and when people mention me and Countdown they talk to me about it. Not sure why you have to resort to childish humour about coming up to my door etc. I've put on here what they've told me and I've clarified it by saying that may not be what the general public want to see (you may get letters from people saying they're pissed off with young lads etc) but I think I'm allowed to put across my viewpoint.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Ian Volante »

D Eadie wrote:Much stuff :mrgreen:
Sounds good, if a little harsh in places :) I especially agree with the Duel. Much as I love doing it every day (and the duel), it is like running a 5000m race against, erm, people that are much faster. This is why I like the idea of parallel comps to give us plebs lower down the rankings something to aim for, as discussed elsewhere (above?).
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Kirk Bevins »

D Eadie wrote: The show needs a healthy representation from all of the British public, not just young lads with 60 hours a week free to devote to playing apterous online.
Agreed - but you have that anyway. You see excellent players in all games/sports and they don't have to be young to put the hours in to practice. You can't turn round to Nadal and say he is ruining tennis for winning all the time.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Charlie Reams »

D Eadie wrote:Anyone making trivial 'comments' on their own game, with the sole objective being to get some attention for their great performance should have their account terminated permanently. Things like 'i was really pleased with this because....' or 'i am very surprised nobody had this pencil' reek of self-aggrandisement. You know who you are, stop it immediately. Please.
Haha, I have to say I haven't noticed it, but fair enough.
D Eadie wrote:Anyone winning the duel should automatically be barred from entering the duel the following day so that others get a chance. Also, the duel could be classified so that one day its for players rated 1500 plus only, then next day its for those under 1500 etc. Maybe mix this in with 'open' duels for all to take part in. For me, the monthly leaderboard is dated and anyone having a stinker on one particular day has no chance of winning it. You can win a duel by 50 points but only get 1 more duel point than your nearest rival, which is odd.
There's an on-going thread for ideas to revitalise the Duel for non-Kirks of this world, it's clearly an issue that needs addressing, although I don't think we need to do anything as drastic as banning people for being too good.
The 'find the 9 letter word from this selection' game in the chat lobby. It's not clever for series champions and Octochamps to unscramble ALERONSTI and type in RELATIONS in record time in order to score 3 pts. Everyone knows its relations or orientals, nobody cares, its very very very boring and show-offy. It's disturbing to read that '****** scored his 35678th point'. I'd be tempted to reset the accumulated totals to zero every now and then.
You're right, it is boring in some cases. I'd be open to ideas to improve this. Maybe each word can only appear 2 or 3 times? Something like that. I've also considered an option to hide the game altogether, since I know some people aren't interested and it's just spam for them.
The teatime teaser thing. I don't like how it says 'Fred got it first, you have x seconds left'. Would be better IMO to keep it all a mystery until the time is up. Its a giveaway sometimes when you see floods of people answering correctly yet you can't find the answer. You know its got to be something easy so change your train of thought, stop over-complicating, then invariably get it. I also think it should be limited to one guess per person, to prevent the spamming-esque guesses that distract others.
Fair enough. It could certainly be made an option to not see other people's guesses. Part of the problem is that, since it's just a chat channel, it's not easy to tell whether something's a guess or just someone chatting. I could filter out words using the right letters in the wrong order, which would be a start (and might lead to some amusing false positives).
When apterous is lagging, as it sometimes does, it would be nice for those who've been on it all day to log off and let the newly-joined people have quality play-time.
When it's lagging that's usually because either the database is overloaded or people are downloading the new applet, so logging out won't help. Once you're actually logged into the game, the bandwidth used by each person is pretty minimal.
I'd also have weekly high scores in all formats. Keep the existing records sure, but have weekly or monthly high scores so that everyone can try for their own little piece of glory.
We'll have monthly high scores once the apterous history series catches up with the present day, which should be before the end of the month. Even weekly high scores isn't a bad idea, although there's always a risk of dilution if you have too much of that stuff. What do other people think?
Lastly, anyone nominating a max-game for GOTW should be suspended from apterous for at least a month, and anyone deliberately withholding an answer to a conundrum in order to facilitate an opponent's max game should be banned for life. And anyone whinging about their opponent 'spoiling' their max game should be executed.
Execution seems a little mild. How about public flogging?
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Gavin Chipper »

D Eadie wrote:
Gavin Chipper wrote:I doubt the diamond attack would make that much difference when you consider Apterous as a whole and I was under the impression that you were fine about that.

The nutter's back! 8-)
Gav your linking to something completely unrelated, but then again i think you probably knew that. Of course it makes a difference. Everybody knows the conundrums in the finals are tougher, so by having an apterous feature that targets just those tough conundrums sort of spoils things IMO. It's not for me to tell Charlie how to run his site, i'm just wary of things getting stale if everything is stripped down to the bones in the name of 'awesome learning tools'.

PS - i'm not 'back' at all. The fact that the apterous forum isn't stand alone and links to a Countdown forum has nothing to do with me. I've merely commented on an apterous issue as a paying subscriber and won't be making posts on the C4C part of the forum whatsoever, and the fact you've popped up with one of your "oh but you said this in another thread" links only serves to remind me why.
It's not completely unrelated. My point is that I don't see why people practising for hours to become much better than "normal" contestants is fine, except for when it comes to conundrums, specifically the hard conundrums. It seems that you've jumped onto a very small and fairly arbitrary aspect of Apterous.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Kirk Bevins wrote: I'm just saying what I've experienced. I get to meet loads of new people as I travel a lot and when people mention me and Countdown they talk to me about it. Not sure why you have to resort to childish humour about coming up to my door etc. I've put on here what they've told me and I've clarified it by saying that may not be what the general public want to see (you may get letters from people saying they're pissed off with young lads etc) but I think I'm allowed to put across my viewpoint.
Kirk, stop taking everything so seriously. Of course i've resorted to childish humour, that was the whole point. I'm trying to lighten up the discussion. Whenever i post anything straight-facedly i get accused of being a moaning fart, but when i take the alternative stance and make a few jesty jibes you overreact. It's just that you made it sound as though hoards of people are flocking to give you their opinions on Countdown, when in reality it's probably about half a dozen or so. Oh and don't be fooled by what people say to you. For some folk, meeting a geezer off Countdown is the nearest they've ever been to coming across anyone famous, so if you told them their shit was rainbow-coloured you'd find in time that many of them would agree with you.
Kirk Bevins wrote:
D Eadie wrote: The show needs a healthy representation from all of the British public, not just young lads with 60 hours a week free to devote to playing apterous online.
Agreed - but you have that anyway. You see excellent players in all games/sports and they don't have to be young to put the hours in to practice. You can't turn round to Nadal and say he is ruining tennis for winning all the time.
I think you do have to be young to put hours in for apterous. Most of the guys on apterous nowadays, how many do their own laundry, cooking, shopping, work, make their own beds, parent etc ? Some of them are up until 4am. Let's not pretend it's the normal man in the street, because that's just being silly. The healthy representation i'm referring to is important and it's getting harder to maintain it. Not sure where you're going with the Nadal analogy. Tennis is a professional sport. I don't think younger players who spend the best years of their lives playing apterous aren't necessarily doing anything wrong or damaging, i just think your clamouring for diamond conundrum attacks just doesn't do anybody any good. So you learn them all, get the first diamond conundrum attack max, add another honour to your glory roll...........and then what? Everyone knows you're good Kirk, if not the best. You don't have to prove anything to anybody.
Get a record score in Hyper if you want a new challenge, step it up a little and play the big boys version of the game, there's plenty out there to chisel away at without the need for further molecular deconstruction of Countdown.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Gavin Chipper wrote: It's not completely unrelated. My point is that I don't see why people practising for hours to become much better than "normal" contestants is fine, except for when it comes to conundrums, specifically the hard conundrums. It seems that you've jumped onto a very small and fairly arbitrary aspect of Apterous.
There are 2 things a non-apterous player can have in their armoury. Good maths brains and good conundrum unscrambling brains. Apterous can't teach good maths, it provides a service, but with conundrums, people can memorise the selection and remember the answers. Everyone on apterous gets sleepsuit in 2 seconds flat nowadays, but a few months back nobody had a clue what it was and it had everyone foxed. That, is my point. Chris got that by sheer mental rearranging, working, digging it out, calculating, under pressure, it was wonderful to watch, a feat of brilliance, one of the highlights of the shows history, people gasped, marvelled, applauded, respected, doffed their caps in reverence. How about we toss all that off, give the apterous kids a 'great learning tool' and let them sit night after night after night playing all the diamond conundrum attacks, just so they can stay one step ahead of the game.

To think some of you guys are supposed to be fans of the show, i actually shake my head in disbelief.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Miriam Nussbaum »

D Eadie wrote:Most of the guys on apterous nowadays, how many do their own laundry, cooking, shopping, work, make their own beds, parent etc ? Some of them are up until 4am.
Probably true, but for what it's worth, 4 AM is 11 PM my time and I get the impression that many or most of the (rather few) other people who are on Apterous that late are also Americans.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by JackHurst »

Can you make it so the group chat doesnt go to the botton whilst your scrolling through it when anybody says somethign new, it makes it almost impossible to follow a quick conversation that you've not seen the start of.

Also, how about TALC CONUNDRUM ATTACK :P
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Matt Morrison »

JackHurst wrote:Can you make it so the group chat doesnt go to the botton whilst your scrolling through it when anybody says somethign new, it makes it almost impossible to follow a quick conversation that you've not seen the start of.
Just load up the latest chat log and read it. Chat logs are updated instantly. A lot easier than Charlie reprogramming Java's update/focus behaviour.
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Re: Feature requests

Post by Kirk Bevins »

D Eadie wrote:
To think some of you guys are supposed to be fans of the show, i actually shake my head in disbelief.
Because we have differing viewpoints doesn't mean we're not fans of the show. Some viewers love seeing young intelligent males get the conundrum in 1 second, some love a tight contest, some love it when people unscramble epitussle on 26 seconds and steal a win - all of these could make for great TV (although you'll probably know better than me, granted). I think the main issue is you want people to unscramble a word for the conundrum rather than just spot it through sheer practice. I blame all those Countdown board games.
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Jon O'Neill
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Re: Feature requests

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D Eadie wrote:I'd be tempted to reset the accumulated totals to zero every now and then.
For random people at random intervals.
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Jon O'Neill
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Re: Feature requests

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Kirk Bevins wrote:Some viewers love seeing young intelligent males get the conundrum in 1 second, some love a tight...
Stopped reading here. Thread has gone downhill.
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D Eadie
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Re: Feature requests

Post by D Eadie »

Kirk Bevins wrote:Because we have differing viewpoints doesn't mean we're not fans of the show. Some viewers love seeing young intelligent males get the conundrum in 1 second, some love a tight contest, some love it when people unscramble epitussle on 26 seconds and steal a win - all of these could make for great TV (although you'll probably know better than me, granted). I think the main issue is you want people to unscramble a word for the conundrum rather than just spot it through sheer practice. I blame all those Countdown board games.
The board games don't come with 10,000 conundrums. The QF's and beyond, to the best of my knowledge, have contained exclusive non-apterous conundrums and will do so as long as i can be arsed spending weeks trawling through wordlist and cross-referencing with apterous game logs. It's a ball-ache, i don't have to do it, but i do it in the name of keeping it fair so there can be no luck apportioned when it comes to the final round. It's rare the conundrum is crucial in a final, but when it is, i want it to be a new word or at least a word that hasn't been conundrummed to death online. That would be a flat finale and let down. Sure, the viewers wouldn't know, but i would, and that's enough. I think i understand your reasons though. Your apterous games with Innis, Chris etc often go down to crucial conundrums, and you know that you're going to get a hard one because they are graded to your rating - so by sponging them all up you can help to maintain your place at the top of the pile. If you're that bothered, ask Charlie for a list of diamond conundrums and read them to death. Yes, unscramble the conundrum, not spot it through sheer practice, because that sucks, and as i said before, not everbody has 60hrs a week spare to devote to a word game.
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Kirk Bevins
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Re: Feature requests

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D Eadie wrote: not everbody has 60hrs a week spare to devote to a word game.
Sure, I didn't have 60 hours spare when I was teaching (and won't when I start work next week either) but I'll keep playing. I was practising to go on Countdown whilst teaching and you still find the hours to practice as I don't like losing. Now Countdown is over for me, I want to win CO-events and I usually mess it up on the conundrum. I know my weaknesses and I'm tailoring my practice regime for those needs. I do take it far too seriously sometimes but that's just who I am - an obsessive.
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